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[Zavox]

Eddo36 wrote...

Liselle: Hey mom, the group that attacked us were all human. Didn't we find out that Grayson worked for Cerberus? There was this asian guy in there that I can draw a picture of.

Didn't we also know that the Blue Sun and that rival gang with us in a drug war are also human heavy in their ranks? Oh and, we actually don't know that Grayson worked for Cerberus.. why the hell did I just said that? (Aria never knew Grayson worked with Cerberus, read the novel)

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Zavox wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

How would Kai Leng have known that Grayson hadn't told Liselle about Cerberus? Killing Liselle was the safest course of action to keep Cerberus from being implicated. All it would have taken is Grayson whispering to Liselle (during a lengthy firefight), "Cerberus has come for me." Aria would not be happy when she found out Cerberus took one of her best assets.

Read the novel, it was anything but lengthy and Cerberus pretty much had eye-sight all the time on Liselle and Grayson when they were together, which was about 5-10 seconds.

Neither was I suggesting that Liselle be taken, even though that may have been the best way to cover your tracks. Take her with you, but let her think she escapes a while later. No way for Liselle to know for certain they were Cerberus, other than a hint here and there, which killing Liselle just as well does.

Aria neither would be happy that she was killed. Secondly, I think I've said this in my post before but Kai Leng had no knowledge whatsoever Liselle was Aria's child. Thus killing her or abducting her or leaving her may not have mattered either way as she was just another asset to Aria as Grayson was in Kai Leng's eyes.

Aria is not stupid, and she does not need to prove it was Cerberus in a court of law. If Aria knew that Grayson ran from Cerberus, and she gets a report that a group of humans abduct him in a full out attack on one of her districts (not to mention the Turian guards killed), she's going to blame Cerberus. A witness cannot tell a story when they're dead.

[Zavox]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Aria is not stupid, and she does not need to prove it was Cerberus in a court of law. If Aria knew that Grayson ran from Cerberus, and she gets a report that a group of humans abduct him in a full out attack on one of her districts (not to mention the Turian guards killed), she's going to blame Cerberus. A witness cannot tell a story when they're dead.

Read post above, Aria never knew Grayson's background. Plus, what the hell do the guards have to do with it, any assault team would've had to go past the guards. Again, if Kai Leng himself thinks the red sand might've put Aria on the track of the rival gang (which is human heavy), why kill Liselle and capture Grayson? It should've put Aria in a different direction than a rival gang, namely an abduction of Grayson which is not important to Aria asset wise. Thus the killing of the witness may make things more complicated, as dead bodies do have a story to tell. (Tranquilizer, then killed by a knife, oh... why the hell would a gang do that...?)

[Eddo36]

Zavox wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Liselle: Hey mom, the group that attacked us were all human. Didn't we find out that Grayson worked for Cerberus? There was this asian guy in there that I can draw a picture of.

Didn't we also know that the Blue Sun and that rival gang with us in a drug war are also human heavy in their ranks? Oh and, we actually don't know that Grayson worked for Cerberus.. why the hell did I just said that? (Aria never knew Grayson worked with Cerberus, read the novel)

You should read the novel a second time, because I think things slipped by the first time. Or maybe reading comprehension courses.
Aria did find out on page 107.
Aria: What did you learn?
Sanak: His real name is Paul Grayson. He used to work for Cerberus.

[Eddo36]

Zavox wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Aria is not stupid, and she does not need to prove it was Cerberus in a court of law. If Aria knew that Grayson ran from Cerberus, and she gets a report that a group of humans abduct him in a full out attack on one of her districts (not to mention the Turian guards killed), she's going to blame Cerberus. A witness cannot tell a story when they're dead.

Read post above, Aria never knew Grayson's background. Plus, what the hell do the guards have to do with it, any assault team would've had to go past the guards. Again, if Kai Leng himself thinks the red sand might've put Aria on the track of the rival gang (which is human heavy), why kill Liselle and capture Grayson? It should've put Aria in a different direction than a rival gang, namely an abduction of Grayson which is not important to Aria asset wise. Thus the killing of the witness may make things more complicated, as dead bodies do have a story to tell. (Tranquilizer, then killed by a knife, oh... why the hell would a gang do that...?)

Seems to have worked.

Sanak: Look at the evidence. Liselle's throat was slashed; she trusted her killer to let him get in close. And what about the drugs? I wanted to take them to you at the club. [Grayson] insisted we leave them here with him. Seems kind of strange.

Little bit later...

Aria: You have a theory?
Sanak: [Grayson] couldn't resist the sand. Felt that old craving deep inside. So he called some old friends on the station. Invited them over for a party. Liselle showed up to surprise him. He knew he was caught. Had his friends hide in the bedroom. Invited her inside. Cut her throat. Grabbed the drugs and took off with his friends.

