141 réponses à ce sujet

[Last Vizard]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

OP made me lol. I think he was still a little buzzed after new years.

Recieving/needing help is human. Let me guess, you gave birth and breast fed yourself, then put yourself through school...

You're pretty awesome.

.... ^ stupid ^
When hair starts to grow where there was no hair before than you need to start breaking away from the habit of relying on others child, unless your going to bludge off the system.... then you can put the breasts back in your mouth.

[Last Vizard]

robtheguru wrote...

This guy sounds like he'd fit right in with Hitlers cronies lol

I haven't backed any of their goals, in any statement

[PauseforEffect]

Relying on others is a weakness? Alright Shepard, go make your own weapons, build your own ship, fund your own upgrades and go take on the Collectors all by yourself! Because depending on alien allies on a suicide mission is weakness!

Throughout every adult person's life, they are dependant on someone else for success. That is what we call cooperation. Teamwork. Your later comment about humanity needing to use this makes you sound like a hypocrite (a word you misspelled to begin with)

[Sashimi_taco]

I really don't think asking for help is a sign of weakness.

[Melindil]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I really don't think asking for help is a sign of weakness.

I agree. It's quite the opposite.  It often takes an incredible amount of strength to admit to others that we need assistance, even with the most mundane tasks.  Asking for help to save the galaxy is hardly mundane.

Modifié par Melindil, 02 janvier 2011 - 07:56 .

[Last Vizard]

PrimalEden wrote...

Relying on others is a weakness? Alright Shepard, go make your own weapons, build your own ship, fund your own upgrades and go take on the Collectors all by yourself! Because depending on alien allies on a suicide mission is weakness!
Throughout every adult person's life, they are dependant on someone else for success. That is what we call cooperation. Teamwork. Your later comment about humanity needing to use this makes you sound like a hypocrite (a word you misspelled to begin with)

I think your missing the point of what i was saying and taken the supply chain and everything else into account....
yes you need to rely on the person who makes the guns and ammo, the guy who builds the ships and such, but there is no other way it can be done.  I think its funny that the main problem alot of people have with my main post is saying that its weak to rely on others... I did not say at any point say that I myself wasn't weak in certain things, english is one of mine.
I was a C student in english so I relied on my friends to help me achieve B marks....  They relied on me to help them with maths and biology... thats was weak, there were people who could get A marks in every subject and that makes them stronger than us other guys academically.

The ship is full of the best(strongest in their fields) coming together to (get him from point A to point B for the most part) help Shepperd succede.... that didn't make him weak because ther is no alternative way he could've done it.
which bring me back to Earth, if we can't even protect our own home planet then we are weak, it all comes down to greed, weak leaders and unoriginal defence plans/designs/tactics.

[Sashimi_taco]

Last Vizard wrote...

  I think its funny that the main problem alot of people have with my main post is saying that its weak to rely on others... I did not say at any point say that I myself wasn't weak in certain things, english is one of mine.
I was a C student in english so I relied on my friends to help me achieve B marks....  They relied on me to help them with maths and biology... thats was weak, there were people who could get A marks in every subject and that makes them stronger than us other guys academically.

Edit : nevermind i'm being off topic. 

Modifié par Sashimi_taco, 02 janvier 2011 - 11:33 .

[Dionkey]

Last Vizard wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

OP made me lol. I think he was still a little buzzed after new years.

Recieving/needing help is human. Let me guess, you gave birth and breast fed yourself, then put yourself through school...

You're pretty awesome.

.... ^ stupid ^
When hair starts to grow where there was no hair before than you need to start breaking away from the habit of relying on others child, unless your going to bludge off the system.... then you can put the breasts back in your mouth.

This is just stupid. The time you don't take help is when you are trying to save others the trouble. Humanity can't win alone, they will lose. You will need the entire flotilla and the citadel fleet to have fighting chance. Your willing to risk the entire galaxy on some pride BS.

Note: Replying on this thread with MGS2 theme playing is epic.

[Aurica]

Last Vizard wrote...
I was a C student in english so I relied
on my friends to help me achieve B marks....  They relied on me to help
them with maths and biology... thats was weak, there were people who
could get A marks in every subject and that makes them stronger than us
other guys academically.

So you think its weak to rely on others and it annoys you?  See the above isn't exactly weakness, your just trading benefits.  You help me and I help you.  Nothing unusual or weak about that. 

