141 réponses à ce sujet

[Last Vizard]

lovgreno wrote...

Melindil wrote...

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I really don't think asking for help is a sign of weakness.

I agree. It's quite the opposite.  It often takes an incredible amount of strength to admit to others that we need assistance, even with the most mundane tasks.  Asking for help to save the galaxy is hardly mundane.

Yep. It takes some balls of steel to admit that you are weak. But that is what everyone is: Weak and in need of help. Part of the process of growing up as a human is to admit this very uncomfortable truth. But Shepard is a total badass who are tough enough to ask even a totaly untrustworthy and shady guy like TIMmy for help. Sure it's hard like hell for Shepard to swallow their pride but he/she has been forced to do so before and will surely have to do so again, kind of like it is in real life actualy. This makes Shepard more heroical in my eyes.

Yes yes, you people can all hug each other, its a happy world where noone has to try and achieve anything themselves.... Where it takes two people to screw in a lamp, two people to change a flat tyre, two people to defend oneself against a single aggressor and so on..... how about we just discus ME 3 Earth and if it should or shouldn't be in trouble (mainly defences and or how the Reapers are going to sneak up on Earth?) oh and no other cycle race has had this much notice and Reaper technology to help build weapons to defend itself. (The Weapon that damaged the IFF mission Reaper could've been constructed as a deterrent to another cycle race).

[Fayfel]

I don't think that humanity is the dominate economic/military power that so many seem to think they are. Certainly not strong enough to take on the Reapers, or even put up a good fight against them alone. Hell, I would imagine that there are turian colony worlds that by themselves, match or beat humanity in terms of who has the larger economy/military/population/etc.

[-flashblade-]

Last Vizard you do realize that this "humanity is awesome and humans first" stuff is actually national socialist ideology, do you? But of course we are talking about alien species here so as long as we are not talking about our own people those views become perfectly acceptable. It is sickening to see what people crawl out of the woodwork here sometimes!

Amakiir wrote...

I don't think that humanity is the dominate economic/military power that so many seem to think they are. Certainly not strong enough to take on the Reapers, or even put up a good fight against them alone. Hell, I would imagine that there are turian colony worlds that by themselves, match or beat humanity in terms of who has the larger economy/military/population/etc.

I think this misconception exists because all weapons that are available throughout the game, except the Geth pulse rifle, look as if they originated from humanity. Really the pulse rifle aside not one weapons looks Turian, Asari or Krogan, you name it....

And to all you people all over this thread who have said that humanity is great, I think you need a severe dose of realism. We are great in what way exactly, hmm? We are destroying species left and right, we are burning forest left and right. Our economy all over the world is pure insanity that burns through resources like crazy in redundant production as if they were endless which they are not. We let people ignore safety measures which in turn cause unspeakable damage to the environment and let them get away with it. Most people of our population live off of scraps and in the poorest conditions thinkable while the wealthy of us keep praying on them either on purpose or in ignorance. We repeatedly screw each other over for paper that has no more value than what we allow it to have, which is world governing power. We fight each other in wars for resources and dress it up as if we were fighting for freedom and justice, a downright laughable excuse.

Just a small but significant selection. So in what way are we great, really?

Modifié par -flashblade-, 06 janvier 2011 - 09:38 .

[Last Vizard]

Amakiir wrote...

I don't think that humanity is the dominate economic/military power that so many seem to think they are. Certainly not strong enough to take on the Reapers, or even put up a good fight against them alone. Hell, I would imagine that there are turian colony worlds that by themselves, match or beat humanity in terms of who has the larger economy/military/population/etc.

The thing is that no race builds weapons in to protect itself against Reaper invasion.... we know they are coming, why couldn't we build the weapons (conventional or unconventional) to stop the Reapers? i'm sure there would not only be enough money but also enough time to build them.... how large was the total Earth military production in WW2?

[Aimi]

Amakiir wrote...

I don't think that humanity is the dominate economic/military power that so many seem to think they are. Certainly not strong enough to take on the Reapers, or even put up a good fight against them alone. Hell, I would imagine that there are turian colony worlds that by themselves, match or beat humanity in terms of who has the larger economy/military/population/etc.

