28 réponses à ce sujet

[Brannon]

I've always played a Paragon (I've only finished the game, fully, twice, granted) and I want to do something different with a new play through...yet I don't want to be the personification of evil either. Since I know the story and the quests, I know how to do this for the most part, but it can still be tricky when you factor in that you want to earn enough Paragon or Renegade points to get the good responses. With this play through I want to lean Renegade, but not the "I hate all aliens and my squad are all a bunch of meat shields" type. I want to be a Renegade to Renegades and a Paragon to Paragons (or the innocent) basically. 

While I like the idea of being a dark hero who can be ruthless when the situation merits it, I HATE the idea of being a dick to otherwise quality teammates just for the hell of it. Is this an aspect that leads some of you to not play the game as a full Renegade? My current thought is to simply go "neutral" in certain non-romance dialogs with certain teammates. How has this worked for some of you? 

I like the idea of the Earthborn/Ruthless origin, and since it gives you the greatest potential for Renegade points, I thought that it might offset me not being a full Renegade as far as points go. I'm simply looking for input from player that play this way. Thanks.

Modifié par Brannon, 31 décembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

1. Renegade is not by any means "the personification of evil."

2. Don't worry about your scores. Just play the game how you want. I usually play renegade in ME1, but by the end of the game I'm often close to 3 full bars of paragon.

[michael1983]

While I'm always full paragon with a middle score of renegade in all my playthroughs! I just try to act in a just and fair way given the circumstances.

[Zombie Chow]

Hi Brannon, sorry I didn't reply earlier and I hope it's not too late to help.  Basically, I just finished a ME1 + ME2 playthrough with a character that closely fits what you're planning.  It was my most enjoyable run yet.

But it fun was because of what Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams said above...I made decisions based on what was RP appropriate, not choosing options just because of maximise Paragon or Renegade points.

Brannon wrote...

Since I know the story and the quests, I know how to do this for the most part, but it can still be tricky when you factor in that you want to earn enough Paragon or Renegade points to get the good responses.

I want to be a Renegade to Renegades and a Paragon to Paragons (or the innocent) basically.

Even though my choices were based on RP, I managed to make every single Persuasion check in ME2!  I discovered it by accident, but since it's such an useful find, I'm sharing my experiences here.

I'll try to keep this as short yet as complete as I can.  My original goal was just to romance Liara in ME1 + ME2, but I wanted to hear Jennifer Hale's FemShepard as a Renegade (since like you I mostly played Paragon).

--- ME1 ---

I started ME1 as Earthborn/Ruthless, just like you.  As the game went on, I basically fell in step with your idea...being a Renegade to Renegades and a Paragon to Paragons/innocents.  It just felt right and went like this:

- to Anderson, Kaidan, Ashley, Tali, and Wrex, I was generally Paragon-like (i.e. did not kill Wrex at Virmire)
- but to Garrus, I agreed with his innate Renegade leanings (i.e. killing Dr. Saleon/Heart)
- with the Council and Udina, who were all back-stabbing politicians, I was very Renegade
- but with innocent bystanders, like hostages and brainwashed colonists, I went Paragon and spared every life
- for the Earthborn 10th Street Red gang sidequest, I think I the human gang member, a Renegade choice
- finally, the lasting decisions...I let the Rachni queen escape (Paragon) yet let the Council die (Renegade)

Thus, I kinda created the character's backstory as I went along.  She grew up around violence, so to survive she had to be ruthless, trusting only those closest to her.  However, she has her own code of "honour among thieves".

The result in ME1 I actually ended up around 75% Paragon & 25% Renegade.  I decided not to invest in Persuasion points (though I should have) so I couldn't do a great TV interview or persuade Saren to kill himself.  However, I was able to pass the regular checks.  I was ok with this as I was just setting up  my ME2 run anyway.

--- ME2 ---

I ported this character to ME2, which gave me bonus Paragon & Renegade points (about 120 Paragon and 40 Renegade).  That headstart might be important to make all the Persuasion checks, but I'm honestly not sure.

With ME2, I can't put together a list like the above...I really went with what felt appropriate to the situation, but I really started to be more and more Renegade.  I still made every Persuasion check, I think due to mission order.

Here, I'll just pick out what I think were the key points.  I think that's what will interest you most, Brannon:

- I was mostly Renegade, plus I chose the passive class bonus that gave me +100% Paragon/Renegade points
- as soon as I left Omega, I did Zaeed's loyalty mission and went Paragon (as that's hard to do at higher levels)
- after Horizon, I did missions on my way to Illium, and I recruited Samara 1st (to set up her loyalty mission)
- thus, I did Samara's loyalty mission early and Renegade-resisted Morinth (again, hard at higher levels)
- I played through the excellent LotSB DLC, which gave me a boatload of Paragon points, before the Reaper IFF

In my previous Renegade playthroughs, I always, always, always failed to resist Morinth's seduction.  I usually left Samara for last on Illium (Miranda and Thane seemed more urgent).  That's a mistake as, aside from the fact that Morinth is tough to beat at higher levels, you also failed to get the Paragon or Renegade points from resisting her.

