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[Gorath Alpha]

I wonder how the codes from the Legacy Forums will transfer over?  I saved this, from about four years ago, before NWN2 was released (plain PCI outlived its usefulness): 

BioWare Community      Games   Neverwinter Nights 2 Forums

Logged in as: *The-Kiwi* > > Plain PCI video: it's worse than Integrated Video

Although the complaints seemed to stop coming up quite so often, so that the second iteration of this reference thread had been allowed to just age quietly, several recent recurrences of new members asking about these non-upgradeable (for gaming) add-in edge connector slots have appeared.  It is getting to be time that the current Graphics Rankings thread must be locked -- and the new one gets a copy of this, so the old must be all new again.
 
     * Plain PCI video: it's worse than Integrated Video*
   
  Posted: Saturday, 04 November   2006 08:30PM 
 
Having just a few hours ago dug up another thread about IGPs, out of its own grave in the Archived Arts & Graphics Forum, this equally old one was going to wait for another day to rejoin the living, but that was just not to be the case, after all. I needed it back now ..

Plain PCI is a shared bus, running at the slow speed of 33 MHz. AGP 3 runs at 66 MHz and accellerates to 8X. PCI-e accellerates 16X. The PCI bus is just totally  too slow.  Despite the recently released ATI X1300 in PCI, that card's own, already bog-slow, performance is cut down by more than half when matched to this slow, general purpose bus.  You're looking at an expensive part (very low demand for it) and terrible return on the investment. 

Neverwinter Nights 2 Forums BioWare Community

Logged in as: *The-Kiwi* NWN 2 Art and Graphics Engine

* PCI nwn2!! is there still hope yet?*

(Several meaningless and out of context old messages edited out at that point in the archive.)

*The-Kiwi* Game Owner Posted: Sunday, 01 October 2006 12:16PM
[quote]

I would be only a waste of time to bother (running SR Test). Without a dedicated video bus in the system, there is no chance of decent animation speed. That type Dell is/was intended as disposable.
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*shadowdrifter84* Joined: 30 Sep 2006

From: Toowoomba, Queensland Posted: Sunday, 01 October 2006 10:00PM
[quote]
I have to agree with Kiwi. Without at least AGP, you will be dead in the
water. PCI graphics cards stopped at G5 series and low 9000 series for
ATi (I believe) and even then they were truly low end.

My advice to ANYONE who is a serious gamer (or simply likes the option to upgrade) is not to buy proprietary PCs (Dells, HPs and similar companies - maybe with the exception of Alienware).

I know it can be rough to upgrade when your dirt poor (been through that one myself) but I will only bring you my honest opinion and no false hope. Without a new(er) PC, I doubt NwN2 will run for you. Sorry. Video is just too critical.

[/quote]

*The-Kiwi* Game Owner  Posted:  Sunday, 01 October 2006  10:39PM

[quote]
Anyone with a little ambition and a serious lack of funds should consider DIY. Brash priced out a budget PC from Newegg parts that would run Oblivion (not at max, merely to do so "adequately"), and came up with $353.46 worth, with the display, keyboard, and speakers all moving forward from the old junker.

The current version of a targeting price guide for the same sort of this is at http://nwn2forums.bi...34743&forum=109
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*lozznwn2* Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posted: Monday, 02 October 2006 11:06AM
[quote]
i*< "I" >*s there any otherway of getting an agp port or is it a new motherboard th*< "a" >*t i*< "I" >* need if so how do i*< "I" >* find one th*< "a" >*t is compatible with my pc's ram, ghz , and cpu speed
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loz
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*The-Kiwi* Game Owner Joined: 07 May 2003
From: Deep down in the south of Texas Posted: Monday, 02 October 2006 12:08PM
[quote]
    [Quote]  Posted 10/01/06 17:16:43 (GMT) by (yes, I wrote it) The-Kiwi

    Without a dedicated video bus in the system, there is no chance.
    That type Dell is intended as disposable.

