176 réponses à ce sujet

[goatman42]

Even if you don't like a character posting hate is never a good thing. As my hippie cousin always says, "Spread love not hate."

[Irzhen]

Well I didn't like her much in ME, but didn't dislike her either. Was one of those neutral characters that, well, was just there.

In ME2 however, she is the character I dislike most.

Is good a character grows. But I didn't like how she developed at all. I prefer characters with flaws like Jack and Miranda. There is something to hate and something to like. But I understand how so many people like her. If she was indeed made to be liked, that only shows the writers do a good job. Well not to me, but for a large part of the players since she seems to have the largest fan base.

[CroGamer002]

^Liara, Miranda and Kaidan have huge fanbase too that competes with Tali's easily.

[Half_Moon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

netfire_ wrote...

Are you sure you hate tali and not just the talimancers?

We hate Tali because of the talimancers. Satisfied?

So the only reason you hate this character is because other people like that character? 

[hamtyl07]

its not that i hate her shes an intrersting character and waht not but her character could have been built a little better so im kind of in the middle oif the road i dont hate her but at the same time i dont lover her just like other characters shes her oments and then she does not but thats just my opinion

[Annjul666]

no, you werent the only one. Welcome in the club.

[CroGamer002]

To this day I didn't find any rational reason to hate Tali.

To dislike her or being neutral I did, but hate not.

[PrinceLionheart]

Mesina2 wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

She complained more then Jacob, Jack and Miranda?

Technically yes more than Jacob. Wasn't the big issue with Jacob was that he didn't talk enough? 

Here's a hint.
Try to romance Jacob.

I've seen the romance on youtube. Even then he hardly complained. He turned the questions on Shepard. 

[CroGamer002]

^Not one right before Suicide Mission.

The whole way when through.



He complained to Shep for getting him know better.

[Irzhen]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Liara, Miranda and Kaidan have huge fanbase too that competes with Tali's easily.

I said that it seems. I'm basing my opinion on the polls I've seen here, not on any sort of oficial numbers. Although I doubt Miranda's or Kaidan's fan base is near the same size as Tali. Liara is  probable, she was on the first game and then with the LOSB... Still, my point is that she have a large fan base. Should have said that differently.

[Winterfly]

Where did she complain? I sure didnät notice much complains.



Her father is dead damnit and she can be exiled from her people. I find that good reason to complain but seemingly one may not complain and should be like a palace guard, all stale and inpersonal. Or be Legion "We are many"

[CroGamer002]

Also her complains are for getting Legion( like every squad mate but Grunt, Zaeed and Miranda), giving evidence( discriminates her father's name and put's Quarians in chaos) and... and... eh?

What are her other complains?

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

What happened to the girl who, while needing saving from punks with guns, threw grenades first and asked questions later? She hid in a bunker, and then hid behind a not-lawyer.

Quarians suck at ground combat and the geth force on Haestrom was a lot stronger than Fist's assassins. Also, Shepard only counseled her at Raan's suggestion.

And so what?

Tali isn't the analogy of the Quarian marines. She is good at ground combat: that's what she proved in ME1, that's why she was recruited in ME2. She was in danger from Fist's assassins, she's in danger going on a Suicide Mission. 'Quarians suck at ground combat' doesn't cut it for why she'd shy from a confrontation: she doesn't, and bad odds never stopped her before. Is there any doubt she would have fought to the death when the Geth entered? 

Tali in ME1 was willing to fight for herself, in bullets or in words. In ME2, where did we see that? I don't deny what the story wrote for her in ME2. I think the ME2 story did her a great disservice.

Because Cerberus attacked the Migrant Fleet?

Indeed. And the Council is the reason the Migrant Fleet is migrant. And the Geth slaughtered the Quarians in the first place. Both did far more harm than Cerberus, and yet she'll still advocate saving the Council in ME1, and she'll make peace with the Geth in ME2.

In some respects, this is a symptome of a larger flaw in ME2: the lack of any crew input on the various Big Choices, and the lack of crew critque on choices in general. Whatever you decide, they end up either (a) not caring and never mentioning, or ( agreeing with you completely. This is particularly notable when, say, you take Grunt on Mordin's loyalty mission.

But even as a systematic flaw, it's still a flaw, and it still robs Tali of any hope of a nuanced character. Anti-Cerberus, could have, should have, been a part of her non-Geth political characterization in ME2. Not about the whole darn thing.