So as I neared the Suicide Mission, I was mostly Renegade, but I saved hostages, was sweet to Liara, and reprogrammed Geth (it made more sense to me IMHO).  Here's where I was at after Legion's loyalty mission:


http://3z2nyq.bay.li...3-37.jpg?psid=1

See, 100% Renegade + 50% Paragon.  Now, we just blew up the Geth Heretics, I just ate at the Mess Hall, Joker tells me Tali and Legion are fighting, so I go in thinking "Renegade Persuasion time".  Then I get this:


http://3z2nyq.bay.li...6-84.jpg?psid=1

In case it's not clear what I'm showing here, it's that even though I'm 100% Renegade + 50% Paragon, I get no Renegade option but the Paragon one!  That was a really fun surprise.

It was also the final crowning achievement of being a "Paragade" or "Renegon".  It seemed really fitting as I had always been Paragon to Tali and shifting that way with Legion (I was always cold to him at 1st).

This was so weird I was going to post it up as a separate post, but it fit your topic, so I'm contributing it here for you.  Sorry for the long read.  But this "Paragade" or "Renegon" is extremely fun when it works, like it did here.

[genobis]

I'ts possible to play entire ME1 in a 100% paragon way (no renegade points), but you can't be fully renegade without omitting some quests (because some of them, i.e. on Feros, are always getting you paragon points). In addition, even as a "full" renegade you may not want to kill Wrex. One of my Shepards, intended to be an incarnation of pure evil, still calms him down on Virmire and usually is nice to his crew and squdmates. I ended up with full renegade and about 1/3 paragon points.



So, Brannon, I think the answer is: be renegade on major things. Be paragon on minor ones. And yeah, I was going neutral very often, it's a good compromise between being cheerful and insulting.

[Ghost Warrior]

Brannon wrote...

I've always played a Paragon (I've only finished the game, fully, twice, granted) and I want to do something different with a new play through...yet I don't want to be the personification of evil either. Since I know the story and the quests, I know how to do this for the most part, but it can still be tricky when you factor in that you want to earn enough Paragon or Renegade points to get the good responses. With this play through I want to lean Renegade, but not the "I hate all aliens and my squad are all a bunch of meat shields" type. I want to be a Renegade to Renegades and a Paragon to Paragons (or the innocent) basically. 

While I like the idea of being a dark hero who can be ruthless when the situation merits it, I HATE the idea of being a dick to otherwise quality teammates just for the hell of it. Is this an aspect that leads some of you to not play the game as a full Renegade? My current thought is to simply go "neutral" in certain non-romance dialogs with certain teammates. How has this worked for some of you? 

I like the idea of the Earthborn/Ruthless origin, and since it gives you the greatest potential for Renegade points, I thought that it might offset me not being a full Renegade as far as points go. I'm simply looking for input from player that play this way. Thanks.

Yes,take Shep with Earthborn origin which gives a gritty edge to his personality,and I think the best Shep is the one who makes all the right choices when it comes to big decisions(saving the Rachni queen and Council for example) but is harsh (kills Rana Thanoptis and Cerberus scientist in Dead Scientists quest,and yeah,he likes intimidating and punching people).So,like you said,you can only be Renegade to those who deserve it and Paragon to others,and still have full Renegade(like I did).

[Fidget6]

Renegade doesn't exactly equal evil. Just different methods to get things done. There are only a couple of renegade moments that I would actually consider evil and those are in ME2.

[genobis]

Fidget6 wrote...

Renegade doesn't exactly equal evil. Just different methods to get things done. There are only a couple of renegade moments that I would actually consider evil and those are in ME2.

What about letting Parasini and Anoleis kill each other? It's only one example.

Modifié par genobis, 04 janvier 2011 - 09:35 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Just about ready to cycle my Earthborn/War Hero Soldier into her 'canon' ME1 play through (first two to get 60 and toward getting free 7 points in both Charm/Intimidate with another 4/3 in the final run) and most of the time, Renegade seems to lean one to a cynical, results-at-all-cost distrustful of most everyone (humans as well as aliens) officer. Not strictly 'evil', not a 'hero' but someone who will get the job done, d**n the consequences and obstacles in the way.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

genobis wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Renegade doesn't exactly equal evil. Just different methods to get things done. There are only a couple of renegade moments that I would actually consider evil and those are in ME2.

What about letting Parasini and Anoleis kill each other? It's only one example.