Modifié par Eddo36, 30 décembre 2010 - 07:38 .

[Zavox]

Eddo36 wrote...

Seems to have worked.

Sanak: Look at the evidence. Liselle's throat was slashed; she trusted her killer to let him get in close. And what about the drugs? I wanted to take them to you at the club. [Grayson] insisted we leave them here with him. Seems kind of strange.

Little bit later...

Aria: You have a theory?
Sanak: Johnson couldn't resist the sand. Felt that old craving deep inside. So he called some old friends on the station. Invited them over for a party. Liselle showed up to surprise him. He knew he was caught. Had his friends hide in the bedroom. Invited her inside. Cut her throat. Grabbed the drugs and took off with his friends.

Yes, and I'm kind of gutted by that, as any forensic team would've found she was tranquilized by a shot in the chest. Regardless, Sanak's story wasn't believed by Aria and isn't the most impartial evidence to use.

[Zavox]

Eddo36 wrote...

Zavox wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Liselle: Hey mom, the group that attacked us were all human. Didn't we find out that Grayson worked for Cerberus? There was this asian guy in there that I can draw a picture of.

Didn't we also know that the Blue Sun and that rival gang with us in a drug war are also human heavy in their ranks? Oh and, we actually don't know that Grayson worked for Cerberus.. why the hell did I just said that? (Aria never knew Grayson worked with Cerberus, read the novel)

You should read the novel a second time, because I think things slipped by the first time. Or maybe reading comprehension courses.
Aria did find out on page 107.
Aria: What did you learn?
Sanak: His real name is Paul Grayson. He used to work for Cerberus.

Which is after the killing? They didn't know before. Thus Liselle couldn't have known anything beforehand. Only this evidence which they got either way. Killing or leaving her be doesn't change a thing.

Modifié par Zavox, 30 décembre 2010 - 07:42 .

[Eddo36]

Also remember Leng wouldn't attack if he knew Liselle was going to be there.

"If he went home alone tonight, instead of accompanied by the young asari he was sleeping with, they'd strike. If he wasn't alone, they wait another chance. Kai Leng was nothing if not patient."

Modifié par Eddo36, 30 décembre 2010 - 07:43 .

[Eddo36]

Zavox wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Zavox wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Liselle: Hey mom, the group that attacked us were all human. Didn't we find out that Grayson worked for Cerberus? There was this asian guy in there that I can draw a picture of.

Didn't we also know that the Blue Sun and that rival gang with us in a drug war are also human heavy in their ranks? Oh and, we actually don't know that Grayson worked for Cerberus.. why the hell did I just said that? (Aria never knew Grayson worked with Cerberus, read the novel)

You should read the novel a second time, because I think things slipped by the first time. Or maybe reading comprehension courses.
Aria did find out on page 107.
Aria: What did you learn?
Sanak: His real name is Paul Grayson. He used to work for Cerberus.

Which is after the killing? They didn't know before. Thus Liselle couldn't have known anything beforehand. Only this evidence which they got either way. Killing or leaving her be doesn't change a thing.

Thing is, how would Leng know that Aria doesn't know?

[Zavox]

Eddo36 wrote...

Also remember Leng wouldn't attack if he knew Liselle wasn't going to be there.

"If he went home alone tonight, instead of accompanied by the young asari he was sleeping with, they'd strike. If he wasn't alone, they wait another chance. Kai Leng was nothing if not patient"

Yes, as this would pose more opposition than a clean strike. He got told by the guards Liselle would be there, and then he said to just kill the asari **** either way. What he didn't know were the circumstances, would she see them before they got the deed done, would she even be there or out for a stroll. etc. No matter the circumstances, kill the asari ****.

Eddo36 wrote...

Thing is, how would Leng know that Aria doesn't know?

Well, simple logic would conclude Aria would never hire someone like that. But, if Kai Leng didn't use simple logic, would killing Liselle matter? (The team was witnessed by various people who also stated they were fully human).

Modifié par Zavox, 30 décembre 2010 - 07:48 .

[Eddo36]

Zavox wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Also remember Leng wouldn't attack if he knew Liselle wasn't going to be there.

"If he went home alone tonight, instead of accompanied by the young asari he was sleeping with, they'd strike. If he wasn't alone, they wait another chance. Kai Leng was nothing if not patient"

Yes, as this would pose more opposition than a clean strike. He got told by the guards Liselle would be there, and then he said to just kill the asari **** either way. What he didn't know were the circumstances, would she see them before they got the deed done, would she even be there or out for a stroll. etc. No matter the circumstances, kill the asari ****.

It was too late to abort the mission.

