92 réponses à ce sujet

[Da_Lion_Man]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I'm confused. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"? But it was broke. Sovereign was unable to summon the Reapers from dark space. Therefore, you would think he would call upon all his available resources to try and fix the problem. The Collectors' paralyzing seeker swarms could've been invaluable in any number of situations.

Considering this, it is rather amusing. Sovereign could have rallied the Collectors inside because their meteor of a vessel is a tad conspicuous and upon invading the Citadel. Let loose the Seeker Swarms, paralyzing everyone, including Shepard. Saren can then fumble about on the main control, Sovereign will do his little "open sesame" to Dark Space while everyone watches. The Reapers do their... reaping and voila. Victory.

Sovereign just... sort of forgot about that. Probably best he died because I can imagine his Reaper friends are not wholly impressed with him.

OMG that's a big plothole right there

[glacier1701]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

....snip....

(1) All right, I can give you the "rough estimate", but the Galactic civilization was still too young at that time to be suitable for reaping.

This is an assumption now being made by many people and I do not see ANY evidence that supports this contention. We do have evidence (which you choose to not believe as being a lie) that 2000 years ago Sovereign tried to send the signal to activate the Citadel. Can you point to the information inside the game that says that this was too early?

Zulu_DFA wrote...


(2) Life maybe? And I am of the opinion that the queen wasn't saying in ME1 that the Rachni had been indoctrinated. But it was lying when it promised to behave.

(3) Time to build up and become independent of your naive mercy? So that if some Council agent stumbled upon the breeding Rachni, they would have at least you as an ally to vouch for them and stall the containment effort somewhat, while they were spreading over the Galaxy like locust?

The interpretation that the Rachni were indoctrinated is one most believe in. Obviously that does not make it true but I, personally, see no ambiguity in the statement made that that was the intent of the statements. You see that differently and that is your opinion and surprisingly there is nothing else elsewhere that we can point to help resolve things either way.

Since I see that the Rachni were indoctrinated I dont see any problem with the Rachni. After all the way I see things what sets us apart from The Reapers is that we at least believe that the current galaxy is worth preserving and not as some sort of slurpified goop inside a reaper shell. Mordin does not blame the current Krogans for what went on the path and indeed says he is happy to see that some seem to be getting the message as to how to properly live with others. You, like the Council, seem to think that regardless of how many generations pass the people must always be blamed for the history of their people.

Zulu_DFA wrote...


As for the story in general, I agree it suffered due to the crappy shift towards the 3D-arcade gameplay style and shameless fan service, but only in presentation (aka plot). The pivotal points of the script of the trilogy were never thrown out and substituted with something else.

Shepard was always destined to work for Ceberus. Only it was poorly explained for the paragons.
The Reapers were always targetting Humanity, but not until ME2 they went to open action.

 Sorry if my point did not make it clear - yes the overal storyarc did not change but I do see the internal ME2 story having done that. So in some ways we are in agreement on that point. Personally though I do not see that we HAD to work with Cerberus. There were OTHER story options that could have worked just as well, if not better. I believe that the easy option was taken even if it ran roughshod over much of what was established in ME1.

[Loup Blanc]

FOZ289 wrote...

The whole story?  Can someone explain why Mass Effect 2 mattered at all in the big picture? 
They introduced a new enemy, and you spend the whole game fighting them and them only.  By the end you're no better off against the Reapers.  If any mention of Reapers were removed, Mass Effect 2 would stand entirely alone.  But the thing is, this is the 2nd game and they only have 3 games (well, and a bunch of novels and comics) to tell the story, and you'd figure something would be added, and so this kind of stands out as a huge oversight.

Well we'll have to wait for ME3, won't we? I am convinced ME2 was indeed about building your team and caring about your characters who will still be there in ME3. This way you don't have to do the whole recruiting thing again in 3 and you can jump right away into the action.

[AlexXIV]

JL81 wrote...

FOZ289 wrote...

The whole story?  Can someone explain why Mass Effect 2 mattered at all in the big picture? 
They introduced a new enemy, and you spend the whole game fighting them and them only.  By the end you're no better off against the Reapers.  If any mention of Reapers were removed, Mass Effect 2 would stand entirely alone.  But the thing is, this is the 2nd game and they only have 3 games (well, and a bunch of novels and comics) to tell the story, and you'd figure something would be added, and so this kind of stands out as a huge oversight.

Well we'll have to wait for ME3, won't we? I am convinced ME2 was indeed about building your team and caring about your characters who will still be there in ME3. This way you don't have to do the whole recruiting thing again in 3 and you can jump right away into the action.

Unless in the first minute of ME3 the Normandy and the whole crew gets blown up again and we have to start from scrap.

[Loup Blanc]

AlexXIV wrote...

JL81 wrote...

FOZ289 wrote...