The first game would have seemed to have been conclusive on this point, that humanity was an upstart with potential and good propaganda, but just that: an upstart.  The second game pushes the point in different, slightly more subtle ways, like how Jacob comments on how the asari are so much more advanced, yet their foibles are so similar to those of humanity in Eternity on Illium.  I doubt it extends as far as "humanity is weaker than a single turian colony world", but humanity is clearly not meant to be a galaxy-bestriding colossus.  Of course, I imagine that Renegade Shep could make it that way in the third game by beating the Reapers and the other Citadel races with one hand tied behind her back and no squadmates, or something.

[Last Vizard]

-flashblade- wrote...

Last Vizard you do realize that this "humanity is awesome and humans first" stuff is actually national socialist ideology, do you? But of course we are talking about alien species here so as long as we are not talking about our own people those views become perfectly acceptable. It is sickening to see what people crawl out of the woodwork here sometimes!

Amakiir wrote...

I don't think that humanity is the dominate economic/military power that so many seem to think they are. Certainly not strong enough to take on the Reapers, or even put up a good fight against them alone. Hell, I would imagine that there are turian colony worlds that by themselves, match or beat humanity in terms of who has the larger economy/military/population/etc.

I think this misconception exists because all weapons that are available throughout the game, except the Geth pulse rifle, look as if they originated from humanity. Really the pulse rifle aside not one weapons looks Turian, Asari or Krogan, you name it....

And to all you people all over this thread who have said that humanity is great, I think you need a severe dose of realism. We are great in what way exactly, hmm? We are destroying species left and right, we are burning forest left and right. Our economy all over the world is pure insanity that burns through resources like crazy in redundant production as if they were endless which they are not. We let people ignore safety measures which in turn cause unspeakable damage to the environment and let them get away with it. Most people of our population live off of scraps and in the poorest conditions thinkable while the wealthy of us keep praying on them either on purpose or in ignorance. We repeatedly screw each other over for paper that has no more value than what we allow it to have, which is world governing power. We fight each other in wars for resources and dress it up as if we were fighting for freedom and justice, a downright laughable excuse.

Just a small but significant selection. So in what way are we great, really?

1. Your talking about America for the most part (little bit of war for oil)... the prices of oil in Australia are much much higher than in America....
2. Australia uses plastic money
3. Australian economy is stronger than its every been (the only thing that can destroy it is if China and India stop
producing power using coal and stop smelting metal)...
4. Anyone remember the dinosaurs? the impact that killed them is estimated to have killed over 90% of the worlds biomass....
5. Clean technology is getting more advance all the time
6. In the real world everyone can't win....
7. Australia is one of the only places where rain forests are growing..... we look after our piece of the world
8. Australia works as a peace keeper in our part of the world and donates large amounts of money to our poor neibours...

I didn't crawl... it was more of a climbing out of the wood work.... I don't think its a very realistic view to believe that something like the council in ME could work to start with, do you support what was done to the Krogan or the Rachni races?

[pprrff]

oh great, someone dropped the **** bomb. Back to the topic of Actual game:

If you look at the game, it's heavily hinted that human are special and human are great, that's why Reapers are so interested. While I am sure having a united galaxy fight off the threat will bring warm fuzzy feeling to a lot of player, I am almost positive that the renegade route will have you flipping the bird to all the other race and lead humanity to triumph alone.


OFFTOPIC: Don't **** on America. We done bad stuff and we have done good stuff too. Almost of the technological advance in the latter 20th twentieth originated in the US, and we were instrumental in recovery of the western world after WWII, not mention providing the frame work of global integration for the last 50 years. 

Modifié par pprrff, 06 janvier 2011 - 06:13 .

[PauseforEffect]

Last Vizard wrote...

Yes we would have been destroyed, but to be fair "It was our first day", as a race we are still young and we are trading punches with a veteran race... we took the planet back with a surprise attack and then the council intervened and saved us (we didn't ask to be saved). 

My opinion of the council was pretty high when i started playing ME 1, untill i addressed them.

