206 réponses à ce sujet

[Praetor Knight]

Cauter wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

 I'm just glad they got Martin Sheen, he did an amazing job.

Martin Sheen did a great job, menacing, intimidating, persuasive, hidden and yet, helpful. 

i was thinking what if Willem Dafoe, not sure if i spelled his name right, had voiced TIM. his voice is and could've been awesome.

Sheen was great in that role, I think he fit well with the character.

I could picture Mr. Dafoe voice a spunky Salarian Elder from the Salarian Union (thinking Boondock Saints performance) or maybe a STG Commander.

Having Lance Henriksen return as Hackett would be awesome too.

[kmcd5722]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Considering that the Systems Alliance is not exactly a US in space, but rather a British East India Company in space, and Cerberus had been always "privately" funded even before it allegedly went "rogue", Cerberus may very well haven't gone "rogue" at all, and remains part of the Alliance. And in any case the Alliance has a lot more dealings with Cerberus than missions to stop them.

Click here for details.

I've considered this before, but it still never made much sense why, then, Kahoku was executed.  Did he learn something that he shouldn't have?  Did he learn that Cerberus was always with the Alliance?  I can't say, so I have always held out that, indeed, Cerberus did go rogue, and the Alliance is just going to let it happen.  And why all the experiments on humans?  Would the Alliance actually condone that, if indeed they could just deny everything and say Cerebus has gone rogue?

Maybe, but I think I am going to wait and see on this one.  All I know is that I hated Cerebus for the experiments they conducted in ME1 and ME2, as well as the novels.  

[jbblue05]

Why are  some people a 100% Cerberus was beehind the thresher maw attack on Akuze. 

I mean how can you not trust Corporal Toombs, heavily traumatized by the thrresher maw attack, hired mercenaries to slaughter ALLIANCE SCIENTISTS? 

It makes perfect sense Cerberus will destroy an Alliance Colony but save Terminus Colonies.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

kmcd5722 wrote...

I've considered this before, but it still never made much sense why, then, Kahoku was executed.  Did he learn something that he shouldn't have?  Did he learn that Cerberus was always with the Alliance?  I can't say, so I have always held out that, indeed, Cerberus did go rogue, and the Alliance is just going to let it happen.  And why all the experiments on humans?  Would the Alliance actually condone that, if indeed they could just deny everything and say Cerebus has gone rogue?

The Alliance has two faces in regards to Cerberus. They condemn them publicly and say they've gone rogue. This is the perfect situation for the Alliance. They will reap all of the benefits of Cerberus experiments while having to deal with none of the fallout.

Kahoku was sticking his nose into things he shouldn't have been. He may have been a high ranking Alliance officer, but he acted out of vengeance for his squad. He failed to realize some things in the galaxy are bigger than him.

[Zulu_DFA]

kmcd5722 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Considering that the Systems Alliance is not exactly a US in space, but rather a British East India Company in space, and Cerberus had been always "privately" funded even before it allegedly went "rogue", Cerberus may very well haven't gone "rogue" at all, and remains part of the Alliance. And in any case the Alliance has a lot more dealings with Cerberus than missions to stop them.

Click here for details.

I've considered this before, but it still never made much sense why, then, Kahoku was executed.  Did he learn something that he shouldn't have?  Did he learn that Cerberus was always with the Alliance?  I can't say, so I have always held out that, indeed, Cerberus did go rogue, and the Alliance is just going to let it happen.  And why all the experiments on humans?  Would the Alliance actually condone that, if indeed they could just deny everything and say Cerebus has gone rogue?

Maybe, but I think I am going to wait and see on this one.  All I know is that I hated Cerebus for the experiments they conducted in ME1 and ME2, as well as the novels.  

Kahoku was:

1) Disposable;
2) Poking his nose where he shouldn't, in spite of being encouraged not to;
3) Dealing with the enemy (Shadow Broker).


As for the experiments on Humans and would the Alliance condone it or not, read this, then think again of the Alliance as not a US in space, but as a British East India Company in space, and decide for yourself.

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

The Alliance has two faces in regards to Cerberus. They condemn them publicly and say they've gone rogue.
[/quote]
Correction:

Publicly they've never admitted Cerberus ever had anything to do with the Alliance. Kahoku uncovered that Cerberus was in fact an Alliance Black Ops organisation, which got him killed.
[/quote]

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

kmcd5722 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Considering that the Systems Alliance is not exactly a US in space, but rather a British East India Company in space, and Cerberus had been always "privately" funded even before it allegedly went "rogue", Cerberus may very well haven't gone "rogue" at all, and remains part of the Alliance. And in any case the Alliance has a lot more dealings with Cerberus than missions to stop them.

