206 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Probably because the stuff retrieved from Cerberus is proprietary Alliance information, given that Cerberus is an Alliance organization, whereas geth schematics are purely spoils of war that the quarians would quite possibly need and which have nothing to do with the Alliance.

[Zulu_DFA]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I was always under the impression the alien community knew Cerberus was at one time an Alliance black ops organization. If there is some hard evidence for this I'd appreciate it if you'd point me in the right direction.

Mordin's comments on Cerberus and TIM during his recruitment mission and when he is first time on the Normandy indicate that he is either unaware of the Cerberus-Alliance connection, or doesn't let it on.

It's possible that the alien governments know it though, but they choose to play ball with the Alliance. You know how it goes... We know, and you know that we know, and we know that you know that we know, but we pertend that we don't know, and you pretend that you don't know that we know. And it can be played indefinitely, unless somebody blows the wistle, and everyone has to save their faces and cover their asses.

On the other hand, it's not on the Shadow Broker's files...

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I was always under the impression the alien community knew Cerberus was at one time an Alliance black ops organization. If there is some hard evidence for this I'd appreciate it if you'd point me in the right direction.

Mordin's comments on Cerberus and TIM during his recruitment mission and when he is first time on the Normandy indicate that he is either unaware of the Cerberus-Alliance connection, or doesn't let it on.

It's possible that the alien governments know it though, but they choose to play ball with the Alliance. You know how it goes... We know, and you know that we know, and we know that you know that we know, but we pertend that we don't know, and you pretend that you don't know that we know. And it can be played indefinitely, unless somebody blows the wistle, and everyone has to save their faces and cover their asses.

On the other hand, it's not on the Shadow Broker's files...

Yeah, either is a possibility. I don't think it's extremely relevant because the Alliance has the "they had gone rogue by that point" defense.

[JamieCOTC]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

Babli wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Yes. Especially because my canon Shepard is Sole Survivor. There should be a lot of more dialogues and scenes before accepting to work with them.

But bad writting in ME 2 is nothing new.

Oh come on, the writing in ME2 is much better than %90 of video games today.

But much worse in comparison with ME 1. It´s full of plot holes and stuff that just doesn´t make sense.

Example?

Here's a whole thread of plot holes.

[Dean_the_Young]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

ResidentNoob wrote...

Personally, I was annoyed that you couldn't ever call TIM out on Akuze.

What would you call him out on: that the Alliance sent its own unit to investigate a colony that went silent, years before TIM ever took control of Cerberus away from the Alliance?

the Illusive Man started Cerberus. I'm pretty sure it says so in Retribution

It doesn't.

TIM pushed for Cerberus, and certainly had a role in it, but at the end of the day it was the Alliance who set up, manned, supplied, ran, and directed Cerberus for a good amount of time, with (at least nominal) control lost only shortly before ME1.

It's pretty much as Hackett told us: Akuze was a top-secret Alliance research project. Cerberus was the means to carry it out, in many respects, but Cerberus was certainly Alliance at the time.

[Praetor Knight]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Here's a whole thread of plot holes.

IMHO, too many forumites are too liberal with defining what makes a "plot hole" in the ME2 story.

There are other ways to break down the story, then to simply jump on the "plot hole" bandwagon, again IMHO.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Disappointed? I hate working with them! I want to shoot TIM every time I meet him and I want my shep to hang himself every time he has to talk to him and I want to punch Kelly for telling me about him! So yeah can you tell no love for Timmy? If my shep had it his way that chip would've need to be used in order to get him cooperating but no BW just made him so maybe they put the chip in!

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Disappointed? I hate working with them! I want to shoot TIM every time I meet him and I want my shep to hang himself every time he has to talk to him and I want to punch Kelly for telling me about him!

So you'd like to doom all of the human colonies to abduction and Reaper smoothies because of a personal grudge? Hmm...

[Xilizhra]

No need. With the Collectors beaten, TIM has no further use as far as I can see. Of course, if he falls in line, I can ignore him for now...

[Fixers0]

The Illusive man and his petty organisation called are cerberus are doomed, my Shepard will not rest until the Galaxy is purged of that scum.

[Zulu_DFA]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I was always under the impression the alien community knew Cerberus was at one time an Alliance black ops organization. If there is some hard evidence for this I'd appreciate it if you'd point me in the right direction.

Mordin's comments on Cerberus and TIM during his recruitment mission and when he is first time on the Normandy indicate that he is either unaware of the Cerberus-Alliance connection, or doesn't let it on.

It's possible that the alien governments know it though, but they choose to play ball with the Alliance. You know how it goes... We know, and you know that we know, and we know that you know that we know, but we pertend that we don't know, and you pretend that you don't know that we know. And it can be played indefinitely, unless somebody blows the wistle, and everyone has to save their faces and cover their asses.

On the other hand, it's not on the Shadow Broker's files...

Yeah, either is a possibility. I don't think it's extremely relevant because the Alliance has the "they had gone rogue by that point" defense.

Right.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

No need. With the Collectors beaten, TIM has no further use as far as I can see. Of course, if he falls in line, I can ignore him for now...

What assets did he bring against the Collectors that he could not also bring against the Reapers, or other complications that might get in the way of fighting the Reapers?

What use did he have in the first place? And before you knew of the Collectors, what use did you have for him then? Would it have been any better an idea if, say, in ME1, you could have completely wiped out Cerberus?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:00 .