Prazza screwed up on Freedom's Progress, and Haestrom was nobody's fault; the geth were simply too strong for the quarians to deal with. In addition, exposing said war crimes would have splintered the Migrant Fleet in addition to blacklisting Rael.

Prazza was her squad. She failed to lead and maintain control. Haestrom was nobody's fault in the sense that the Geth were too strong to be beaten, not in that she could have been somewhere else other than holed up in a bunker. There is a point where a leader needs to stay back and not risk him or herself. But that point passes right about the time everyone is being overrun.

Who knows. Maybe Kal threw her in against her words. But that would still be a loss of her control as a Leader.

Splintering the Migrant Fleet was never Tali's concern, nor is it an obvious, apparent, and expected course of releasing the data. Yes, Tali was concerned about blacklisting her Father. That was her mistake. As she said in ME1 herself, Rael would have shot her himself for assisting in piracy. That was her standard in ME1. She should have kept it.

Blame ME2's failed increased edginess in general, perhaps? In any case, being Femshep, I didn't get the forbidden love part (which I don't really think half-defined her anyway).

Perhaps. And she's the sad product of it.

I believe even Femshep gets the Shadow Broker Dossier about Tali's vibrator installation, and while not purely cannon Diddyos's hidden dialogue show that FemShep/Tali was definitely a working thought throughout development in the game, as late as Shadow Broker dialogue recording.

I imagine that she grew up some in the past two years, probably realizing that holding that dogmatically to one organization and one point of view on an enemy race was counterproductive.

That would be great. But why do we never hear or see such a maturation? Why does she never reflect on it, give reason for it? Even Ash/Kaiden give reasons for their suspicion and changes (Two damn years, Shepard, we thought you were dead, Shepard, Cerberus could be using you, Shepard), and they only had a single cutscene!

That is character development and exposition, awkward and clunky as it was. Not changing things by fiat, giving no reason for changes and than asking everyone to fill in whatever convenient answer they prefer.

Tali was changed, and I'd certainly argue not for the better, and in a very poor manner. I enjoyed Tali very much in ME1, and was a casual Talimancer back before it was a legit pairing. Nothing changed that faster than seeing ME2's handling of Tali: it was like a bad fanfic, except it became the standard.

****ing waste.

And Legion's information-sending was, well, understandable.

Indeed. Very understandable that doing so would lead to a lot more dead Quarians.

[Xilizhra]

Tali isn't the analogy of the Quarian marines. She is good at ground combat: that's what she proved in ME1, that's why she was recruited in ME2. She was in danger from Fist's assassins, she's in danger going on a Suicide Mission. 'Quarians suck at ground combat' doesn't cut it for why she'd shy from a confrontation: she doesn't, and bad odds never stopped her before. Is there any doubt she would have fought to the death when the Geth entered?

She is? I found her to be quite mediocre at ground combat and only useful for hacking and suchlike (also zapping geth, but again, she was in a squad with non-quarian support). Also, she was under orders to keep herself safe because she was the only one with the know-how to discern anything about Haestrom's sun.

Indeed. And the Council is the reason the Migrant Fleet is migrant. And the Geth slaughtered the Quarians in the first place. Both did far more harm than Cerberus, and yet she'll still advocate saving the Council in ME1, and she'll make peace with the Geth in ME2.

Not the current Council, and let's face it, the geth were initially wronged in the Morning War, which she's presumably figured out (she also advocated killing the Council for me).

Prazza was her squad. She failed to lead and maintain control. Haestrom was nobody's fault in the sense that the Geth were too strong to be beaten, not in that she could have been somewhere else other than holed up in a bunker. There is a point where a leader needs to stay back and not risk him or herself. But that point passes right about the time everyone is being overrun.

On Haestrom, she was the only one with the necessary scientific expertise to make the expedition not a complete waste. I'll concede Prazza, but I think there the problem was whomever assigned Tali to lead someone like that (a bit of turian philosophy there).

Splintering the Migrant Fleet was never Tali's concern, nor is it an obvious, apparent, and expected course of releasing the data. Yes, Tali was concerned about blacklisting her Father. That was her mistake. As she said in ME1 herself, Rael would have shot her himself for assisting in piracy. That was her standard in ME1. She should have kept it.