My question still stands, do the weak deserve to be protected? Whether they consent to be helped or whether they deserve it should not factor upon your principles. Your examples have a double standard.
Of course humanity did not ask for help or intervention; they didn't know there were other aliens other than the Turians and they were rather busy focusing on the threat they posed. Despite the fact that humans were digging their own hole, as you say, by opening up relays and breaking galactic law, ignorance levied the Council's support towards them. When the Council was in danger from Sovereign, the best that can be said in their defense was ignorance as well. While they could not take Shepard's  word alone, they gave the commander power to take action in order to protect them and through them, the galactic community. If you're going to ask quarter for the sake of humanity then spare quarter towards the  Council as well. Killing them off like that just contradicts your claim that the weak deserve protection.
You're very attentive towards the posters on your thread. At least you're taking the time to explain your reasons.

[Last Vizard]

pprrff wrote...

oh great, someone dropped the **** bomb. Back to the topic of Actual game:

If you look at the game, it's heavily hinted that human are special and human are great, that's why Reapers are so interested. While I am sure having a united galaxy fight off the threat will bring warm fuzzy feeling to a lot of player, I am almost positive that the renegade route will have you flipping the bird to all the other race and lead humanity to triumph alone.


OFFTOPIC: Don't **** on America. We done bad stuff and we have done good stuff too. Almost of the technological advance in the latter 20th twentieth originated in the US, and we were instrumental in recovery of the western world after WWII, not mention providing the frame work of global integration for the last 50 years. 

Yes, Shortly after the battle of Kokoda in new guinea, Australia being out manned and out gunned 10-1 and we still sent the Japanese packing with the aid of the Natives or fuzzies (not an insult but a nickname you would give to a good mate) who helped us ambush and retreat using almost impassable terrain to our advantage while also helping us move the wounded.   America helped us completely drive away the Japs while the brits had turned their backs on us!...   Lest we forget

But that doesn't absovle the weak and corrupt leaders of today.... now back to ME universe

[Last Vizard]

PrimalEden wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Yes we would have been destroyed, but to be fair "It was our first day", as a race we are still young and we are trading punches with a veteran race... we took the planet back with a surprise attack and then the council intervened and saved us (we didn't ask to be saved). 

My opinion of the council was pretty high when i started playing ME 1, untill i addressed them.

My question still stands, do the weak deserve to be protected? Whether they consent to be helped or whether they deserve it should not factor upon your principles. Your examples have a double standard.
Of course humanity did not ask for help or intervention; they didn't know there were other aliens other than the Turians and they were rather busy focusing on the threat they posed. Despite the fact that humans were digging their own hole, as you say, by opening up relays and breaking galactic law, ignorance levied the Council's support towards them. When the Council was in danger from Sovereign, the best that can be said in their defense was ignorance as well. While they could not take Shepard's  word alone, they gave the commander power to take action in order to protect them and through them, the galactic community. If you're going to ask quarter for the sake of humanity then spare quarter towards the  Council as well. Killing them off like that just contradicts your claim that the weak deserve protection.
You're very attentive towards the posters on your thread. At least you're taking the time to explain your reasons.

Yes, even after finding a BLOODY research base on mars the majority of people still thought that aliens were some distant thing never to be seen or interacted with gently or in a rough anal manner....

It is the burden of the strong to protect the weak, If the people charged with defending Earth are useless wastes of space that are completely unimaginative and lead us to needing help from the "stronger space monsters" then yes... they have to come save us (I'm gonna be one p!ssed off son of a b!tch though if they don't have a really good reason why we fail to protect ourselvs).   I'm an organic whose strong sense of pride allows me to be unpredictable and have double standards when i apply logic.

The council dropped the ball in a colossal way (this next bit is Sylvester Stallone in the movie Judge Dread)
"Crime... Endangering all advanced sentient life in the galaxy, Punishment... Death by Heretical AI"

Juvenile but that was the reason for the most part, I don't dislike Aliens all together, the Batarians on Omega in the plague district that were going to kill Mordins assistant, i let them go free because they kept their word.  the one thing i hate more than liars are betrayers.... I really don't like politicians. 

