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#26
DarthCaine

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StowyMcStowstow wrote...

If you take out any reference to Cerberus, the Reapers or the Protheans, then you would have no idea the game was related to Mass Effect.

Yes and if you take out any reference to lightsabers, The Force, Sith or Jedi, you'd have no idea Empire Strikes Back is related to Star Wars.

While you're at it take out any mention of Terminators or Skynet in Terminator 2 and it'll have no relation to The Terminator.

And then remove all pirates, guns, swords and ships from Dead Man's Chest and it'll have no relation to Pirates of the Carribean

Modifié par DarthCaine, 01 janvier 2011 - 07:59 .


#27
Soul Reaver

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What's the point of ME1?

#28
Zulu_DFA

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SSV Enterprise wrote...

In the big picture (spoilers ahoy):

--We know the Reapers are particularly interested in humanity.
--We know at least part of why the Reapers wipe out the galaxy every 50,000 years.
--We know that the Protheans weren't truly wiped out, but were adapted.
--We know that Sovereign was responsible for the rachni's madness, and that the new rachni are currently preparing to fight the Reapers (if you spared the queen, that is)
--If Wrex is alive, he is uniting the krogan.
--Mordin may come up with a genophage cure.
--We know that only a small fraction of the geth actually supported Sovereign.  The geth "Heretics" have been defeated, and an alliance with the geth may be possible.
--...on the other hand, a quarian invasion of geth space may happen soon.  The quarians may even re-subjugate the geth.
--You possibly have the support of Cerberus
--You possibly do not have the support of the Council and the Alliance.
--You may be able to use the Reapers' own technology against them.

That was off the top of my head.  I think that's a pretty sizeable addition to the big picture.


Rachni queen was lying. Sovereign did not indoctrinate the Rachni, or it wouldn't need the Rachni queen in the first place. And unleashing the Rachni on the Galaxy when it wasn't still "ripe" would be contrary to the Reapers' farming protocol.


Only if you do Legion's loyalty. If you send Legion to Cerberus chances are all Geth will become Heretics and actively hostile in ME3.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 janvier 2011 - 08:09 .


#29
marshalleck

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Hopefully the purpose of ME2 was to remove the recruiting phase of ME3, so Shepard can get right down to the business of stopping the Reapers. If the squad mates don't return in ME3 and we have to go recruit a whole new team again for the third time, then ME2 didn't amount to squat. And that's what I am expecting, to be perfectly honest.

#30
FOZ289

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SSV Enterprise wrote...

In the big picture (spoilers ahoy):

--We know the Reapers are particularly interested in humanity.
--We know at least part of why the Reapers wipe out the galaxy every 50,000 years.
--We know that the Protheans weren't truly wiped out, but were adapted.
--We know that Sovereign was responsible for the rachni's madness, and that the new rachni are currently preparing to fight the Reapers (if you spared the queen, that is)
--If Wrex is alive, he is uniting the krogan.
--Mordin may come up with a genophage cure.
--We know that only a small fraction of the geth actually supported Sovereign.  The geth "Heretics" have been defeated, and an alliance with the geth may be possible.
--...on the other hand, a quarian invasion of geth space may happen soon.  The quarians may even re-subjugate the geth.
--You possibly have the support of Cerberus
--You possibly do not have the support of the Council and the Alliance.
--You may be able to use the Reapers' own technology against them.

That was off the top of my head.  I think that's a pretty sizeable addition to the big picture.


-Huh?  We know Harbinger has a grudge against Shepard, and we know they used the Collectors to try to make a new Reaper out of humans.  That's about it.
-Part of why?  All I remember on the subject is an utterly nonsensical monologue about how Shepard has "failed" and that Reapers are "salvation through destruction" which makes not even the slightest bit of sense, since Reapers can pretty much bs their way out of anything by saying "It's beyond your comprehension."
-Vigil already said that the Reapers enslaved tons of Protheans, now we just now that the enslaved Protheans aren't dead, but they've been so modified it doesn't even matter anymore.  They might as well be mutated gorillas.