The whole story?  Can someone explain why Mass Effect 2 mattered at all in the big picture? 
They introduced a new enemy, and you spend the whole game fighting them and them only.  By the end you're no better off against the Reapers.  If any mention of Reapers were removed, Mass Effect 2 would stand entirely alone.  But the thing is, this is the 2nd game and they only have 3 games (well, and a bunch of novels and comics) to tell the story, and you'd figure something would be added, and so this kind of stands out as a huge oversight.

Well we'll have to wait for ME3, won't we? I am convinced ME2 was indeed about building your team and caring about your characters who will still be there in ME3. This way you don't have to do the whole recruiting thing again in 3 and you can jump right away into the action.

Unless in the first minute of ME3 the Normandy and the whole crew gets blown up again and we have to start from scrap.

I really try to dismiss this claim. I hope they won't go that route. I can't believe they'd do this after the time we took to know our squaddies in ME2. It would be such a waste.

[TuringPoint]

 I guess I don't feel ME2 could stand alone without any mention of the Reapers.  I never stopped feeling the influence of those pesky machine devils.

The main plot was quite well done from my perspective.  From a cinematic standpoint, if the three games ran together as a movie, maybe ME2 would be a lull in the pace.  It feels pretty epic to me to have an impression of what the Reapers do and want, at least a little bit, before we face them head on.  Foiling the same Reaper plot over three games, three times over again, seems to be what would please a lot of people, but wouldn't that be boring and simplistic?

Modifié par Alocormin, 02 janvier 2011 - 02:29 .

[Matt VT Schlo]

FOZ289 wrote...

 Can someone explain why Mass Effect 2 mattered at all in the big picture? 
They introduced a new enemy, and you spend the whole game fighting them and them only. 

Dude, what game were you playing.......? While I love ME2, I spent 75% recruiting/making my people happy and 25% actually fighting Collectors...

I look at it as ME3: the prequel

Modifié par Matt VT Schlo, 02 janvier 2011 - 06:49 .

[Dionkey]

What was the point of ME1? Why didnt Saren just use the Citadel controls when no one would suspect him? Its a game. ME2 had a bad plot but that's not the point. ME2 was made to build characters and tune/refine the game along with tying up a few loose ends (Protheans). Don't try to piece it together too hard, they would have introduced some random enemy if it weren't for the collectors anyway. Its not like the reapers could go any faster.

[Nightwriter]

Dionkey wrote...

What was the point of ME1? Why didnt Saren just use the Citadel controls when no one would suspect him?

I'm thinking it's because not even Saren could get direct, unmonitored access to the Council Chambers, and once he tried to access the core the keepers would immediately try to stop him, thereby drawing attention to himself.

But! Every story has plotholes. ME2 did some weird things but it doesn't mean they won't make sense in ME3.

[Slayer299]

SSV Enterprise wrote...
PS Zulu DFA -- keep your epileptic trees to yourself, kthx.

:D

[The Spamming Troll]

i enjoy seeing all these people claiming ME2 has just a filler role or is more of a bridge between games. ME2 represents gears of war equally as much as it represents ME1. ME3 is going to be nothing more then ME2: part 2. mark me words. itll be wierd playing the third installment of a trilogy, and thinking the first one was actually the best one anyways.

[didymos1120]

Nightwriter wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

What was the point of ME1? Why didnt Saren just use the Citadel controls when no one would suspect him?

I'm thinking it's because not even Saren could get direct, unmonitored access to the Council Chambers, and once he tried to access the core the keepers would immediately try to stop him, thereby drawing attention to himself.

I always imagined it would go something like this:

Saren: *takes elevator to Council Chamber*

Everybody currently in Council Chamber:  "Hey!  That's Saren Arterius.  Wonder what he's doing here.  Must be important.  Anyone got popcorn?"  *start watching Saren*

Bunch of other curious people with Council access privileges: *Exit elevator. Also start watching him*

Saren: *Acts casual.  Strolls over towards Council*

Council: *Wondering what the hell Saren is doing here*

Saren:  *Reaches destination, smiles reassuringly*

Asari Councilor: Saren, we were just wondering...what the hell are you doing here?

Saren: Oh, you know...just sayin'  "Hey."  *starts fiddling with omni-tool*

Asari Councilor:  Uh-huh.  So, care to explain what that giant control-panel looking thing that just appeared out fo the floor is....now what are you doing?

Saren:  Ummmmm.....ensuring galactic stability?

Asari Councilor: OK. That's nice...and thanks...but we were kinda hoping for, you know, an actual explanation for your increasingly suspicious behavior and sudden, unexplained knowledge of heretofore hidden Citadel systems.  Also, all the keepers are staring at you in a highly unsettling way.  We don't like that.

Saren: Right. Well, it's kind of a long story.  And boring.  Really, really boring.  You sure you want to hear this?

