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[Zulu_DFA]

Half_Moon wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

netfire_ wrote...

Are you sure you hate tali and not just the talimancers?

We hate Tali because of the talimancers. Satisfied?

So the only reason you hate this character is because other people like that character? 

Their liking of the character brings sort of diminishing returns to the character. BioWare caters to their most unnatural side of thier liking of the character so that the character (and the game, containing the character) gets ruined for everyone else. Like I said:

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OP:

No, you are not alone. Tali was OK in ME1, but in ME2 she was freaking annoying. The only "sword" she was willing to throw herself on was that of Shepard.

"Cut me in half, Shepard! Oh, let me be your space princess! Don't matter you didn't give me that Geth data in ME1 and I wasn't talking to you back then, I'm still soooooo on fire!!!"

Yes you are, Fat Chicken Hips! Burn-burn-burn!!! says I, every time she is incinerated in the Engine Room!

But actually I wanted to say what Dean_the _Young said:

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Irzhen wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...
I mean... Tali is pretty much the least hate-able person on your ship... I don't get why anyone would hate her. I could understand not wanting to romance her, everyone has different tastes... but there really aren't many reasons to actually hate her that I'm aware of.

That's why I don't like her. It looks like she was designed to be the most likeable character in the squad. There isn't really anything to hate so to me she comes as too "perfect" (not in the real sense of the word). There are others I dislike because of this but she is the one I dislike more. But I only killed her on purpose on one playthough and that was because I had to choose between her and Legion.

Don't get why people are against hate threads, as long they are kept civil they aren't different than a love/support thread. If I don't wanna see someone say that a character is the best ever and the game would be total crap without him/her obviously I'm not gonna read a support thread for that character. Same applies to hate threads IMO. 

In ME1, Tali was basically a Quarian codex reader with chicken legs and a shotgun. She didn't get much personal characterization, but when (a) had a hot voice, ( had an appealing silihout, and © actually had some personality flaws (naivite, unrepentent Quarian non-apologist). There wasn't much done with her, really, but she was interesting (in a foreign, exotic sort of way), and she wasn't shoehorned into Paragon or Renegade.

In ME2, Tali was redone to fit what they thought people liked. She (might have) kept the hot voice, her suit was re-designed to emphasize THIS ALIEN HAS BOOBS, and whatever ambiguity/mystery she had before got replaced by Quarian Paragon Princess Damsal In Distress who turned into a Geth moderate the moment Legion wasn't trolling her.

What happened to the girl who, while needing saving from punks with guns, threw grenades first and asked questions later? She hid in a bunker, and then hid behind a not-lawyer.

What happened to the girl who was constantly in the middle, as likely to advocate sacrificing the Council or killing the Rachni as saving it? The only positions we got were default anti-Cerberus Paragon-isms.

What happened to the Quarian golden child who had so much promise to the Quarians and held herself to highest standards for the sake of the Quarians? Well, she failed as a leader,  failed to expose war crimes, and could only get off the hook of a treason charge if Shepard helped her do that.

What happened to the young, inexperienced, somewhat innocent modest youth? She become 'jaded', and 'edgy', dropping such adult words as 'damn' like it was the F-bomb, while being half-defined by her forbidden love.

What happened to one of the few people in the universe who would stand up to Shepard and have a fight with him, unapologetic to the last about any sort of Quarian guilt in regards to the Geth, and never once showing any signs of hesitence or guilt towards them now? The person who always put the Quarians first? She rolled over for Shepard,  worked with Cerberus, became a Geth moderate, and would even forgive a Geth for trying to submit dangerous information that could imperil Quarians if Shepard would give a four-sentence cheer speach.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 janvier 2011 - 08:18 .

[CroGamer002]

Zulu_DFA wrote...



"Cut me

in half, Shepard! Oh, let me be your space princess! Don't matter you

didn't give me that Geth data in ME1 and I wasn't talking to you back

then, I'm still soooooo on fire!!!"



Yes you are, Fat Chicken Hips! Burn-burn-burn!!! says I, every time she is incinerated in the Engine Room!