I see everyone as being born different and unique.  Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses.  Someone who is academically weak might excel in other areas, someone who is strong academically might be weak in other areas.  Its like a local bad boy who gets terrible grades but all the chicks seems to fall for him.  Or like the nerdy geek who is awesome at school but has absolute klutz at landing even a date.  The above is just an analogy, i'm sure there are other scenarios you can think of.

Relying on some alien help is by no means a sign of weakness.  This is a threat not seen before and the scale of it is unprecedented.  This most certainly warrants and justify getting help in anyway we can.  Bearing in mind that the Aliens should also have an interest to do so since this threatens not just us but them as well. 

You saw the aliens as weak and conveniently allowed them to perish aboard the Destiny Acension.  There is no doubt the council races will remember your actions during the battle of the citadel. 
Now there is a huge possibility that the premise of ME3 involves getting the help from the said Aliens.   I'm guessing this irks you because humanity is now seen as "weak" in your eyes if this turns out to be true. 

Maybe also because this is going to bite you back in the ass and now your Shepard is going to swallow his pride to plead the aliens to help when you first let them die.

Modifié par Aurica, 03 janvier 2011 - 12:21 .

[PauseforEffect]

Then pick your words more carefully Last Vizard. You condemned weakness while saying the weak should be protected. Which is it? Who's to say humanity does not deserve to die then for relying on the Council to save them from huge losses against the Turians during the First Contact War?

[The Unfallen]

I hate these human supremacists, they are mostly arrogant and ignorant to the cultures and lifestyles of the other species of the Galaxy, and don't realize the strength Humanity can gain by becoming friends with their neighbors instead of trying to consistently subvert them under one roof.



It is sickening, and no different from the motives of the Third Reich. Humans can learn a lot from the civilizations of the Galaxy.

[Neow]

"Reason 3. Why the hell should it take so long for us to be given a seat on the council? from what i read on Cerberus news, the Turians just do whatever the hell the want, there is no enlightenment needed to be on the council, so i wanted to kill them for being hipocrites"



All Turians, Salarians and Asari took hundred of years before they were granted the council seats. Human only took 60 years.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Last Vizard wrote...

I think your missing the point of what i was saying and taken the supply chain and everything else into account....
yes you need to rely on the person who makes the guns and ammo, the guy who builds the ships and such, but there is no other way it can be done.  I think its funny that the main problem alot of people have with my main post is saying that its weak to rely on others... I did not say at any point say that I myself wasn't weak in certain things, english is one of mine.
I was a C student in english so I relied on my friends to help me achieve B marks....  They relied on me to help them with maths and biology... thats was weak, there were people who could get A marks in every subject and that makes them stronger than us other guys academically.

The ship is full of the best(strongest in their fields) coming together to (get him from point A to point B for the most part) help Shepperd succede.... that didn't make him weak because ther is no alternative way he could've done it.
which bring me back to Earth, if we can't even protect our own home planet then we are weak, it all comes down to greed, weak leaders and unoriginal defence plans/designs/tactics.

I suppose you being a C student in English also gimped your critical thinking skills? Because your arguments so far are highly hypocritical and very flawed.

Weakness is relative. Reapers are basically big AI constructs, which are inherently superior to organics like humans, salarians and turians. Their main strengths are superior intellect and firepower. If humanity was too proud or xenophobic to accept help from other races, that would be a major weakness on our part. A flaw. A weakness that the Reapers could effortlessly exploit. Therefore, if we went at it by ourselves, we would be weak.

If we allow flaws in our society like xenophobia to dictate our actions, we effectively make ourselves weak in relation to the most powerful race in the galaxy. We become more predictable. We become more vulnerable.

What about the other species? Would they ally themselves nonetheless, thereby leaving us to our own defenses? What would that make us? Not only would we still be weak in relation to the Reapers, we'd now be weak in comparison to the others who decided to pool their resources and their fleets. We'd gain nothing.

We'd also be pretty damn weak by the end of it, with all of our fleets in ruins and our home planet in flames.


I mean, the OP is so SO wrong on this, it boggles my mind. What the heck, man?

[Last Vizard]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

I think your missing the point of what i was saying and taken the supply chain and everything else into account....
yes you need to rely on the person who makes the guns and ammo, the guy who builds the ships and such, but there is no other way it can be done.  I think its funny that the main problem alot of people have with my main post is saying that its weak to rely on others... I did not say at any point say that I myself wasn't weak in certain things, english is one of mine.
I was a C student in english so I relied on my friends to help me achieve B marks....  They relied on me to help them with maths and biology... thats was weak, there were people who could get A marks in every subject and that makes them stronger than us other guys academically.