[Aeowyn]

TIM and Cerberus do have further use in the fight against the Reapers. But just because I'm fighting alongside them it doesn't mean I have to trust them.

[Xilizhra]

What assets did he bring against the Collectors that he could not also bring against the Reapers, or other complications that might get in the way of fighting the Reapers?

I've brought up other complications many, many times. And now that my girlfriend is in control of the Shadow Broker's network, plus the fact that I have the proof of the Reapers' existence by their attack, I don't think Cerberus will be necessary.

What use did he have in the first place? And before you knew of the Collectors, what use did you have for him then? Would it have been any better an idea if, say, in ME1, you could have completely wiped out Cerberus?

Given what we knew and could reasonably assume in ME1, yes.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

What assets did he bring against the Collectors that he could not also bring against the Reapers, or other complications that might get in the way of fighting the Reapers?

I've brought up other complications many, many times. And now that my girlfriend is in control of the Shadow Broker's network, plus the fact that I have the proof of the Reapers' existence by their attack, I don't think Cerberus will be necessary.

I didn't ask what the complications of working with Cerberus were. I asked another question entirely.

You can bet that the Shadow Broker network can do everything. Or you can hedge your bets, and work with another network that not only is known to specialize and excell in different areas than the Shadow Broker network, but also beat the prior network in a shadow war. Since working with Cerberus does not invalidate the boons of the Shadow Broker network, and we know that the Broker Network isn't simply a duplication of Cerberus works, influence, and knowledge, why not?

Given what we knew and could reasonably assume in ME1, yes.

And while that would be perfectly understandable, since you didn't know either of the sort of Collector threat or Cerberus's willingness to work towards valid motives, it also would have ended up being a waste.

Now, when you do know that you have a known unknown threat coming at you, and of the sort of other threats in the galaxy, why does it make any more sense to cut yourself from Cerberus and push it away now?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:25 .

[Xilizhra]

You can bet that the Shadow Broker network can do everything. Or you can hedge your bets, and work with another network that not only is known to specialize and excell in different areas than the Shadow Broker network, but also beat the prior network in a shadow war. Since working with Cerberus does not invalidate the boons of the Shadow Broker network, and we know that the Broker Network isn't simply a duplication of Cerberus works, influence, and knowledge, why not?

And if Cerberus does fall in line, as I said, I'll make use of them.

I should have been clearer. I'll happily squash them if they make themselves problems.

[Dean_the_Young]

Squash anyone if they make problems.



Cerberus, Shiala, Liara, the Council, the Alliance.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Xilizhra wrote...

You can bet that the Shadow Broker network can do everything. Or you can hedge your bets, and work with another network that not only is known to specialize and excell in different areas than the Shadow Broker network, but also beat the prior network in a shadow war. Since working with Cerberus does not invalidate the boons of the Shadow Broker network, and we know that the Broker Network isn't simply a duplication of Cerberus works, influence, and knowledge, why not?

And if Cerberus does fall in line, as I said, I'll make use of them.
I should have been clearer. I'll happily squash them if they make themselves problems.

It seems your Shepard has the same god-complex so many people claim TIM has.

[Xilizhra]

[quote][quote]Squash anyone if they make problems.



Cerberus, Shiala, Liara, the Council, the Alliance.[/quote]
Well, yes (except for the Council, which is one big problem but which I find necessary to keep galactic stability for now). However, I suspect that Cerberus will be one moreso than the other factions you mentioned.



[quote]It seems your Shepard has the same god-complex so many people
claim TIM has.[/quote]

If you like, I'll change it to "defeat."

Modifié par Xilizhra, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:37 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Why would you expect the only organization actively working against the Reapers to be Shepard's biggest problem?

Modifié par Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:41 .

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote][quote]Squash anyone if they make problems.



Cerberus, Shiala, Liara, the Council, the Alliance.[/quote]
Well, yes (except for the Council, which is one big problem but which I find necessary to keep galactic stability for now). However, I suspect that Cerberus will be one moreso than the other factions you mentioned.
[/quote]It doesn't matter who. If the Council is more trouble than it's worth to galactic survival and ending the cycle of galactic extinction, galactic stability is a infinitely distant second. War and instability is transitory. Extinction is permanent. If the Council is more of a hinderance than a help to the first, then it is simply another group.

[Xilizhra]

Why would you expect the only organization actively working against the Reapers to be Shepard's biggest problem?

Its extreme moral ambiguity that's only been reinforced in the latest novel. I doubt it'll be a mandatory ally for all Shepards.

It doesn't matter who. If the Council is more trouble than it's worth to galactic survival and ending the cycle of galactic extinction, galactic stability is a infinitely distant second. War and instability is transitory. Extinction is permanent. If the Council is more of a hinderance than a help to the first, then it is simply another group.

So far, they haven't been. Perhaps they will be in the future. We shall see.

[Collider]

I'm disappointed that Sole Survivors barely got anything special.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Xilizhra wrote...

Why would you expect the only organization actively working against the Reapers to be Shepard's biggest problem?

Its extreme moral ambiguity that's only been reinforced in the latest novel. I doubt it'll be a mandatory ally for all Shepards.

I fail to see how hunting down a traitor to their cause is moral ambiguity. As for being a mandatory ally in ME3, you're almost surely correct (unless it's finally revealed they've been with the Alliance all along).