Is that supposed to be funny?

I mean Family Guy is funnier then this post.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Mesina2 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

"Cut me
in half, Shepard! Oh, let me be your space princess! Don't matter you
didn't give me that Geth data in ME1 and I wasn't talking to you back
then, I'm still soooooo on fire!!!"

Yes you are, Fat Chicken Hips! Burn-burn-burn!!! says I, every time she is incinerated in the Engine Room!

Is that supposed to be funny?
I mean Family Guy is funnier then this post.

American Dad is funnier than that post.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

She is? I found her to be quite mediocre at ground combat and only useful for hacking and suchlike (also zapping geth, but again, she was in a squad with non-quarian support). Also, she was under orders to keep herself safe because she was the only one with the know-how to discern anything about Haestrom's sun.

In the terms of lore, she is.

Not necessarily good enough to warrant a return to Shepard's team, but in terms of story she was right there fighting with Shepard. Quarians aren't bad fighters, they just don't have the resources to fight a ground war.

'Keeping herself safe' only goes so far. If Tali kept herself safe until everyone else was overrun, she still dies and still fails.

Not the current Council, and let's face it, the geth were initially wronged in the Morning War, which she's presumably figured out (she also advocated killing the Council for me).

Yes the current Council. Different Council members, but history and the world show that the vast majority of people maintain grudges against the institutions that commit a crime as well as the people involved.

Tali never showed that she 'faced it' that the Geth were initially wronged in ME1. She'll never accept it if Shepard challenges that. The fact that she does in ME2 is a unsupported change from ME1: the problem isn't that she changed, but that no reason or merit was given. In ME1, the geth were a threat that had to be shut off before it was too late. In ME2, nothing changes that first position, and now the Geth have just recently proven they are still a proven threat.

On Haestrom, she was the only one with the necessary scientific expertise to make the expedition not a complete waste. I'll concede Prazza, but I think there the problem was whomever assigned Tali to lead someone like that (a bit of turian philosophy there).

Sure. Quarian politics were also likely played.

Most definitely, but it still doesn't define her character.

Alone? Never said it did. Did her fascination with Shepard dominate overall? Yes. It wasn't just a point in and of itself, it shaded most other points as well.

"You were dead and I shouldn't have real reason to believe you can be alive, but you're Shepard!"
"You are working with Cerberus and in a position to ruin my mission to rescue Veetor, but you're Shepard!"
"Let me just record these audiologs about to provide exposition about Haestrom, and how about how I still think about Shepard!"
"Let me provide more audio regardings wishing Shepard were here!"
"Now that fifty men and women under my command have died, I want to go with Shepard!"
"I'll take a confrontational attitude with members of my new team, the crew of my new ship, and even the ship itself. But I'm here for you, Shepard!"
"I couldn't ask for a better lawyer than you, Shepard!"
"Shepard, you hold my father's name and honor in your hand, but I'll let you decide what to do because you're Shepard and follow you regardless!"
"I secretly masturbate to you, Shepard!"

And that's before the romance cannonical male-specific dialogue is started! And even if you don't pick the 'nice' options and take every chance to dis/demean/torment/go against her!

"I imply I want to have sex with you, Shepard!"
"I've always wanted you and am willing to die for your skinship, Shepard!"
"You make me sick, literally, but it's worth it for you, Shepard!"


Hell, even the crew talks about how gaga she is over you. For the longest time, even.

"I'm a trained psychologist and I can totally tell she's into you, Shepard."
"I'm an introspective theif and even I can tell you stole her heart, Shepard."
"I might have been a lonely, socially-awkward, hundred-year-old-virgin, but even I could tell she had the hots for you even back then, Shepard!"



In ME1, there was no huge attraction, no character dependence on Shepard. In ME2, you couldn't get five character points about Tali without at least
two of them being about how much of a fangirl she was.

Possibly because it wasn't anything specific. Of course, the execution by the writers could have been handled better, but I don't think that in-universe, Tali changed for the worse.

How did she change well?

