91 réponses à ce sujet

[Knal1991]

B3taMaxxx wrote...

PC players are thieves!

I don't pirate movies or games.

you are indicating that every PC player is pirate >_>

Trust me there is enough piracy on consoles as well

[Dreskar]

TheMufflon wrote...

Dreskar wrote...

you would have to pay the $20 dollars even if you pirate the game to play the locked content.

Right, because clearly no one would crack it.

Hence why I said theoretically, and it would be cracked? Good reading.

[B3taMaxxx]

Knal1991 wrote...
you are indicating that every PC player is pirate >_>

Trust me there is enough piracy on consoles as well

Yes. I paint with a large brush. All console players are capitalist pigs.

Modifié par B3taMaxxx, 30 décembre 2010 - 07:20 .

[Daewan]

Suprez30 wrote...

That remind me of someone in my family . He was a farmer and he had a lot of cow.So he produced milk and he had a quota per month .

The governement told him if he had extra milk he had to dump it on the ground .Because more milk would mean price drop .That a very bad thing you see .For other farmer etc.
So he agreed.He was not greedy so he accepted it.But deep inside something was fishy about this .

Than some day during the month he was almost arrested because he gave the extra milk to poor family in the village.He could not even give his own milk.Dump it on the ground before giving it so this way we will continue to control them was he thinking.

He could give money into a box and contribute like this for the poor but he could not intervene himself.He could not visit a poor family and give them milk directly.He was a criminal by doing so.He broke the law.A criminal . .A sumbag .. Those lazy bastard did not deserved any of his milk!

Half the village was poor and starving .So if they were heatly and had good milk .. Maybe some of them would have discovered a cure .Who know.The creator of facebook broke the university law.Some student have downloaded software because they did not have enough money to purchase it and next thing you know .. they created something that corporation could not.

But go for it . Put a price tag on everything.Make sure the poor stay stupid so you can control them.
Viva capitalista and consumeria;Hoarding stuff that a nice goal in life.Be proud.

No.  I'm sorry, your analogy fails to understand something.  What happens in game piracy is not someone stealing something to survive.  They are not being given something that no one wants.  They are stealing toys that someone worked very hard to make.  Games are not vital to survival.  They are entertainment.
What would match your story would be if a toymaker and his family worked for months putting together tiny dolls piece by piece, and then someone who lived alone walked up and stole a box full of them, then shared them with all his friends.  That's game piracy.  Meanwhile the family of four across the street saved up to buy a doll with their hard-earned money.  They could have walked over to the thief and gotten one for free, but instead they wanted to support the toymaker by paying for a doll.
This isn't about some government or some economic system wasting precious resources or destroying lives, it's about people wanting to play games and have fun.  Some people think their fun should come at the expense of others.  Some people prefer to earn their fun so that they can enjoy the relaxation more.
So yes, I am quite proud that my efforts are rewarded with an adequate amount of leisure time so that I can enjoy reading and playing video games that I paid for with my hard work.  Is that capitalism?  Or just me taking responsibility for my own actions?

[TheMufflon]

Daewan wrote...

What would match your story would be if a toymaker and his family worked for months putting together tiny dolls piece by piece, and then someone who lived alone walked up and stole a box full of them, then shared them with all his friends.

That is a faulty analogy. There would be no theft invoved, only copying. The toy maker would still have all the toys.

[Busomjack]

Knal1991 wrote...

B3taMaxxx wrote...

PC players are thieves!

I don't pirate movies or games.

you are indicating that every PC player is pirate >_>

Trust me there is enough piracy on consoles as well

There is a reason why hardly anyone wants to develop games for the PC anymore.

http://pc.ign.com/ar.../1142183p1.html

PC Game Downloads in 2010


1. Call of Duty: Black Ops (4,270,000) (Nov. 2010)


2. Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (3,960,000) (Mar. 2010)


3. Mafia 2 (3,550,000) (Aug. 2010)


4. Mass Effect 2 (3,240,000) (Jan. 2010)


5. Starcraft II (3,120,000) (Jul. 2010)




Wii Game Downloads in 2010


1. Super Mario Galaxy 2 (1,470,000) (May. 2010)


2. Wii Party (1,220,000) (Oct. 2010)


3. Donkey Kong Country Returns (920,000) (Nov. 2010)


4. Kirbys Epic Yarn (880,000) (Oct. 2010)


5. Red Steel 2 (850,000) (Mar. 2010)




Xbox 360 Game Downloads in 2010


1. Dante's Inferno (1,280,000) (Feb. 2010)


2. Alan Wake (1,140,000) (May. 2010)


3. Red Dead Redemption (1.060,000) (May. 2010)


4. Halo Reach (990,000) (Sept. 2010)


5. Call of Duty: Black Ops (930,000) (Nov. 2010)

[Busomjack]

TheMufflon wrote...