Council: *stare*

Saren: OMG LOOK OVER THERE!  IT'S CAPTAIN ANDERSON!  *starts rapidly pushing buttons*

Keepers: *freak out*

Council: *also freak out*

Crowd of Onlookers: *Unsure if they should freak out, but totally enjoying the show regardless*

Salarian Councilor:  *signals snipers*

Snipers: *BANG!*

Saren:  Ack! *dies*

Turian Councilor:  Dismissed, Agent Arterius.

Sovereign: @#$%!

Modifié par didymos1120, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:24 .

[Pro_Consul]

Didymos, that is completely, as in 100%, unrealistic. The kind of crowd that hangs out in the Council Chambers is like lobbyists, ambassadors, admirals and such. They would NOT have been passing popcorn around. No way. I draw the line right there.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

The Geth, The Quarians, The Genophage Cure, The Gray Box, The Collector Base, The Shadow Broker....theres alot of things that mattered, infact they mattered a whole ****ing lot. although admitedly you are able to make decisions that "kill" almost all of these things...things matter. Also this game learned us on alot of the NATURE of the reapers and what they do with civilizations and how they reproduce. alot happened if you're smart enough to PAY ATTENTION...

[Inquisitor Recon]

What is the point of any good story? Something or someone needs killing. In this case the collectors.

[blazeingcxh]

Sorry didn't read past the first page. Here is how I look at the series.( Spoilers and all ME's needs to be redone into one game with like 5 disks )


HERE WE GO:

Protheans find relays all set up. They wonder why this is so but use it anyway. Quite logical if you think about what humans would do if we found the thing irl.
Now the reapers attack...OH NO! If I remember right the Protheans didn't put up to much of a fight, other than wiping their computers and hiding a few people. So they were remade into the Collectors.(read below)
Reaapers leave and reset the trap.
50k years rolls around again:
I assume that it is part of the reapers plot to pretend to be a ship. More than likely they'd know which beings they want to indoctrinate so they'd figure out a way to "come into their possession" Saren falls for this and is indoctrinated. Sovereign finds the Geth an unplanned-for surprise and interacts with them with caution, but still being his "incomprehensible self". Most geth see this for what it is and stay away, so they can develop on their on terms, but others don't. They fall for it and join Sovereign.

Cue Eden Prime. and ME1. I'm not quite sure how all this ties in yet, Its been a while since I've played.

Stuff happens and Shepard catches up to the plot. The council, due to years of relative ease don't believe you of course. More stuff happens and finally Sovereign dies. My theory is that The Reapers....reap....BUT when they come across a race or, rarely, an individual, they take interest in this race, since any group that fights them MUST be genetically advanced/special. The Protheans didn't put up a good enough fight to qualfy for this so they got remade into slaves. This starts ME2 and the kidnapping of the colonies. Now I think the Reapers really didn't plan on the baby human reaper being killed. So now they are angry, and are attacking earth.

SO even though I skipped some stuff, thepoint is I believe ME2 was VERY important in setting up the Reapers attack

Modifié par blazeingcxh, 03 janvier 2011 - 01:24 .

[glacier1701]

blazeingcxh wrote...


...snip....

Stuff happens and Shepard catches up to the plot. The council, due to years of relative ease don't believe you of course. More stuff happens and finally Sovereign dies. My theory is that The Reapers....reap....BUT when they come across a race or, rarely, an individual, they take interest in this race, since any group that fights them MUST be genetically advanced/special. The Protheans didn't put up a good enough fight to qualfy for this so they got remade into slaves. This starts ME2 and the kidnapping of the colonies. Now I think the Reapers really didn't plan on the baby human reaper being killed. So now they are angry, and are attacking earth.

SO even though I skipped some stuff, thepoint is I believe ME2 was VERY important in setting up the Reapers attack

Only problem is that the first time that the civilisation knows about the Reapers is when they appear at the Citadel and shut down everything. VERY hard to fight back if your ships are not able to move, not able to communicate and so on. That negates the 'test' so to speak. Besides which the ONLY reason the Reapers have not succeeded so far is because the Protheans did figure out what was happens and set up things so the next time the races would perhaps have a chance to find out about the Reapers before they appeared - which actually did not quite happen. Moreover we have information that suggests that the time to 'reap' was 2000 years ago when humanity was still far from being an industrial civilisation and would not have rated anything other than extermination via planetary bombardment.

[Nightwriter]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Didymos, that is completely, as in 100%, unrealistic. The kind of crowd that hangs out in the Council Chambers is like lobbyists, ambassadors, admirals and such. They would NOT have been passing popcorn around. No way. I draw the line right there.

But it ends with the turian Councilor "dismissing" Saren by sniper shot. Such awesomeness must surely be fact.

I declare didy Shaper of Memory for Mass Effect, head of the sacred Shaperate, Chronicler of History and the Stone.