Turians: I respect their strong morals, throw in a Katana and we have some samurai (still "Us or them")
Quarians: something about them i really like... (Tali) i think its mainly the fact that they are the underdogs of ME.
Batarians: Half Half, I can uderstand why they attack human colonies in the hope of removing us from the Terminus system but... "Us or them"
Geth: In ME 1 i always said to my friends that it would be cool to have a Geth on your team.. they said "but you couldn't because its just mobile platforms that you fight... not the actual Geth" (yes i danced the victory dance)
Asari: Really don't like them....  they can't have too many geniuses that live for a thousand years.... Einstein and Hawking would achieve impossible things if they could live for that amount of time, Asari biotics are way too OP compared to Shepperds, Kaiden said in ME 1 that your more powerful than L2s even though your an L3. (also they B!tch up if you Kill the council and stop producing ships.... chicks have no place on the battle field, Men are just built differently)(I do bloody support Equality too!)(fun fact, Male skin is up to ten times thicker and less sensitive than our better halves)
Volus: I really don't like small dogs... how the hell did these things survive predation?  yes i do know some sick people do breed them like that.
Hanar: Interesting but stupid Jellies, they are too soft and kindhearted (Zero threat if outside of strangling range)
Elcor: I think god went too far with this joke (nope still funny)
Krogan: I really like this race, but they do reproduce too much and it killed me to have to destroy the cure twice
Vorcha: Should be prohibited from all Human worlds at the very least
Rachni: I think the Queen might have a thing for male Shepperd, either way they will never attack Earth unless we are nuking their home world or something

these are the simplified opinions i have on the other races.... ( hahaha i'm going to cop some flak from alot of guys who play as Fem Shep and go for the F on F Asari action)

Thank you PrimalEden, I was interested to see if other people thought Earth should have some mind blowingly inovative defences (that the Reapers still manage to get through after heavy losses) but instead i get told that i'm some sort of ME neo N @ zzie human supremist BFFof H  Itler LOL because i don't fully trust Aliens and think that we shouldn't settle for being equal to an Elcor/Volus/Hanar/Vorcha.... and should aim to oneday be the sole leaders of the ME galaxy.

[Nashiktal]

You want a good reason we cant defend ourselves? Fine here we go.

1. The most obvious one. We don't have the manpower to take out all the reapers focusing on earth.



2. We dont have the tech. Though tech advances have been happening, weapons like the Thanix cannon are not even close to standard. The Normandy SR2 before upgrades is top of the line, advance prototype stuff. The upgrades even more so. (Think tantalus drive in ME1 Only the Nomrandy had the new drive.)



3.Humanity isnt even united. The left isnt communicating with the right as they say. The alliance "represents" humanity. However all the individual nations are still that, individual. The alliance only became important after the aliens showed up. Then you have colonies with anti-alliance sentiments, which leads to humanity being one big scattered race.



The vast majority of Humanities population reside on earth. A few million have branched out to begin colonies, but the oldest human colony is less than two decades old. Even with large population growth, thats not much.



4. Depends on choices. Did you let the council die? Well good job. Now our fleets are overextended and scattered about the Galaxy. Not only did you decide to boot out the council, but you saw fit to place a 20 year old race, (galactic faring) at the head of govenment that has lasted for thousands of years. All that manpower is currently trying to deal with pissed of Turians, Asari who have given up, and Salarians who are allied with the two.



Paragon situation isnt as bad, but human manpower is still going to help defend the citadel. If the fleet leaves to try and help earth, suddenly the citadel is vulnerable again.



No matter what humanity is in a ****** poor position to defend itself from the reapers. Especially considering a reaper can take the firepower from a whole fleet and laugh it off.

[-flashblade-]

Last Vizard wrote...
1. Your talking about America for the most part (little bit of war for oil)... the prices of oil in Australia are much much higher than in America....
2. Australia uses plastic money
3. Australian economy is stronger than its every been (the only thing that can destroy it is if China and India stop
producing power using coal and stop smelting metal)...
4. Anyone remember the dinosaurs? the impact that killed them is estimated to have killed over 90% of the worlds biomass....
5. Clean technology is getting more advance all the time
6. In the real world everyone can't win....
7. Australia is one of the only places where rain forests are growing..... we look after our piece of the world
8. Australia works as a peace keeper in our part of the world and donates large amounts of money to our poor neibours...