Why does any of this matter?  It took the whole Citadel fleet and a bunch of Alliance ships to kill ONE Reaper, and that's also because Sovereign was focusing some power on controlling Saren's body.  What does it matter if Wrex is uniting the Krogan?  After 2 years he just has a couple clans that just beat the hell out of any other clan that talks **** about Urdnot.  And the rachni.  So what if they're progressing fast, what the hell are they and the Krogan going to do against hundreds/ thousands of Reapers? 

Geth/ Quarian:  The Quarians don't care, and uniting the Geth is a loyalty quest that some people didn't even do.  I don't see how an optional quest can make or break the entire plot of the third game.

Cerberus?  What have they even done?  They're just a radical group, a splinter cell of one BRANCH of the Alliance. 
Council/ Alliance:  We already knew the Council isn't helping, they had all of one scene in ME2.  That's not new information.

What Reaper technology?  All you got out of the derelict Reaper was the IFF, and Sovereign was too damaged for anyone to find anything useful.  And both of those are now gone, plus I blew up the Collector base.

Seriously, HOW is anyone any closer at all to stopping the Reapers?  Yeah, I'm sure a couple dozen Krogan ships are going to make a big difference fighting hundreds of mothership-sized sentient death machines.

#31
The Big Nothing

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What was the point of The Empire Strikes Back, besides being the awesome cream in the "Star Wars" cookie?

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 01 janvier 2011 - 09:21 .


#32
SSV Enterprise

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FOZ289 wrote...

SSV Enterprise wrote...

In the big picture (spoilers ahoy):

--We know the Reapers are particularly interested in humanity.
--We know at least part of why the Reapers wipe out the galaxy every 50,000 years.
--We know that the Protheans weren't truly wiped out, but were adapted.
--We know that Sovereign was responsible for the rachni's madness, and that the new rachni are currently preparing to fight the Reapers (if you spared the queen, that is)
--If Wrex is alive, he is uniting the krogan.
--Mordin may come up with a genophage cure.
--We know that only a small fraction of the geth actually supported Sovereign.  The geth "Heretics" have been defeated, and an alliance with the geth may be possible.
--...on the other hand, a quarian invasion of geth space may happen soon.  The quarians may even re-subjugate the geth.
--You possibly have the support of Cerberus
--You possibly do not have the support of the Council and the Alliance.
--You may be able to use the Reapers' own technology against them.

That was off the top of my head.  I think that's a pretty sizeable addition to the big picture.


-Huh?  We know Harbinger has a grudge against Shepard, and we know they used the Collectors to try to make a new Reaper out of humans.  That's about it.
-Part of why?  All I remember on the subject is an utterly nonsensical monologue about how Shepard has "failed" and that Reapers are "salvation through destruction" which makes not even the slightest bit of sense, since Reapers can pretty much bs their way out of anything by saying "It's beyond your comprehension."
-Vigil already said that the Reapers enslaved tons of Protheans, now we just now that the enslaved Protheans aren't dead, but they've been so modified it doesn't even matter anymore.  They might as well be mutated gorillas.

Why does any of this matter?  It took the whole Citadel fleet and a bunch of Alliance ships to kill ONE Reaper, and that's also because Sovereign was focusing some power on controlling Saren's body.  What does it matter if Wrex is uniting the Krogan?  After 2 years he just has a couple clans that just beat the hell out of any other clan that talks **** about Urdnot.  And the rachni.  So what if they're progressing fast, what the hell are they and the Krogan going to do against hundreds/ thousands of Reapers? 

Geth/ Quarian:  The Quarians don't care, and uniting the Geth is a loyalty quest that some people didn't even do.  I don't see how an optional quest can make or break the entire plot of the third game.

Cerberus?  What have they even done?  They're just a radical group, a splinter cell of one BRANCH of the Alliance. 
Council/ Alliance:  We already knew the Council isn't helping, they had all of one scene in ME2.  That's not new information.

What Reaper technology?  All you got out of the derelict Reaper was the IFF, and Sovereign was too damaged for anyone to find anything useful.  And both of those are now gone, plus I blew up the Collector base.

Seriously, HOW is anyone any closer at all to stopping the Reapers?  Yeah, I'm sure a couple dozen Krogan ships are going to make a big difference fighting hundreds of mothership-sized sentient death machines.