The ship is full of the best(strongest in their fields) coming together to (get him from point A to point B for the most part) help Shepperd succede.... that didn't make him weak because ther is no alternative way he could've done it.
which bring me back to Earth, if we can't even protect our own home planet then we are weak, it all comes down to greed, weak leaders and unoriginal defence plans/designs/tactics.

I suppose you being a C student in English also gimped your critical thinking skills? Because your arguments so far are highly hypocritical and very flawed.

Weakness is relative. Reapers are basically big AI constructs, which are inherently superior to organics like humans, salarians and turians. Their main strengths are superior intellect and firepower. If humanity was too proud or xenophobic to accept help from other races, that would be a major weakness on our part. A flaw. A weakness that the Reapers could effortlessly exploit. Therefore, if we went at it by ourselves, we would be weak.

If we allow flaws in our society like xenophobia to dictate our actions, we effectively make ourselves weak in relation to the most powerful race in the galaxy. We become more predictable. We become more vulnerable.

What about the other species? Would they ally themselves nonetheless, thereby leaving us to our own defenses? What would that make us? Not only would we still be weak in relation to the Reapers, we'd now be weak in comparison to the others who decided to pool their resources and their fleets. We'd gain nothing.

We'd also be pretty damn weak by the end of it, with all of our fleets in ruins and our home planet in flames.


I mean, the OP is so SO wrong on this, it boggles my mind. What the heck, man?

The very first thing i said in in the first post:

I don't like the idea of getting alien help to save Earth, i'm the type of person that gets annoyed when someone offers help... its a sign of weakness to need help, i will give help without expecting anything in return though, If Earth is saved soley by aliens then i will be very dissapointed in our race.


I did not say that i wouldn't call the Aliens to the aid of Earth, i just said i would be annoyed and dissapointed, I also said that:

Don't get me wrong, I understand the threat the Reapers pose, i just want a damn good reason for them making it to Earth, the Relays are a little loop hole to imposible task it is to travel faster than light.... ok now this is where someone says "but Reapers are advance and stuff" how then did 5th fleet kill one? it wasn't a transdimentional ship that could create or destroy matter with nothing but a thought, they are just a little more advance than us

I think emotions for alot of people went wild when I said its weak to need the help of others, do I think the organic races in ME are weak for needing to band togeter to defeat the Reapers? Yes, but the fact that the Reapers limit the length of time we can develop means they fear us, we are unpridictable and thats why they built the relays and citadel....

In one of my posts i did say that i would be tempted to let ourselves die if we didn't come up with any weapons and methods of defence that were created by thinking "outside of the citadel box".... whats the point if all races become carbon copies of each other.

[Last Vizard]

PrimalEden wrote...

Then pick your words more carefully Last Vizard. You condemned weakness while saying the weak should be protected. Which is it? Who's to say humanity does not deserve to die then for relying on the Council to save them from huge losses against the Turians during the First Contact War?

Yes we would have been destroyed, but to be fair "It was our first day", as a race we are still young and we are trading punches with a veteran race... we took the planet back with a surprise attack and then the council intervened and saved us (we didn't ask to be saved). 

My opinion of the council was pretty high when i started playing ME 1, untill i addressed them.

[Tasker]

The Reapers are probably attacking more than just Earth, a small group of Reapers ( or even a single Reaper ) would be enough to take out a planet like Earth.

Divide and conquer, if the whole Alliance fleet can take out a Reaper, then send a Reaper to each inhabited system forcing them to split up to come after you, meaning they then aren't powerfull enough to take you out, meaning you wipe them out instead.

What if in ME3 we have to decide who to save?

Maybe Earth is the choice if you team up with Cerberus and the Citadel is the choice if you go back to being a Spectre.

Probably have missions on both but with different outcomes at the end.

Modifié par Orkboy, 03 janvier 2011 - 06:42 .

[Pyroknightier]

Last Vizard wrote...

Yes we would have been destroyed, but to be fair "It was our first day", as a race we are still young and we are trading punches with a veteran race... we took the planet back with a surprise attack and then the council intervened and saved us (we didn't ask to be saved).

 
My opinion of the council was pretty high when i started playing ME 1, untill i addressed them.

I suppose continued war with the Turians and thousands of deaths from both sides would appeal to you rather than an agreed peace between two races.

You seem to believe that a race or species would be imcompetent just because they're represented by a miniscule minority. And somehow every alien are selfish beings because their culture and race tells them to.

Last Vizard wrote...