I didn't crawl... it was more of a climbing out of the wood work.... I don't think its a very realistic view to believe that something like the council in ME could work to start with, do you support what was done to the Krogan or the Rachni races?

1. No I am not, I am talking about all wars that have ever taken place. It doesn't matter what you can read in the history books. Its been about resources and it always has been, it always will be. Everything else is a smoke cover excuse to justify the conflict.
2. So what? Don't take what I say too literaly it changes nothing. It would be more accurate to say most of it is not paper and coins but 1s and 0s in a computer, which is even more insane as far as I am concerned.
3. Great, so what?
4. So that is actually an excuse right? That is an excuse not to go about things on this planet responsibly, because a natural disaster beyond anyones control did that? You have got to be kidding me...
5. True, but we never choose the best option available namely those that won't generate a profit, because we have to maintain our insane economy.
6. Untrue, we are only making it this way. It is not a law of nature like gravity is.
7. That is commendable of the Australian people.
8. Let me ask you something? Is that money earmarked?

No I do not support what the council did to the Krogan or the Rachni, but what is your point here? That the mistakes the council made, justifiy a similar approach? What I do definitely see as wrong is a council that only consists of humans speaking for all the council races. That is wrong!

Modifié par -flashblade-, 07 janvier 2011 - 11:53 .

[Nashiktal]

Quit the off topic nationalist crap and get back to arguing about a fictional world.

[-flashblade-]

If I see people expressing those tendencies, I will call them out on it. Maybe they come to a realisation like "What the hell am I spouting here". In this case its not gonna happen though. Makes me really glad that we are confined to our own solar system.

[BiancoAngelo7]

wow so much arguing and world war historians on this thread lol I think ill pass

[Last Vizard]

-flashblade- wrote...

If I see people expressing those tendencies, I will call them out on it. Maybe they come to a realisation like "What the hell am I spouting here". In this case its not gonna happen though. Makes me really glad that we are confined to our own solar system.

Finaly finished my shift.

Checked Thanix codex, they can be mounted on fighters which means that Carriers are the new super weapons of ME universe.

Is everyone just thinking in terms of "they have bigger ships with bigger guns"? we now have their Thanix cannon that can be mounted of frigets or fighters, this give us the advantage.

Is it possible to move asteroids with mass accelerators to relays in preperation for the Reaper invasion?
Thanix and mass accelerator gun platforms near the relays/mixed in with the asteroid belt and waiting slightly in the clouds of Jupiter?
Pearl Harbour is an American noob mistake, should have the British in control of Naval placement/tactics.
(yes they will never live it down, just like how humanity will never live it down if we ask for help while cowering in fear)
Turn the moon into a massive weapons platform/fighter carrier
Detonate nukes in front of the Reapers then launch 500,000 -1 000, 000 tungsten rods as scatter shot at the massive fleet containing every Reaper in the Galaxy and have the Alliance fleets equiped with thanix cannons and such following the rods, if they are going to darken our skies then they have to be densely packed at some point.
Landing on our planet should be the biggest mistake they could ever make, where are all the missile platforms? Nazara didn't hack 5th fleet ships, they need to plug into your usb before they can do anything
How do they get back to the our galaxy and how long does it take them? (why didn't Nazara just fly out and get his friends if their is a back door?) I'm guessing we have at least 2-4 years to build everything we need due to some loop hole thing the writers have come up with.
Why wasn't Earth turned into a fortress world after the first contact war anyway?


I'm just an ME fan, not a Cerberus/Alliance strategic defense think tank member, i'm sure they can come up with many more defense ideas than me...


If anyone wants to debate morals, ethics and what ever should send me a message from now on....
Ha! go and call me out, maybe you'll realise that tree hugging hippies want to destroy everything mankind has achieved by climing back into the trees, yes we are damaging the environment but it isn't anywhere near permanent.  Corrupt people controling large banks are the ones triggering the economic problems which is allowing them to shift wealth from the middle class to the banks.

[Drowsy0106]

Last Vizard wrote...



I don't like the idea of getting alien help to save Earth, i'm the type of person that gets annoyed when someone offers help... its a sign of weakness to need help, i will give help without expecting anything in return though, If Earth is saved soley by aliens then i will be very dissapointed in our race.

I see they have internet now in Kansas.