--It's stated by Mordin and EDI multiple times that human DNA is more "variable" than other species, and that may interest the Reapers.  Also, Harbinger talks about it when he kills your squad mates (go to "Quotes about your squad).  There's also the fact that the Collectors were hitting human colonies exclusively, the pretty much signifies specific interest.
--Reproduction.  The Collectors were making a new Reaper.  The dialogue you quote hints that there may be more to it.
--It's still different than being wiped out, and may effect events in ME3.

As for rachni, krogan, geth, etc., the Mass Effect 3 trailer shines light on the situation.  It's said that "If Commander Shepard doesn't bring help soon, there won't be an earth left to save".  At this point, it seems that the plot of ME3 will involve uniting the galaxy to face the Reapers together rather than in disparate groups.  If you saved the rachni, let Wrex live, made nice with Legion, you're already several steps towards that goal.  That's how ME2 furthers the main plot.

As for the quarians -- they don't care?  Did you talk with the admirals in Tali's loyalty mission?  One wanted to make peace with the geth, one wanted to wipe them out, and one wanted to re-enslave them.  Any of those might happen in ME3, and which one will likely determine how capable of fighting the Reapers both the quarians and the geth are.

As for Cerberus:  They have a powerful network of agents throughout the Alliance, considerable resources, and will have Reaper tech depending on whether or not you keep the Collector base at the end of ME2.  TIM and his Cerberus pals will be major players either for or against Shepard in ME3, mark my words.

As for the Council -- there are stark differences in how things can play out.  If you saved them and picked Anderson as councilor, you get to meet them and get your Spectre status reinstated.  If you left them for dead and chose Udina, you get squat.  Again, this will probably contribute to building a force to fight the Reapers in ME3.

Individually, none of these changes alone will make the difference against the Reapers.  They are all parts of a whole.  Together, they can make a hell of a difference.  It also all depends on the choices you made -- how well prepared the galaxy is for the Reaper invasion depends on the decisions you made throughout ME1 and ME2.

PS Zulu DFA -- keep your epileptic trees to yourself, kthx.

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 01 janvier 2011 - 10:00 .


#33
didymos1120

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The Big Nothing wrote...

What was the point of The Empire Strikes Back, besides being the awesome cream in the "Star Wars" cookie?


Seriously.  The Rebellion accomplished precisely jack in that movie and barely made an appearance  Getting curb-stomped in the beginning was their whole contribution to the plot: it provided Luke with the perfect excuse to go train, since everyone had to scatter anyway.  And the "I am your father" and "Han On Ice" parts contributed nothing to the "Destroy the Empire" goal.  Still the best SW film by a mile.

#34
didymos1120

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SSV Enterprise wrote...
 If you saved them and picked Anderson as councilor, you get to meet them and get your Spectre status reinstated.  If you left them for dead and chose Udina, you get squat. 


Small correction: if you save them and pick Udina, Anderson still manages to get you re-instated.  If you ditch them and pick Anderson, he just does it unilaterally if you say yes to the offer.  In fact,  Council Dead+Udina is the only option where you just plain can't be reinstated, whether you're interested or not.  The only thing that really distinguishes Council Alive+Anderson is that you actually get to talk to them again.

#35
Zulu_DFA

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SSV Enterprise wrote...

PS Zulu DFA -- keep your epileptic trees to yourself, kthx.


Mmmm. How's all Geth going Heretics if you don't prevent it an "epileptic tree"?

And how is it an "epileptic tree" when I explain why "Rachi were indoctrinated" theory is an "epileptic tree"?

#36
PHub88

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The bottom line for ME is this.

ME1 gave the Reapers way too much power story wise...way too much credibility...There is no WAY to write a story that defeats them in just two more games without it being sort of ridiculous...It really annoys me they are sticking to this GD trilogy thing because IMO 3 games is not enough to do this justice, espeically when ME2 had so little to do with the actual Reapers themselves...the Reapers should be near impossible to defeat...and there is just ONE more freaking game to do so? I mean obviously there is going to have to be some cheesey thing like somehow the galaxy disables all the Reapers before the ycan do anything...given the power Bioware gave them...if ALL the Reapers are currently on the move from dark space...ALL of them...then there should be no way to win...and to fight them would be epic on all scales...they have defeated a galaxy millions of times...it should be no simplistic task..which is what ONE more game means it will be

Mass Effect is just too deep of a concept to work in a trilogy...really annoys me they wanna cut it short there.