I'm far less disappointed in where she ended up than how.

Its intentions were understandable as well.

So were the geth intentions in resisting the Quarians. Did that ever stop her in ME1?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 01 janvier 2011 - 10:47 .

[Addai]

Sandbox47 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Heh, people are so uptight. The Wynne hate thread is one of my all-time favorite threads on the DA board. But whatever... when in Rome.

Why would anyone hate Wynne?  What's there to hate about her? I mean, there's nothing to like about her either really, but she's not ****y or annoying...

Well, here you go, 50-some pages of Wynne-hating goodness.  *wipes little tear of nostalgia from eye*

[Addai]

lovgreno wrote...

I can't see the point of disliking someone that doesn't even exist other than in your imagination. It's just a game, so it's not worth the effort.

You could say the same thing about being fans of a fictional character.  But it is just a story, and people are going to react differently to its elements and characters.  As touchy as people obviously are about criticism, I can see why such threads as this are verboten.  The way I see it, as long as people aren't doing obnoxiously trollish things- like flaming a fan thread- it's all a part of discussing the story characters.  Otherwise it seems kind of cultish and creepy if you can't abide that someone else doesn't like your favorite.

[CroGamer002]

^Why am I surprised about that?

[GodWood]

I agree with Dean 100%.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The only problem I've had with Tali is here attitude towards the Geth and how she carries the 'Oh woe is me my home world got taken by evil Geth. its all their fault and they're evil." Then she put a gun in Legion's face and that's when I got mad at her character.



As a character I like Legion a whole lot more and he was the most interesting character on the ship added to the fact that he's never shown any hostility towards anyone in the crew made me love that guy. Then we see Legion has a gun two inches from his face.



If she gets over that blind Geth hating than I'll have no problem with her but I promise if she threatens Legion like that again and I have the option I will shot her down.

[Dean_the_Young]

GodWood wrote...

I agree with Dean 100%.

First long post or second?

[Bad King]

VanguardOfDestruction wrote...

*agrees with everyone else in saying that hate threads are not cool*

People hate on characters like TIM and Udina all the time and get patted on the back for it.

Modifié par Bad King, 02 janvier 2011 - 12:11 .

[GodWood]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I agree with Dean 100%.

First long post or second?

Both, although I was referring to the second one.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The only problem I've had with Tali is here attitude towards the Geth and how she carries the 'Oh woe is me my home world got taken by evil Geth. its all their fault and they're evil." Then she put a gun in Legion's face and that's when I got mad at her character.

I don't mean to assume, but I doubt you have ever had your home planet destroyed with a vast majority of your race being wiped out. I, personally, would not be so quick to judge Tali's hatred towards the geth.

[ADLegend21]

All this talk of people disliking Tali because of her distain for Legion, it's because she was raised on being told that the Geth were evil and that's why her pepple were driven from their homeworld by the Geth.if that's all you have to go on besides the Geth siding with the reapers you'd have Legion too. Legion only interacts with shepard and then Tali when the loyalty conflict happens. We know the quarians were Wrong to start the war eith the geth but she doesn't and she even works with Legion on the Charm option to keep both of their loyalties, and this is greatly overlooked. Also The only time Legion is taken seriously is when it talks to the admirals nd the council (as dumb as they are) degrade his intel by saying he's a trophy bot.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The only problem I've had with Tali is here attitude towards the Geth and how she carries the 'Oh woe is me my home world got taken by evil Geth. its all their fault and they're evil." Then she put a gun in Legion's face and that's when I got mad at her character.

I don't mean to assume, but I doubt you have ever had your home planet destroyed with a vast majority of your race being wiped out. I, personally, would not be so quick to judge Tali's hatred towards the geth.

Its not the hate that upsets me its the attitude that she has about them. 1)That they had to attack the Geth because AI = Evil and the Geth were going to attack them because they just would!!. 2) They refuse to talk to the Geth. They're happy just floating around being mad and thinking up ways to get themselves killed. 3) They see themselves as victims when in reality they were the Hitlers that wanted to destroy an entire race and they lost. 4) They refuse to think for a moment that their reaction towards the Geth was wrong.... They say their mistake was making them without ever thinking maybe their mistake was trying to kill something that had just woke up.

