Last Vizard wrote...
1. Its natural to be interested in not only the survival of your own race but to want it to prosper, is the ME galaxy only populated by selfless aliens who would throw themselves on swords for each other? do Batarians wish for humanity to succeed? do you think if the citadel fleets are left weak and crippled and C-secs numbers are devistated that their would be no rise in crime or that pirates wouldn't take advantage of the situation?
Such is why the Council and races amongst the galaxy maintain a wry perspective of humanity. They adhere to the belief should the time arise, the Alliance will serve an ulterior agenda and strive for their own dominance in lieu of defending the galaxy. One could realistically speculate the Turians would evoke a similar ideal if combat arose however, they have proven loyalty. The Turians fought the Krogan and were instrumental in repelling their vanguard. Aye, the Salarian genophage was the primary turning point of the war but even utilizing the bio-weapon. The Council was wholly outmatched in comparison to their adversary. Humanity had yet to prove themselves in equal capacity until the conclusion of Mass Effect.
2. I agree, It felt like it was all up in the air but it still remains that Shepperd tried to warn them several times in person and through holo transmission
Warning them yes but I could warn you about a monster beneath your bed. It does not equate to evidence. ME is riddled with plotholes in this regard though. There was ample opportunities to offer proof Sovereign was more than a Geth warship. Shepard never provided it, hence their reaction.
3. Yes Cerberus is a biased organized whose primary interest is human dominance, I would not want a group in charge that will bend to the will of aliens. 19 years is a long time, as stated in the game, the Turians were surprised by how capable we where as a race during the first contact war, they were trying to keep Mankind's destroyer production low using the 5:3:1 numbers, part of being on the council is having less restrictions to your race's military production... leaving Earth vulnerable if there was a shift of power among the Turian hierarchy and they decided to attack Mankind.
Nineteen years is nothing in comparison to the other races. Avina indicates it usually requires a minimum of a century for a species to be offered an emissary. For a Council position, a species must prove their worth to not only the Council but also the entire galaxy. Humanity had nary accomplished such a feat and could only boast an impressive militia. I have described the Turian’s contribution that warranted them a seat on the Council. The Asari and Salarian were the founding ‘fathers’ so to speak.
4. They were in the most powerful ship in the Citadel fleet during what might have been the final engagement before the relays were locked.... that ship was needed, If they were so selfless then why didn't they accelerate to near FTL speed and crash into the Reaper?
While intrigued by humanity’s military prowess, the Turian had every reason to be weary of our species. Nineteen years is once again barely relevant in determining the benefit and more importantly, the intentions of the unknown. Human arrogance did little to bolster a favorable stance with the aliens, as we were perceived to be defiant, arrogant, and individualistic; all characteristics that harbor strong negative undertones. In actuality, the Turians were displayed tactical intelligence akin to humans by easing into an uncertain alliance upon the beckon of the Governing board but retaining sufficient military in the event hostility broke though.
Consider if you were playing a RTS game and agreed to an alliance with a rival force. Would you conclude it wise to expose a flank by marching your soldiers elsewhere or would you leave a garrison to defend just in case?
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Or nationalistic. Xeno-nationalism is a Council creation in the first place, but nationalism itself is an answer.
Why should my people and my nation (or, simply put, my group) suffer for your nation's advantage?
You are not incorrect but it harbors insinuations you view your people or nation as superior to others. In an alliance, it is the responsibility for all to assist one another should the need arise. To betray such trust is to be labeled an opportunist. Certainly not a tactic worth disregarding and I have favored it myself should I perceive it a benefibut there in lines a stigma.
The Council takes action based upon what's good for the Council. Even when there is proof of something, they can disbelieve and do nothing, or act on less evidence. Battle recordings, multi-member and species witnesses, technological analysis, and even the testimony of an actual Geth will not persuade the Council that Sovereign wasn't a Geth ship. A perported Geth recording of Saren boasting about Eden Prime will persuade them, in light of politics, to turn on their best agent and give Humanity a huge bone.
There was no sufficient reason for the Council to take action, which was their rebuttal repeatedly when Udina and Shepard made demands. In the event Shepard’s visions had been mistaken yet they invaded the Terminus
Systems, it would have led to a war claiming the lives of millions simply due to the wild delusions of a single commander. Every aspect of proof you referenced to was never brought forth to the Council. This was one of the fundamental and most blatant plotholes in Mass Effect. Shepard is a political moron and the game goes to great lengths to unintentionally emphasis this.
I presume you are referring to Legion. He was not present during Mass Effect and subsequent to those events would not be concluded as unbiased. When queried of the ship’s origin or any worthwhile data, even Legion would be incapable of providing an answer and would therefore lead to speculation.
Theydid not turn on Saren to throw humanity a bone. The MP3 file is proper evidences due to Saren’s preceding testimony. He had deliberately denied having been present at Edem Prime and insinuated he had nary a clue of
the beacon. Tali’s file offered proved he lied.
Simple: because humanity is at least the fourth most powerful military force in the galaxy, has a significant chunk of the galactic economy that's already rising as it's economy expands, and has only just started its
colonization. It already possesses the power to set a large part of the galaxy ablaze now, in a losing war, and it's only going to get stronger.
The Alliance affects trillions now. It's policies and potential strengths make it a galactic actor of note, whether it's on the Council or not.
TheCouncil doesn't care about long a civilization plays good citizen: the Volus created the galactic economy and have been waiting for more than a thousand years, only to be bypassed not once but twice by short-term
ascendees. The Hanar and the Elcor have not waited as long as the Volus, the third race to discover the Citadel, but have been good citizens for centuries.
The Turians were given a council membership in return for their role against the Krogan. They were a new species.
The Council doesn't care about virtue or length of time a species waits. The Council is far more basic: it cares about the power of a species. No power, no right to have a say. Humanity does have the power. Humanity will have a say.
I have primarily addressed the bulk of your argument above as to why humanity did not warrant a Council seat
prior to the conclusion of Mass Effect.
The Volus were not offered a seat due to their incapability to provide the necessities deemed required to join the Council. These entail but may not be limited to: military fleets, resources and economic aid in the event disaster strikes, none of which the Volus can accomplish. Thus, it would be a burden upon their own species, if not outrightdetrimental to their survivability. The Hanar and Elcor are of a similar disadvantage and cannot offer what is required. To reiterate once again, an action of extraordinary service is needed for discussion of
being invited to join the Council to commence. Humanity possessed everything excluding this last hurdle until Mass Effect’s conclusion. No other race not presently on the Council could make such a claim and therefore not offered a seat.
Humanity did not have a say until they met the previously described criteria.
Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 02 janvier 2011 - 06:22 .
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