I hope they suprise me...and at LEAST make ME3 a 3 disc set...because I know for a fact the story cant be done justice...at least to me anyways...ME2 was 2 discs...how many story missions? like 5-6? So just imagine this...in just 5-6 MORE story missions...the Reapers are defeated and the Galaxy is saved...it bugs the crap out of me...Mass Effect SHOULD be a FIVE game series..or even six.

Freedoms Progress, which doesnt deserve to count.
Ferris Fields
Collector ship
Old Reaper
Omega 4 relay...

Im trying hard to remeber if i missed any...but thats only FIVE story missions...If  you played those all one by one that would make the actual story like 5 hours...I will be royally let down if ME3 has that many main story missions as well...

Modifié par PHub88, 01 janvier 2011 - 10:28 .


#37
MajorStranger

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FOZ289 wrote...

SSV Enterprise wrote...

In the big picture (spoilers ahoy):

--We know the Reapers are particularly interested in humanity.
--We know at least part of why the Reapers wipe out the galaxy every 50,000 years.
--We know that the Protheans weren't truly wiped out, but were adapted.
--We know that Sovereign was responsible for the rachni's madness, and that the new rachni are currently preparing to fight the Reapers (if you spared the queen, that is)
--If Wrex is alive, he is uniting the krogan.
--Mordin may come up with a genophage cure.
--We know that only a small fraction of the geth actually supported Sovereign.  The geth "Heretics" have been defeated, and an alliance with the geth may be possible.
--...on the other hand, a quarian invasion of geth space may happen soon.  The quarians may even re-subjugate the geth.
--You possibly have the support of Cerberus
--You possibly do not have the support of the Council and the Alliance.
--You may be able to use the Reapers' own technology against them.

That was off the top of my head.  I think that's a pretty sizeable addition to the big picture.


-Huh?  We know Harbinger has a grudge against Shepard, and we know they used the Collectors to try to make a new Reaper out of humans.  That's about it.
-Part of why?  All I remember on the subject is an utterly nonsensical monologue about how Shepard has "failed" and that Reapers are "salvation through destruction" which makes not even the slightest bit of sense, since Reapers can pretty much bs their way out of anything by saying "It's beyond your comprehension."
-Vigil already said that the Reapers enslaved tons of Protheans, now we just now that the enslaved Protheans aren't dead, but they've been so modified it doesn't even matter anymore.  They might as well be mutated gorillas.

Why does any of this matter?  It took the whole Citadel fleet and a bunch of Alliance ships to kill ONE Reaper, and that's also because Sovereign was focusing some power on controlling Saren's body.  What does it matter if Wrex is uniting the Krogan?  After 2 years he just has a couple clans that just beat the hell out of any other clan that talks **** about Urdnot.  And the rachni.  So what if they're progressing fast, what the hell are they and the Krogan going to do against hundreds/ thousands of Reapers? 

Geth/ Quarian:  The Quarians don't care, and uniting the Geth is a loyalty quest that some people didn't even do.  I don't see how an optional quest can make or break the entire plot of the third game.

Cerberus?  What have they even done?  They're just a radical group, a splinter cell of one BRANCH of the Alliance. 
Council/ Alliance:  We already knew the Council isn't helping, they had all of one scene in ME2.  That's not new information.

What Reaper technology?  All you got out of the derelict Reaper was the IFF, and Sovereign was too damaged for anyone to find anything useful.  And both of those are now gone, plus I blew up the Collector base.

Seriously, HOW is anyone any closer at all to stopping the Reapers?  Yeah, I'm sure a couple dozen Krogan ships are going to make a big difference fighting hundreds of mothership-sized sentient death machines.





If you have read Casey Hudson's interview about Mass Effect 3 (which i did) He clearly stated that Mass Effect 3 will have two completely different ending (and many in between) either we win or we all die. Consider that: If in mass effect  you have save the council and the rachni, and then in Mass Effect 2 you have gain the loyalty the Urdnot Clan (by not killing Wrex), The Quarian (by the trial) and the Geth (by the "side-quest" as you say, your chances of wining the war are better than if you just had the Alliance help.