"He never would have given the go-ahead for the mission if he knew the asari would be there, but it was too late to abort. The guards were sure to ask Grayson about his surprise party in the next few days. He was smart enough to put the pieces together; he'd know Cerberus had found him. He'd either disappear or get a special security detail from Aria to shadow him. Tonight was their only chance."

[Eddo36]

Zavox wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Thing is, how would Leng know that Aria doesn't know?

Well, simple logic would conclude Aria would never hire someone like that. But, if Kai Leng didn't use simple logic, would killing Liselle matter? (The team was witnessed by various people who also stated they were fully human).

When did "simple logic" ever turn into "wild guess"?

[Zavox]

Eddo36 wrote...

It was too late to abort the mission.

"He never would have given the go-ahead for the mission if he knew the asari would be there, but it was too late to abort. The guards were sure to ask Grayson about his surprise party in the next few days. He was smart enough to put the pieces together; he'd know Cerberus had found him. He'd either disappear or get a special security detail from Aria to shadow him. Tonight was their only chance."

Wasn't my point, he could've just said; Main objective is Grayson, kill the asari if posing a risk to the operation. Instead he said, "the asari **** is expendable. If you get a chance, kill her.

Eddo36 wrote...

When did "simple logic" ever turn into "wild guess"?

Since when is it a wild guess? Having been part of Cerberus makes you a security risk for a following organization that has you in it's ranks. Thus Aria wouldn't hire him. Simple... Logic...

Modifié par Zavox, 30 décembre 2010 - 07:56 .

[Eddo36]

Dead people tell no tale. Or describe faces. Or avenge their lover.

Modifié par Eddo36, 30 décembre 2010 - 07:56 .

[Eddo36]

Zavox wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

When did "simple logic" ever turn into "wild guess"?

Since when is it a wild guess? Having been part of Cerberus makes you a security risk for a following organization that has you in it's ranks. Thus Aria wouldn't hire him. Simple... Logic...

Aria eventually teamed with the Illusive Man. Simple... Logic... right?

[Zavox]

Eddo36 wrote...

Dead people tell no tale. Or describe faces. Or avenge their lover.

Dead people tell enough of a tale, atleast most of the time they lead to a killer even though they can't say anything right? Besides, faces wouldn't have mattered. They need to narrow down lots of suspects before a facial comparison will matter. Describing faces will yield thousands of results, thus no clear killer.

[Phaedon]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
As to what word I live in . . . the real world.

You support the lack of moral principles. I don't have anything else to say.

[Eddo36]

Zavox wrote...

Dead people tell enough of a tale, atleast most of the time they lead to a killer even though they can't say anything right?

Didn't seem lead to a killer this time.

Except maybe Grayson of course.

[Zavox]

Eddo36 wrote...

Aria eventually teamed with the Illusive Man. Simple... Logic... right?

Teamed tends to be out of your organisation... I would've expected you to see a difference there.
Anyway, I don't want to butcher this tread anymore than we've done already. If you want to continue this discussion PM me.

Eddo36 wrote...

Didn't seem lead to a killer this time.

Except maybe Grayson of course.

Hindsight.

Modifié par Zavox, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:02 .

[jlb524]

Aria's going to find out eventually..then Cerberus is in for a world of pain.



Actually, that would be awesome.

[Eddo36]

jlb524 wrote...

Aria's going to find out eventually..then Cerberus is in for a world of pain.

Actually, that would be awesome.

I can see that coming. Though I think Cerberus still has enough resources to take on Aria.

Modifié par Eddo36, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:02 .

[Phaedon]

Eddo36 wrote...
I can see that coming. Though I think Cerberus still has enough resources to take on Aria. 

They had around 150 operatives, and that was before Retribution,during which most their major bases were hit and everyone abandoned TIM. So, no, they don't have any manpower.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Phaedon wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
As to what word I live in . . . the real world.

You support the lack of moral principles. I don't have anything else to say.

I absolutely support morality. I just don't support the idea that it's never right to kill someone. Morality isn't a simple concept. Sometimes seemingly egregious acts are the right ones.

[Kronner]

Old man Anderson was too much to handle for this guy. Who needs such incompetent racist?

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Kronner wrote...

Old man Anderson was too much to handle for this guy. Who needs such incompetent racist?

Ah yes, "Anderson." The man who goes behind the Alliances back to lead a Turian military operation to take down a pro-human organization and undoubtedly reveal sensitive Alliance information to the Turian hierarchy. IMO, Anderson needs to die a lot more than TIM or Kai Leng.

Also, for those that believe Kai Leng is so evil because he is an assassin, you do realize Anderson was Alliance special forces as well. He had all the same training as Kai Leng. There is no doubt he has offed people that the Alliance wanted dead.