At the end of ME1 in the battle for the citadel, i let the council die along with 10,000 equally weak aliens... The weak need to be protected by the strong unless they are fools, then they can sleep in the beds they made...
Reason 1. I wasn't sure if helping them would cause more losses to 5th fleet than need be
Reason 2. I wanted to see if a new council would listen.... and we all know how that goes in ME2, but as much as i hate it, it is realistic that they want to take the easy option and just say it was a Geth Dreadnaught (we all know how weak the leaders of today are)
Reason 3. Why the hell should it take so long for us to be given a seat on the council? from what i read on Cerberus news, the Turians just do whatever the hell the want, there is no enlightenment needed to be on the council, so i wanted to kill them for being hipocrites
Reason 4. Don't get me started on the Asari.... they are parasites that needs the DNA of other races to continue to evolve, that waste of credits dreadnaught the Asari built was nothing but a way for the cowards on the council to run from the citadel...

Do a role reversal with humans and Turians/Asari, and you'll see we're no better.

And we're not going to tell the "parasite" asaris to get lost and risk extinction just because they look and act different from us. That's just stupid and racist.

Well, it could be worse. With the defeat of the reapers without help from anyone else, Earth would be in ruins and we'll be eating food paste while the council would probably celebrate drink themselves to death.

Modifié par Pyroknightier, 03 janvier 2011 - 07:13 .

[88mphSlayer]

Orkboy wrote...

The Reapers are probably attacking more than just Earth, a small group of Reapers ( or even a single Reaper ) would be enough to take out a planet like Earth.

Divide and conquer, if the whole Alliance fleet can take out a Reaper, then send a Reaper to each inhabited system forcing them to split up to come after you, meaning they then aren't powerfull enough to take you out, meaning you wipe them out instead.

What if in ME3 we have to decide who to save?

Maybe Earth is the choice if you team up with Cerberus and the Citadel is the choice if you go back to being a Spectre.

Probably have missions on both but with different outcomes at the end.

i think ME3 will probably all be about earth since the events of ME1 placed humanity as the biggest military power in the galaxy, the reapers taking out earth (the biggest human population center) would be a huge blow to the entire galaxy... furthermore Vigil mentioned in ME1 that it took the reapers centuries to complete their mission (genocide and eradicating evidence) so they could probably just focus on earth and have plenty of time to take out everybody else (plus we'd provide an excellent source of husks/slaves to help destroy the rest of the galaxy if they don't totally reaperize us)... my guess tho is that ME3 will have a lot of choices on who to ally yourself with, as the Turians and Asari probably aren't full strength we'll need to find unlikely allies in the Quarians, Geth and maybe even Krogan

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:38 .

[Last Vizard]

88mphSlayer wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

The Reapers are probably attacking more than just Earth, a small group of Reapers ( or even a single Reaper ) would be enough to take out a planet like Earth.

Divide and conquer, if the whole Alliance fleet can take out a Reaper, then send a Reaper to each inhabited system forcing them to split up to come after you, meaning they then aren't powerfull enough to take you out, meaning you wipe them out instead.

What if in ME3 we have to decide who to save?

Maybe Earth is the choice if you team up with Cerberus and the Citadel is the choice if you go back to being a Spectre.

Probably have missions on both but with different outcomes at the end.

i think ME3 will probably all be about earth since the events of ME1 placed humanity as the biggest military power in the galaxy, the reapers taking out earth (the biggest human population center) would be a huge blow to the entire galaxy... furthermore Vigil mentioned in ME1 that it took the reapers centuries to complete their mission (genocide and eradicating evidence) so they could probably just focus on earth and have plenty of time to take out everybody else (plus we'd provide an excellent source of husks/slaves to help destroy the rest of the galaxy if they don't totally reaperize us)... my guess tho is that ME3 will have a lot of choices on who to ally yourself with, as the Turians and Asari probably aren't full strength we'll need to find unlikely allies in the Quarians, Geth and maybe even Krogan

Yes you do have a point but infallible machines wouldn't focus their entire military force at one planet giving the other races time to build ships and rally together.... Vagabond said it take centuries for the Reapers to complete their mission when everything is going according to plan, with each system isolated from each other with all relays locked.

[Bogsnot1]

Last Vizard wrote...

I don't like the idea of getting alien help to save Earth, i'm the type of person that gets annoyed when someone offers help... its a sign of weakness to need help,

I'll remember that if i ever see you bleeding profusely on the roadside someday.

[lovgreno]

Melindil wrote...

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I really don't think asking for help is a sign of weakness.