Click here for details.

I've considered this before, but it still never made much sense why, then, Kahoku was executed.  Did he learn something that he shouldn't have?  Did he learn that Cerberus was always with the Alliance?  I can't say, so I have always held out that, indeed, Cerberus did go rogue, and the Alliance is just going to let it happen.  And why all the experiments on humans?  Would the Alliance actually condone that, if indeed they could just deny everything and say Cerebus has gone rogue?

Maybe, but I think I am going to wait and see on this one.  All I know is that I hated Cerebus for the experiments they conducted in ME1 and ME2, as well as the novels.  

Kahoku was:

1) Disposable;
2) Poking his nose where he shouldn't, in spite of being encouraged not to;
3) Dealing with the enemy (Shadow Broker).


As for the experiments on Humans and would the Alliance condone it or not, read this, then think again of the Alliance as not a US in space, but as a British East India Company in space, and decide for yourself.

1) Sadly this is true, you never hear about an official inquiry
2) He was trying to find out what happened to his men after the Alliance stonewalled him, no one told him not to do it. It is tragic that he died, but that started my Shepard's vendetta against the organisation.
3) The only one the shadowbroker is an enemy to is the Illusive Man, you get a chance to help the Shadow Broker in ME, does that make you a traitor to humanity?

[Iakus]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

 Yeah, I realize in the end you can give the metaphorical middle finger to the Illusive man, but at the end of ME1 I was all like; "Great, now I have the respect of the council and the entire Alliance military." Then, "Oh, you died and the majority of your squad members moved on, the Council dismisses your claims and you no longer work for the Alliance." I hope they don't do the same thing with ME3.

It was a good idea in concept, but wasn't executed so well, imo.

I fully agree that the shift from Alliance Spectre to Cerberus Errand Boy was way too jarring.  From "savior of the CItadel to nothing is all by itself a stroy worthy of telling.  Also, given everything that you learn about Cerberus in ME 1, I expected working with them to be a more "morally gray" experience.  I wanted opportunities to argue methods with TIM more, to throw past crimes in his face.  I also wanted TIM to keep reminding me that we're fighting for teh future of the galaxy and that end justifies any means.  I was hoping for a recurring theme of how far is too far?"  Unfortunately, they ended up introducing a far "kinder, gentler Cerberus" than ME 1, a Cerberus whom everyone could love, silly uniforms and logos aside.

[Babli]

Yes. Especially because my canon Shepard is Sole Survivor. There should be a lot of more dialogues and scenes before accepting to work with them.



But bad writting in ME 2 is nothing new.

[ResidentNoob]

Personally, I was annoyed that you couldn't ever call TIM out on Akuze.

And then, when Tela Vasir calls you out on not calling TIM out, we can't say anything about it either. WTF.<_<

[JamieCOTC]

Aeowyn wrote...

No, I was disappointed by the fact that I could not, not once, bring up Akuze.

QFT

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

I liked the concept and potential
of working for the enemy. The execution was less than satisfying
unfortunately. Whereas most games provide even an illusion of choice. We
were railroaded into accepting Cerberus. It would have be more
believable if you could momentarily make good on your threat to Jacob.
"I'm not working for terrorists." While minor, being able to discover
Cerberus was our only alternative would have gone a long way for
roleplaying purposes.

There is also the whole Akuze thing. Vasir
hilariously mocks the entire ME2 Cerberus plot when she openly
criticizes Shepard for essentially ignoring what Cerberus was... and we
still have no choice to scream defiance.

And what Bourne said too. 

Unfortunately the main plot of ME2 suffers from overcleaveritis, meaning it has great ideas, but that’s pretty much where it stops.  Overcleaveritis occurs when a writer either mistakes an idea, like a plot device, for an actual plot point or when a writer just doesn’t know where to go from the initial idea.  Leaving out Akuze is a big tell that it was probably the latter in this case.  Either that or Walters just forgot, though both are equally unforgivable.  The resurrection is also a big example of overcleaveritis, though that is for another thread. 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 30 décembre 2010 - 06:11 .