And she'd just been hit by a lot of emotional trauma at that moment. Maybe she'd get over Shepard's betrayal, if indeed he does so, in ME3.

I believe even Femshep gets the Shadow Broker Dossier about Tali's vibrator installation, and while not purely cannon Diddyos's hidden dialogue show that FemShep/Tali was definitely a working thought throughout development in the game, as late as Shadow Broker dialogue recording.

Most definitely, but it still doesn't define her character.

That would be great. But why do we never hear or see such a maturation? Why does she never reflect on it, give reason for it? Even Ash/Kaiden give reasons for their suspicion and changes (Two damn years, Shepard, we thought you were dead, Shepard, Cerberus could be using you, Shepard), and they only had a single cutscene!

Possibly because it wasn't anything specific. Of course, the execution by the writers could have been handled better, but I don't think that in-universe, Tali changed for the worse.

Indeed. Very understandable that doing so would lead to a lot more dead Quarians.

Its intentions were understandable as well.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I don't understand...

[SomeKindaEnigma]

"Look at me, my name is Asator. I want attention, so I'm gonna make an anti-Tali thread just so I can say I made a thread that got a lot of views!"

[Pacifien]

Actually, if you disregard the idea that thread starts off with an anti-Tali viewpoint and all the posts discussing whether such a thread is appropriate, there's a discussion about people's opinions about Tali good or ill. I could close the thread, but it would be like declaring contrary viewpoints are unacceptable in any context. I'd rather not.

[SomeKindaEnigma]

Pacifien wrote...

Actually, if you disregard the idea that thread starts off with an anti-Tali viewpoint and all the posts discussing whether such a thread is appropriate, there's a discussion about people's opinions about Tali good or ill. I could close the thread, but it would be like declaring contrary viewpoints are unacceptable in any context. I'd rather not.

Isn't that discussion already present in the "official" Tali Zorah thread?

[CroGamer002]

^Want to Tali'Zorah support thread get closed again?

Modifié par Mesina2, 01 janvier 2011 - 07:48 .

[SomeKindaEnigma]

^ Nosiree. Logically, if one thread had to be closed, it would make sense that this one would be, considering the aforementioned discussion is already prevalent in another thread.



Side note: I don't support either thread being closed, if that's what you were thinking.

[Nuala]

Avian005 wrote...

Am I the only one who likes my entire squad?

I would make them all come over for a super awkward Christmas dinner!

[Pacifien]

SomeKindaEnigma wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Actually, if you disregard the idea that thread starts off with an anti-Tali viewpoint and all the posts discussing whether such a thread is appropriate, there's a discussion about people's opinions about Tali good or ill. I could close the thread, but it would be like declaring contrary viewpoints are unacceptable in any context. I'd rather not.

Isn't that discussion already present in the "official" Tali Zorah thread?

I'm not someone who believes characters should have one all encompassing thread for discussion of anything and everything about them, though.

[Spartas Husky]

Pacifien wrote...

SomeKindaEnigma wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Actually, if you disregard the idea that thread starts off with an anti-Tali viewpoint and all the posts discussing whether such a thread is appropriate, there's a discussion about people's opinions about Tali good or ill. I could close the thread, but it would be like declaring contrary viewpoints are unacceptable in any context. I'd rather not.

Isn't that discussion already present in the "official" Tali Zorah thread?

I'm not someone who believes characters should have one all encompassing thread for discussion of anything and everything about them, though.

dont know why Pacifien but your avatar is a mix sight.... for one I am an animal lover so is cute. But for two... everytime I see your avatar I first scan the site for a locked thread

hpy new years btw everyone

[SomeKindaEnigma]

Pacifien wrote...

SomeKindaEnigma wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Actually, if you disregard the idea that thread starts off with an anti-Tali viewpoint and all the posts discussing whether such a thread is appropriate, there's a discussion about people's opinions about Tali good or ill. I could close the thread, but it would be like declaring contrary viewpoints are unacceptable in any context. I'd rather not.

Isn't that discussion already present in the "official" Tali Zorah thread?

I'm not someone who believes characters should have one all encompassing thread for discussion of anything and everything about them, though.

Acknowledged.  Hand shake?

[Zulu_DFA]

Double post

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 janvier 2011 - 08:15 .