I agree. It's quite the opposite.  It often takes an incredible amount of strength to admit to others that we need assistance, even with the most mundane tasks.  Asking for help to save the galaxy is hardly mundane.

Yep. It takes some balls of steel to admit that you are weak. But that is what everyone is: Weak and in need of help. Part of the process of growing up as a human is to admit this very uncomfortable truth. But Shepard is a total badass who are tough enough to ask even a totaly untrustworthy and shady guy like TIMmy for help. Sure it's hard like hell for Shepard to swallow their pride but he/she has been forced to do so before and will surely have to do so again, kind of like it is in real life actualy. This makes Shepard more heroical in my eyes.

[88mphSlayer]

Last Vizard wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

The Reapers are probably attacking more than just Earth, a small group of Reapers ( or even a single Reaper ) would be enough to take out a planet like Earth.

Divide and conquer, if the whole Alliance fleet can take out a Reaper, then send a Reaper to each inhabited system forcing them to split up to come after you, meaning they then aren't powerfull enough to take you out, meaning you wipe them out instead.

What if in ME3 we have to decide who to save?

Maybe Earth is the choice if you team up with Cerberus and the Citadel is the choice if you go back to being a Spectre.

Probably have missions on both but with different outcomes at the end.

i think ME3 will probably all be about earth since the events of ME1 placed humanity as the biggest military power in the galaxy, the reapers taking out earth (the biggest human population center) would be a huge blow to the entire galaxy... furthermore Vigil mentioned in ME1 that it took the reapers centuries to complete their mission (genocide and eradicating evidence) so they could probably just focus on earth and have plenty of time to take out everybody else (plus we'd provide an excellent source of husks/slaves to help destroy the rest of the galaxy if they don't totally reaperize us)... my guess tho is that ME3 will have a lot of choices on who to ally yourself with, as the Turians and Asari probably aren't full strength we'll need to find unlikely allies in the Quarians, Geth and maybe even Krogan

Yes you do have a point but infallible machines wouldn't focus their entire military force at one planet giving the other races time to build ships and rally together.... Vagabond said it take centuries for the Reapers to complete their mission when everything is going according to plan, with each system isolated from each other with all relays locked.

all the same tho, that's assuming the reapers have continued the cycle each time with the same exact plan and same kind of success every 50,000 years, what Shepard is doing now might've been repeated 200,000 years ago and the reapers still won, who knows

[Last Vizard]

88mphSlayer wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

The Reapers are probably attacking more than just Earth, a small group of Reapers ( or even a single Reaper ) would be enough to take out a planet like Earth.

Divide and conquer, if the whole Alliance fleet can take out a Reaper, then send a Reaper to each inhabited system forcing them to split up to come after you, meaning they then aren't powerfull enough to take you out, meaning you wipe them out instead.

What if in ME3 we have to decide who to save?

Maybe Earth is the choice if you team up with Cerberus and the Citadel is the choice if you go back to being a Spectre.

Probably have missions on both but with different outcomes at the end.

i think ME3 will probably all be about earth since the events of ME1 placed humanity as the biggest military power in the galaxy, the reapers taking out earth (the biggest human population center) would be a huge blow to the entire galaxy... furthermore Vigil mentioned in ME1 that it took the reapers centuries to complete their mission (genocide and eradicating evidence) so they could probably just focus on earth and have plenty of time to take out everybody else (plus we'd provide an excellent source of husks/slaves to help destroy the rest of the galaxy if they don't totally reaperize us)... my guess tho is that ME3 will have a lot of choices on who to ally yourself with, as the Turians and Asari probably aren't full strength we'll need to find unlikely allies in the Quarians, Geth and maybe even Krogan

Yes you do have a point but infallible machines wouldn't focus their entire military force at one planet giving the other races time to build ships and rally together.... Vagabond said it take centuries for the Reapers to complete their mission when everything is going according to plan, with each system isolated from each other with all relays locked.

all the same tho, that's assuming the reapers have continued the cycle each time with the same exact plan and same kind of success every 50,000 years, what Shepard is doing now might've been repeated 200,000 years ago and the reapers still won, who knows

Wouldn't they redesign the system? ME 1 to ME 3 is the story of the cyclebeing broken for the first time since the beginning, there is no back door to dark space (apart from citadel) the collector base can't indoctrinate anyone (otherwise the Collectors wouldn've used the quick process that turns the targets into mindless tools) and Reaper technology has already fallen into the hands of Citadel races.... they are strong, but their system is broken (there will be monuments to Protheans and the race that built the Mass accelerator cannon...IFF mission, because they are the ones that gave us this chance to fight back).