Try not to see the Mass Effect Trilogy like three video game but more like a big giant game in which every choice you have matters.

You are just a troll who need an audience. You don't like it? Don't play it and don't complain about it.

#38
SSV Enterprise

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

SSV Enterprise wrote...

PS Zulu DFA -- keep your epileptic trees to yourself, kthx.


Mmmm. How's all Geth going Heretics if you don't prevent it an "epileptic tree"?

And how is it an "epileptic tree" when I explain why "Rachi were indoctrinated" theory is an "epileptic tree"?


The geth part is likely, but you acted like your own little theory on the rachni had the same weight to it as the geth scenario.  That is blatantly misleading, and I don't like it when fans act like their crazy wild theories have any shred of actual value.  But that's just me.

#39
MajorStranger

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The rachni could pose as a powerful ally for them.



And concerning the possible Indoctrination of the Rachni;



Many time in mass effect we have heard that the Indoctrination use some kind of subsonic resonance to get inside their mind. Guess what? That's how the Rachni communicate. I won't say this is official, but it's very well plausible they have been affected by some Reaper technologies that made them violent.

#40
PHub88

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Seeing as how they made it %98 clear the Racnhi had been indoctrinated by the Reapers back during the Racnhi wars. It would be incredibly stupid if they end up having the "exact same thing" happen to them again this time around, so yeah, I doubt Bioware would be that lame.

About the farming timings or whatever...They say it a few times in the game it was the Salarians being very foolish and using a Relay without testing it first...it took them right into Racnhi territory ..its not like they came out and tried invading the Galaxy first...so even if the Reapers where using them then...the Salarians kind of screwed up their plans by running into them before planned...and in retrospect actually saved the Galaxy from the Reapers by their own stupidity.

Modifié par PHub88, 01 janvier 2011 - 10:51 .


#41
Mixon

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+1

ME2 was recruiting team part and to introduce them.

#42
Zulu_DFA

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SSV Enterprise wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SSV Enterprise wrote...

PS Zulu DFA -- keep your epileptic trees to yourself, kthx.


Mmmm. How's all Geth going Heretics if you don't prevent it an "epileptic tree"?

And how is it an "epileptic tree" when I explain why "Rachi were indoctrinated" theory is an "epileptic tree"?


The geth part is likely, but you acted like your own little theory on the rachni had the same weight to it as the geth scenario.  That is blatantly misleading, and I don't like it when fans act like their crazy wild theories have any shred of actual value.  But that's just me.

It must be painful to realize that your precious necrobug is going to bite you in the arse... So it's easier to think that the devil Reapers are to blame. But not all bad things happen due to Reapers, you know.

#43
Pro_Consul

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

It must be painful to realize that your precious necrobug is going to bite you in the arse... So it's easier to think that the devil Reapers are to blame. But not all bad things happen due to Reapers, you know.


True. And not all murders are committed by Jack Ruby. That doesn't change the fact that he DID commit the murder of Oswald. Seriously though, we are talking about a work of fiction here, one in which red herrings have so far played zero role. Based on what reasoning do you conclude that this IS a red herring from the writers who have completely eschewed them up to this point? (That was a rhetorical question, I am not actually inviting you to highjack this thread by giving a detailed answer.) Occam's Razor suggests that these writers, who seem to conscientiously avoid the annoying-in-sci-fi literary device of red herrings, have NOT suddenly deviated and littered the landscape with them just for kicks, but rather have continued doing what they started out doing, i.e. telling an epic sci-fi story about a powerful, insidious race that makes their plans over millenia rather than years. (And that may be part of the reason they are suddenly having such trouble, since the Prothean sabotage has caused them to fall back on improv and they are out of practice at it.)

As for the OP's question, what is point for any novel in a series other than the first and the last? People who complain about Empire Strikes Back just because it was not "climactic" should stick to reading short stories and watching sit coms...you know, things that never have 3 or more parts to them. Of course Star Wars (New Hope) introduced far more stuff - everything in it was being introduced for criminy's sake! And of course Return of the Jedi was more climactic - it was the frelling climax of the original series! If you hadn't seen any of the Star Wars movies before, however, and you watched the original SW and then skipped straight to RotJ, you'd be griping up a storm about all the stuff that happened in between that you missed. Same deal here.