That's hardly evil. That is simply staying out of a conflict that is not yours. I don't usually do this, but I can see someone playing his Shepard thinking, "I'm not out to solve every little problem in space, just give me a pass and work this out for yourselves." I wouldn't consider this an evil sentiment. Also, when Shepard chooses that option, he has no way of knowing people will die.

[genobis]

You know, if you want to ignore them, you can just take the pass from Qui’in and leave. Going to Anoleis, showing him evidence and provoking conflict IS evil.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Or turning Opold into Anoleis and getting a pass from him for that and bypass the entire port. It would technically be the legal thing to do as well. You're reporting a crime to the local authority.

[Siegdrifa]

@OP

I have done a playthrough as Paragade, and i didn't do any "stupid/evil" regenade choice.
In fact, nearly all my renegade choice has the same result as paragon but done in a more "bad ass" way.

When i ended ME1 i was fully Renegade and 70% Paragon.
I saved the council, and surprisingly, when imported my character to ME2, it said i followed the paragon path, but i had more bonus point in renegade than paragon.

I'm near the end of ME2 and i'm fully renegade with 80% paragon, i acheived nearly all squad quest with a paragon ending, execpt for Mordin, but now i know for sure i can do it as a paragon and still getting fully renegade at the end.

I had no problem convincing jack / miranda tali / legion.

I'm really satisfied, because my paragade Shepard didn't do anything "mean" or "racis" against alien.
The only problem for ME2 is i have a 100% bonus, i didn't chech with a 75% bonus yet.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 05 janvier 2011 - 03:18 .

[Cra5y Pineapple]

I got around playing Renegon by doing the loyalty missions involving a lot of persuasion (ex. Tali's LM) early on. The earlier you play them the less points you need. Fact.

However, the Tali/Legion conflict is impossible to solve without full either way so side with Tali since Legion simply forgives you and forgets about it and remains loyal.

Modifié par Cra5y Pineapple, 05 janvier 2011 - 03:00 .

[Siegdrifa]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

I got around playing Renegon by doing the loyalty missions involving a lot of persuasion (ex. Tali's LM) early on. The earlier you play them the less points you need. Fact.

However, the Tali/Legion conflict is impossible to solve without full either way so side with Tali since Legion simply forgives you and forgets about it and remains loyal.

Wrong, i have done tali's mission just after recruiting legion (i like to have him for the extra dialogue), and i had the choice between  both paragon or renegade to fix their problem, and i was 100% renegade and near 80% paragon.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 05 janvier 2011 - 03:06 .

[McNum]

I just finished a Paragade run of ME1. It's doable, and it's probably my favorite playthrough so far. I usually play 100% Paragon, but this one turned out surprisingly well. A female Shepard, who was really nice to those friendly towards her, and ruthless towards those hostle to her. Also, hurt her friends or crew and you, your friends, and possibly your race is forfeit.

So how'd that work out? I let the Rachni Queen go with the reasoning of "Not commiting genocide today". Saved Zhu's Hope and released the asari. But the ExoGen corporate creep there? Bullet to the head. Then went after the sidequest where you find the rest of the Rachni team. Also bullet to the head. Wrex survived because I got his armor for him, and  of course helped out Kirrahe by disabling the defenses. I was playing smart Shepard, not stupid jerk Shepard. Ash got to live up to her name. (Sorry, bad pun.) Bring Down the Sky ended with the batarian shot. Then shot again. And again. And one more for good measure. Could have saved the hostages, but that'd let someone who attempted to kill a planet go free. Not. Happening.

Concerning the Council... I let karma handle that. "Saren is evil!" They didn't believe that, then they got betrayed. "The Reapers are coming!" Okay, I did sound like a madwoman taking dreams as fact, but I was right. "Sovreign is a Reaper! We mst destroy it now!" What did they do? They grounded me. Which meant Saren got a few more hours headstart to the Conduit, which meant he got there first, which meant Sovereign and the geth attacked the Cidatel. So when the moment came where we had an opening on Sovreign, I didn't ask the Council, I ordered the Reaper dead at all costs. Boom goes the squid-thingy and boom goes the Council. Too bad, they could easily have avoided that fate.

I think I eanded up with an even 50/50 split of Paragon/Renegade. And a nasty hate for Cerberus, which is going to be fun when I import this one.

The only thing that bugged me was that with a 50/50 split, I couldn't talk Saren down. I love doing that in RPGs, but today, it was a shootout. Never actually fought him before. The fun part of a Paragade, though, is all those tempting conversation choices that Paragon-Shepard wouldn't dream of? You get to do that without playing a jerk. Or you can play a heroic jerk, if you want.

[Interactive Civilian]

So, errr... Is there a certain percent of the opposite side you need to be to really consider yourself "Paragade" or "Renegon"?



I usually just play the games make the choices I feel are most appropriate, though I noticed in my first play-throughs the benefits of going Paragon in my choices and sometimes that biased me. Especially now, though, I pick the response I want, instead of automatically gravitating to the upper right.