It makes me mad that the only half way sane Quaraian is Qwib-Qwib.  You can have Tali having a negative opinion of the Geth because of their past without turning her into a 'Oh we're the victims and they're the bad ones"

[Crooty]

what's wrong with hate threads. People just voicing their opinions, i do'nt hate tali nor do i like her. If you get all offeneded and upset just because someone doesn't like your favourite character then you are [Edit: Rest of post removed because it fails to abide by the Site Rules of Conduct. Insulting posts like these will get a thread locked and posters banned. - Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 02 janvier 2011 - 12:59 .

[SomeKindaEnigma]

lawlz, restrain yourself buddy.

[Crooty]

obviously the right to free speech is not allowed. I was trying to write that people who get offended just because someone doesn't like their fav character need to grow up and stop whining, who cares if they don't like your fav character, i can't care less if someone hates Miranda, because i respect peoples opinions

[Zulu_DFA]

MirandaIzHawt wrote...

obviously the right to free speech is not allowed. I was trying to write that people who get offended just because someone doesn't like their fav character need to grow up and stop whining, who cares if they don't like your fav character, i can't care less if someone hates Miranda, because i respect peoples opinions

Funniest thing: instead of trying to properly defend their fav character they immediately go to complaining about complainers, how they break up their kumbaya-singing community while secretly bombarding mods with PMs like "The OP of [insert thread title here] is a troll!!!"

[SomeKindaEnigma]

The OP was clearly looking for attention by making this thread. I've seen other anti-Tali/anti-whoever threads; they were much more insightful/intelligent than this one. I don't give two ****s if someone dislikes a video game character I like.

So in the same token, please excuse me as I go PM'ing mods because I am so distressed about someone disagreeing with me.

Modifié par SomeKindaEnigma, 02 janvier 2011 - 07:36 .

[Bugsie]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

MirandaIzHawt wrote...

obviously the right to free speech is not allowed. I was trying to write that people who get offended just because someone doesn't like their fav character need to grow up and stop whining, who cares if they don't like your fav character, i can't care less if someone hates Miranda, because i respect peoples opinions

Funniest thing: instead of trying to properly defend their fav character they immediately go to complaining about complainers, how they break up their kumbaya-singing community while secretly bombarding mods with PMs like "The OP of [insert thread title here] is a troll!!!"

It ceases to become 'free speech' when you start calling people names.

Well the incredibly well thought out discussion topic put forward by the OP of: "I found Tali more annoying as I went along and so I killed her.  Who's with me!?"

Please find my rebuttal here: "I found Tali more endearing as I went along and I definitely wanted to save her and maybe even romance her with my manShep. Who's with me??"

No intervention needed by mods.  Phew that was hard work.  Now excuse me whilst I go and sing kumbaya and group hug my BSN communities.

[Zulu_DFA]

Buggirl70 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

MirandaIzHawt wrote...

obviously the right to free speech is not allowed. I was trying to write that people who get offended just because someone doesn't like their fav character need to grow up and stop whining, who cares if they don't like your fav character, i can't care less if someone hates Miranda, because i respect peoples opinions

Funniest thing: instead of trying to properly defend their fav character they immediately go to complaining about complainers, how they break up their kumbaya-singing community while secretly bombarding mods with PMs like "The OP of [insert thread title here] is a troll!!!"

It ceases to become 'free speech' when you start calling people names.

Well the incredibly well thought out discussion topic put forward by the OP of: "I found Tali more annoying as I went along and so I killed her.  Who's with me!?"

Please find my rebuttal here: "I found Tali more endearing as I went along and I definitely wanted to save her and maybe even romance her with my manShep. Who's with me??"

No intervention needed by mods.  Phew that was hard work.  Now excuse me whilst I go and sing kumbaya and group hug my BSN communities.

Then what made you think my post was aimed at you among others?