Daewan wrote...

What would match your story would be if a toymaker and his family worked for months putting together tiny dolls piece by piece, and then someone who lived alone walked up and stole a box full of them, then shared them with all his friends.

That is a faulty analogy. There would be no theft invoved, only copying. The toy maker would still have all the toys.

Not really because there is still the potential of a loss sale which means fewer resources for the developer.

Unless you want to seriously tell me that every single one of those 4 million plus downloads of Black Ops would've otherwise not have been sales.

[TheMufflon]

Busomjack wrote...

Not really because there is still the potential of a loss sale which means fewer resources for the developer.

Unless you want to seriously tell me that every single one of those 4 million plus downloads of Black Ops would've otherwise not have been sales.

You seem confused. Maybe you should try reading my post again.

[lv12medic]

Piracy in one form or another has been in existence for ages. There's no way to stop all of it simply because it is a very complicated issue legally. The international copyright laws are piecemeal from place to place and the only effective way of limiting piracy would be to have a united legal stance across the globe and effective enforcement. Which won't happen anytime soon. Some of the the reactionary measures taken by the publishing companies (DRM, limited activations, etc.) haven't done a lot of good either and made headaches for the people that do buy the products legally.



There is no justification to Piracy, but lack of any real justification has never stopped certain people from doing bad things anyways.

[Busomjack]

TheMufflon wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Not really because there is still the potential of a loss sale which means fewer resources for the developer.

Unless you want to seriously tell me that every single one of those 4 million plus downloads of Black Ops would've otherwise not have been sales.

You seem confused. Maybe you should try reading my post again.

No, no confusion at all.  You're saying piracy is benign since nothing tangible is taken which is a faulty argument since this is an industry which runs on money.  If you take something without paying for it, it doesn't matter whether it's a physical object or exists as data, that is still lost revenue for the people responsible for it.

Just look at Red Steel 2 for the Wii, that game sold way below expectations yet it had over twice as many illegal downloads than sales.

[Busomjack]

lv12medic wrote...

Piracy in one form or another has been in existence for ages. There's no way to stop all of it simply because it is a very complicated issue legally. The international copyright laws are piecemeal from place to place and the only effective way of limiting piracy would be to have a united legal stance across the globe and effective enforcement. Which won't happen anytime soon. Some of the the reactionary measures taken by the publishing companies (DRM, limited activations, etc.) haven't done a lot of good either and made headaches for the people that do buy the products legally.

There is no justification to Piracy, but lack of any real justification has never stopped certain people from doing bad things anyways.

Just because we can't stop something in it's entirety does not mean we shouldn't have any laws or protections against it.  It would be like removing all security from a bank just because we assume somebody will be able to rob it eventually.  That doesn't make any sense!
I think what developers should do for the PC is they should exclusively use cloud gaming services like Onlive so that everything is streamed and thus there can be no copy of the game digital or physical to pirate to begin with.

[TheMufflon]

Busomjack wrote...

You're saying piracy is benign

I am saying that Daewan made a bad analogy. What ever else you might have heard stem only from your own presumptions. Which is why I asked you to re-read what I actually wrote, though it appeared a futile hope.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:14 .

[Busomjack]

Another funny argument is when they say they can't afford to buy games.



If you have time to play games then you can get a friggin job. Hell, the fact that they can get all these games for free is probably the reason why most pirates still live in their mother's basement.

[slimgrin]

scyphozoa wrote...

Yup, DRM is whole nother topic, imo. Modern DRM is an infantile, and often knee-jerk reaction to the complex issue that is piracy. As I said earlier, piracy is just a symptom of people being a**holes, so DRM is never going to change the core of the problem.

But really, what is?

I would even go a step further and claim some drm methods are just tie-ins for marketing. The sheer amount of crap I had to install, download, and sign up for to play GTA4 on my pc was beyond ludicrous. 

If publishers want to see fewer pirates, they need to stop treating their customers like brainless cash cows.