My canon characters still come out strongly on the Paragon side, though. Just how I roll, I guess.



So, about how much renegade do I need with my paragon to be a "paragade"? Do you guys have an approximate cut-off between "true paragon" and "renegade enough to be a paragade"?

[guyhard]

I've only played it once, as a goody two shoes soldier. Going neutral is highly discouraged - it makes it harder to get charm / intimidate, which saves your arse a lot of the time.



I tried playing an all bad infiltrator, but I'm going to restart her - I felt that doing all the bad options was a bit too much. I wanted to be a ruthless warrior, not an ignorant jackass.

[Dean_the_Young]

In ME2, Charm/Intimidate matters potentially primarily a grand total of... once. A saving Wrex from himself if you didn't get his Family Armor. (Otherwise, he's dead.)



In ME2, Charm/Intimidate matters only if you're a perfectionist player who wants everyone loyal. It's quite possible (and not hard) to have a perfect suicide mission without perfect loyalty compliment. The only guaranteed change to affect your party is an inability to get Morinth.





There are no required Paragon/Renegade choices, and only from a perfectionist standpoint are they necessary. If you don't Para/Rene a shop, you can still buy items. If you don't para/rene a crisis, minor characters may die. If you don't para/rene the loyalty conflict, you can lose loyalty.



But none of those are necessary, or required, to save the day.

[CaptainZaysh]

genobis wrote...

You know, if you want to ignore them, you can just take the pass from Qui’in and leave. Going to Anoleis, showing him evidence and provoking conflict IS evil.

In fact it's quite sensible.  At the point you're describing, you can side with the current ruler or with Parasini & Qui'in's coup.

If what you want is justice then you should support the coup.

If all you want is a garage pass then going to Anoleis is the safest bet.  He has the power to just give you the damn pass.  The others have to succeed in their coup attempt before they can give you the pass.

Choosing the latter path might seem unnecessarily cruel to remove a small risk (that Parasini and Qui'in can't pull it off).  But trillions of lives depend upon your ability to get to Peak 15 before Benezia escapes.  You could argue that putting your mission of galactic importance on hold so a corporate cop can complete a fraud investigation is criminally negligent.

If ME1 ran on a clock, you'd find a lot more Spectres willing to sell out the Parasinis of this world in order to make up some time.  Not evil - just willing to accept casualties in order to complete the mission.

[guyhard]

My second character is a "Renagon" engineer. She's nice to her friends and the innocent, ruthless to the corrupt and her enemies. Although she can be distrusting and plain out uncaring at times, she still manages to do good in this galaxy. Her attitude problems and how easy it is to get her angry have caused some disapproval among aliens and humans alike.

[Brannon]

Thanks to all that responded. Zombie Chow in particular for the in depth account of the play through. That's very close to my own idea.

[Momocerus]

I generally act according to my own personality, and this means I always have a Renegon gameplay, being around +50% Paragon and +100% Renegade. For instance, while I let Garrus gun down both Harkin and Sidonis, because that's the kind of person I am (you do bad, you get bad done to you), when Tali found Rael dead on the Alarei and she was in tears, I did hug her to make her feel better... and then I proceeded to give the Admiralty Board a very loud "go **** yourselves". Since I'm the kind of person who doesn't see it necessary to be a complete dick to the people who I'm loyal to and are loyal to me, but is otherwise very pragmatic and absorb Machiavelli's philosophy into my own way of thinking for the most part, this is reflected in my Shep.

I thought it'd be hard to reach certain requirements with a hybrid morality, but I was able to easily resist Morinth in Samara's loyalty mission, soo...

This is also my third full playthrough of the ME trilogy, though.

[insan3Spectre]

Good to know Paragade/Renegon are viable options in ME2. I played Renegon in ME1 and I think it was honestly the most fun I ever had with the game, I basically did what I felt was most natural for the character. With her ruthless background I played her as a get the job done type but, when a character wasn't a real threat I would let them go. For example, I saved the colonists and let Shoals go, but killed the queen and couldn't let Balak go. I loved Shepard's "I"ll gladly let Kate keep me up at night if it keeps your family safe". I paraphrased it, but I thought it was a pretty powerful statement. Same thing for Shepard's intimidate response when asked by the reporter about saving the council.

[GrumpyBadger117]

I often think about renegade as something like a "Clint Eastwood" approach. Aka "get off my lawn" or "do ya feel lucky, punk?!?" which keeps me from thinking it's an automatically "evil" way of going about things.

Most of my characters (I'm on my 7th playthrough of ME1 right now) are a little bit of both. It's a blast I think. I like using charm to make the reporter look like a punk, but I often use renegade to give a reality check when required. For example, in Mass Effect 2, I'll probably punch the reporter