[PsychoWARD23]

Babli wrote...

Yes. Especially because my canon Shepard is Sole Survivor. There should be a lot of more dialogues and scenes before accepting to work with them.

But bad writting in ME 2 is nothing new.

Oh come on, the writing in ME2 is much better than %90 of video games today.

[Dean_the_Young]

ResidentNoob wrote...

Personally, I was annoyed that you couldn't ever call TIM out on Akuze.

What would you call him out on: that the Alliance sent its own unit to investigate a colony that went silent, years before TIM ever took control of Cerberus away from the Alliance?

[Babli]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Yes. Especially because my canon Shepard is Sole Survivor. There should be a lot of more dialogues and scenes before accepting to work with them.

But bad writting in ME 2 is nothing new.

Oh come on, the writing in ME2 is much better than %90 of video games today.

But much worse in comparison with ME 1. It´s full of plot holes and stuff that just doesn´t make sense.

[aeetos21]

Hmm... good points on Admiral Kahoku. It is tragic as he was only acting as a good commander would, what Shepard would do if the situations were reversed but I can see why Cerberus or even the Alliance had to kill him. The fallout would've been too great had he exposed what really happened.

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

Bottom line is Cerberus will be victorious, every one else can suck it!

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

2) He was trying to find out what happened to his men after the Alliance stonewalled him, no one told him not to do it.

Kahoku should have gotten the message of that stonewalling: "Drop the matter".

Sajuro wrote...

It is tragic that he died,

Perhaps so, changes nothing. Also, comes with the job and he knew the risks.

Sajuro wrote...

but that started my Shepard's vendetta against the organisation.

Starting petty vendettas when faced with a galactic extinction characterizes your Shepard as a pathetic narrow-minded individual.

Sajuro wrote...

3) The only one the shadowbroker is an enemy to is the Illusive Man,

Yeah, sure. That... thing was actually a rose bunny from the Candy Land. Only just a little bit sick.

Sajuro wrote...

you get a chance to help the Shadow Broker in ME, does that make you a traitor to humanity?

Yes. (Shepard's response when he denies the Shadow Broker's request identifies as much).

[PsychoWARD23]

Babli wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Yes. Especially because my canon Shepard is Sole Survivor. There should be a lot of more dialogues and scenes before accepting to work with them.

But bad writting in ME 2 is nothing new.

Oh come on, the writing in ME2 is much better than %90 of video games today.

But much worse in comparison with ME 1. It´s full of plot holes and stuff that just doesn´t make sense.

Example?

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

you get a chance to help the Shadow Broker in ME, does that make you a traitor to humanity?

Yes. (Shepard's response when he denies the Shadow Broker's request identifies as much).

Maybe a little off-topic, but it always bothered me that this was considered paragon and denying Tali Alliance information is considered renegade.

@Zulu

I was always under the impression the alien community knew Cerberus was at one time an Alliance black ops organization. If there is some hard evidence for this I'd appreciate it if you'd point me in the right direction.

[Xilizhra]

Maybe a little off-topic, but it always bothered me that this was considered paragon and denying Tali Alliance information is considered renegade.

The Alliance already had the geth information; Tali's just copying it.

For that matter, why does it bother you that something is Renegade when you have a big Renegade star as your avatar?

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Xilizhra wrote...

Maybe a little off-topic, but it always bothered me that this was considered paragon and denying Tali Alliance information is considered renegade.

The Alliance already had the geth information; Tali's just copying it.
For that matter, why does it bother you that something is Renegade when you have a big Renegade star as your avatar?

You think Shepard would give the SB Cerberus info and not keep a copy for the Alliance?

Also, I don't care about renegade/paragon points, I would just like some consistency in morality. Withholding info from the Shadow Broker is paragon (deservedly so) because it's a sign of loyalty to the Alliance. Big Mean RedShep gets evil points for withholding Alliance info from sweet little Tali even though the situation is exactly the same.

[Babli]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

Babli wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Yes. Especially because my canon Shepard is Sole Survivor. There should be a lot of more dialogues and scenes before accepting to work with them.

But bad writting in ME 2 is nothing new.

Oh come on, the writing in ME2 is much better than %90 of video games today.

But much worse in comparison with ME 1. It´s full of plot holes and stuff that just doesn´t make sense.

Example?

Are you trolling or you really  dont know about them? There are a lot of threads about plot holes so search for them.