#44
Zulu_DFA

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Pro_Consul wrote...

Based on what reasoning do you conclude that this IS a red herring from the writers who have completely eschewed them up to this point? (That was a rhetorical question, I am not actually inviting you to highjack this thread by giving a detailed answer.)


So I'll give you a quick answer:

It's either a red herring or a plot hole.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 janvier 2011 - 12:49 .


#45
CroGamer002

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

SSV Enterprise wrote...

In the big picture (spoilers ahoy):

--We know the Reapers are particularly interested in humanity.
--We know at least part of why the Reapers wipe out the galaxy every 50,000 years.
--We know that the Protheans weren't truly wiped out, but were adapted.
--We know that Sovereign was responsible for the rachni's madness, and that the new rachni are currently preparing to fight the Reapers (if you spared the queen, that is)
--If Wrex is alive, he is uniting the krogan.
--Mordin may come up with a genophage cure.
--We know that only a small fraction of the geth actually supported Sovereign.  The geth "Heretics" have been defeated, and an alliance with the geth may be possible.
--...on the other hand, a quarian invasion of geth space may happen soon.  The quarians may even re-subjugate the geth.
--You possibly have the support of Cerberus
--You possibly do not have the support of the Council and the Alliance.
--You may be able to use the Reapers' own technology against them.

That was off the top of my head.  I think that's a pretty sizeable addition to the big picture.


Rachni queen was lying. Sovereign did not indoctrinate the Rachni, or it wouldn't need the Rachni queen in the first place. And unleashing the Rachni on the Galaxy when it wasn't still "ripe" would be contrary to the Reapers' farming protocol.


Only if you do Legion's loyalty. If you send Legion to Cerberus chances are all Geth will become Heretics and actively hostile in ME3.


That's YOUR opinion.
Agreed, mainly since it is very obvious.

#46
Dean_the_Young

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DarthCaine wrote...

What was the point of ME1 ?

Nothing, apparently.

The Reapers were in darkspace, trying to get back.

We discovered, responded to, and stopped an attempt.

The Reapers were still in Darkspace.

Ergo, we must not have moved forward.

#47
Pro_Consul

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

Based on what reasoning do you conclude that this IS a red herring from the writers who have completely eschewed them up to this point? (That was a rhetorical question, I am not actually inviting you to highjack this thread by giving a detailed answer.)


So I'll give you a quick answer:

It's either a red herring or a plot hole.


That, by you, is "reasoning". I guess that sorta does answer my question, although not at all in the way I was expecting.

Hmm... One or more Reapers is said to have attempted to indoctrinate the Rachni by trying to highjack their telepathic means of communication, with the affect that it drove them to extremes of uncontrolled aggression. So  when some hapless explorers unwittingly showed them how to use their local relay they used it to wage a ferocious campaign of unreasoned destruction in Council space. This is supposed to be either a red herring or a plot hole, yet I see no reason to assume it is either. The most likely scenario, in fact, is that it is exactly what happened in this fictional milieu. I have heard before the criticism that if it had happened like this before, then the rachni should be powerless to stop it from happening again. But this doesn't necessarily hold, when one considers that THIS time the rachni know what was done to them, as well as how, by whom and for what purpose it was done. And if it does hold, it has yet to be put to the test since there aren't exactly a host of Reapers running about in Council space (where the rachni currently live) ready to try it again.

If you really believe it is a plot hole or a red herring, I would truly appreciate it if you would start a thread on that and explain in detail why you believe that. It could provide some lively and interesting debate.

#48
Sandbox47

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Gaaah! Why this post again? Can't we just wait and see what ME3 has to say on the subject before we panic?

#49
hamtyl07

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how about we not ask questions and just enjoy what bioware has given us thus far, the second game is just like any second chapter of any seires you get your tie-ins well at the same time your get introduced to new elements (new enimies, new places, and so on). As it has been said i assume numorius times your goal is to figure out what this enemy wants and why thier doing it which in turn ties directly to the reapers. but with that said i think i will stop before I start to ramble

#50
didymos1120

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Sandbox47 wrote...

Gaaah! Why this post again? Can't we just wait and see what ME3 has to say on the subject before we panic?


C'mon!  That's, like, months away.  Arguing on the internet is all we've got. :P