Modifié par slimgrin, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:14 .

[Busomjack]

TheMufflon wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

You're saying piracy is benign

I am saying that Daewan made a bad analogy. What ever else you might have heard stem only from your own presumptions.

I think the analogy made perfect sense.  It wasn't about the fact that he still had his toys, it's about those other people who got the toys for free and thus did not have to pay for them meaning lost revenue for the toymaker to begin with.

[TheMufflon]

Busomjack wrote...

I think the analogy made perfect sense.

Then I suppose that says more about you than the analogy.

[Busomjack]

slimgrin wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

Yup, DRM is whole nother topic, imo. Modern DRM is an infantile, and often knee-jerk reaction to the complex issue that is piracy. As I said earlier, piracy is just a symptom of people being a**holes, so DRM is never going to change the core of the problem.

But really, what is?

I would even go a step further and claim some drm methods are just tie-ins for marketing. The sheer amount of crap I had to install, download, and sign up for to play GTA4 on my pc was beyond ludicrous. 

If publishers want to see fewer pirates, they need to stop treating their customers like brainless cash cows.

If PC gamers want publishers to stop treating them like the thieves most of them are then they need to prove that their opinions matter and money talks a lot louder than words in this business.
Notice how the console versions of Assassin's Creed II don't require an internet connection but the PC versions do?  You ever think that's because the former has fewer people who think that gaming is a charity?

[Busomjack]

TheMufflon wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I think the analogy made perfect sense.

Then I suppose that says more about you than the analogy.

And your trash-talking when confronted with my infallable interpretation of Daewan's post speaks volumes of you.

Next time you need me to hold your hand and explain something that flies right over you just let me know.

[Daewan]

TheMufflon wrote...

Daewan wrote...

What would match your story would be if a toymaker and his family worked for months putting together tiny dolls piece by piece, and then someone who lived alone walked up and stole a box full of them, then shared them with all his friends.

That is a faulty analogy. There would be no theft invoved, only copying. The toy maker would still have all the toys.

The imperfection in the analogy with CDs is the ease of making an exact reproduction.  There isn't a very good way to make a simple comparison to the fact that the toymaker had to make the toys for there to be something for the pirate to copy, and that the copies are completely identical to his work.  Without the toymaker's work, the copies would not exist, but creating the toys in the first place was not trivial.  Making the copies - with or without the toymaker's permission - is.  And there is theft involved.  The pirate can't make the first copy without having the original to start from.  And if the pirate actually puchased the first copy with the sole intent of making copies to give away for free, that is still theft (just of a different kind).

[Busomjack]

Daewan wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Daewan wrote...

What would match your story would be if a toymaker and his family worked for months putting together tiny dolls piece by piece, and then someone who lived alone walked up and stole a box full of them, then shared them with all his friends.

That is a faulty analogy. There would be no theft invoved, only copying. The toy maker would still have all the toys.

The imperfection in the analogy with CDs is the ease of making an exact reproduction.  There isn't a very good way to make a simple comparison to the fact that the toymaker had to make the toys for there to be something for the pirate to copy, and that the copies are completely identical to his work.  Without the toymaker's work, the copies would not exist, but creating the toys in the first place was not trivial.  Making the copies - with or without the toymaker's permission - is.  And there is theft involved.  The pirate can't make the first copy without having the original to start from.  And if the pirate actually puchased the first copy with the sole intent of making copies to give away for free, that is still theft (just of a different kind).

Yeah, you see Mufflon.  I realized all of this before Daewan had to elaborate it further for you like this.

[slimgrin]

Busomjack, people steal. People who own PC's, people who own consoles, people who own boats, people who own cars...

Modifié par slimgrin, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:22 .

[TheMufflon]

Busomjack wrote...

And your trash-talking when confronted with my infallable interpretation of Daewan's post speaks volumes of you.

Since your argument was mearly an appeal to your own sense of reasoning, a counter argument was by nescessity also an ad hominem (i.e. intimating that that you have none).

Oh, and also: Pot, kettle black. You are obviuosly just trying to obfuscate your own shortcoming by antagonizing me, but by all means: Keep trying, I need a good laugh.

[Busomjack]

slimgrin wrote...

Busomjack, people steal. People who own PC's, people who own consoles, people who own boats, people who own cars...

Yeah but people who play games on the PC steal more than people who game on consoles.  Didn't you see those numbers I posted earlier from IGN?