Of the components currently in that cheap excuse for a PC, the CPU is also junk, not worth salvaging (Celeron), the case is proprietary, and thus beyond any further use, leaving only the drives and RAM to potentially re-use.

I think I would sell it as is for what you can get ($75-100, I'd guess, maybe a little more if you throw in a keyboard and a display), and start from a fresh page. Brash has already done all the ground work for that.
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Kiwi
 
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*SirTommy* Game Owner Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posted: Thursday, 05 October
2006 11:53AM
[quote]
    Quote:  Posted 10/02/06 03:33 (GMT) by The-Kiwi
    Anyone with a little ambition and a serious lack of funds should
    consider DIY. Brash priced out a budget PC from Newegg parts that
    would run Oblivion (not at max, merely to do so "adequately"), and
    came up with $353.46 worth...
   
    http://nwn2forums.bi...34743&forum=109

Hey Kiwi, you are the link-master!

I use www.DealNews.com http://www.DealNews.com> http://www.DealNews.com
& http://www.PriceWatch.com to find cheapest parts, but sometimes if you
visit a store's page, you can find cheaper prices, like $120 for AMD
Athlon 64 3400+ & MB.

Click Here Click Here
<http://promotions.ne...ard/index.html>
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*SirTommy* Game Owner Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posted: Thursday, 05 October
2006 11:55AM
[quote]
    [Quote]  Posted 10/02/06 17:42 (GMT) by The-Kiwi
    Of the components currently in that cheap excuse for a PC, the CPU
    is also junk, not worth salvaging (Celeron), the case is
    proprietary, and thus beyond any further use, leaving only the
    drives and RAM to potentially re-use.
[/quote]
I find it's worth keeping atleast one older computer around for file storage/backups, surf the web/chat with the other 'puter is playing a game, or to use as a game-server.
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*The-Kiwi* Game Owner Joined: 07 May 2003 From: Deep down in the south
of Texas Posted: Thursday, 05 October 2006 12:37PM
[quote]
My surfing box and file backup on the LAN is to this old thing, with an XP 2100 in it, that is within 2-3 weeks, at most, of retirement and disassembly.  The "business" PC is about to take the place of this one.  It has an XP 3000 in it. In my bedroom is the gaming box, with an XP-M Mobile CPU running at XP 3000 core speed.

I have a sufficient number (two) of seriously outdated, but full-power, PC's in reserve as loaners or eventual sources of cannibalization for friends who want to hold onto older stuff longer than I would, so I don't have to consider the half-measure of a Duron or Celeron (a Sempron is much less of a compromise, but I have none of those either).

I even have a working 486 stashed in the garage that can be squeezed into a spot when I get an overpowering urge to run Wing Commander, or another old MS-DOS classic.  What I don't have, for budget reasons, is an Core Duo/ Core Two Duo, or AMD FX class CPU, or a seventh generation GPU. My fastest CPU is a 3700 single core, just now going together, and fastest GPU is an AGP version of an X800 XTPE. Both of those are relatively recent additions.
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Kiwi
 
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/Edited By The-Kiwi on 10/05/06 12:42/
[/quote]

*The-Kiwi* Game Owner        Posted: Tuesday, 07 November 2006 02:26PM

[quote]
In another thread, lumping laptops with this class of awful desktop as unsupported, the title "Owners wailing and gnashing teeth" has hit a nerve, it seems.
[quote]
We have a new member with another of the junk PCs that were produced without any dedicated video bus. Sad, but true, HP and Sony still sell them in quantity, even if Dell has begun to de-emphasize this basement level of budget machine.

The complete system upgrade for a Dell Dimension was last price-checked
for $338: (that old thread has been superceded, so I edited the link out)
[/quote][/quote]
*The-Unraveller*  Game Owner      Posted: Friday, 10 November 2006 01:39PM

[quote]
I can't fathom that people think they are going to run any of today's
games on a PCI card

p.s. that post is kinda hard to read

/Edited By The-Unraveller on 11/10/06 13:46/
[/quote]

*The-Kiwi*  Game Owner      Posted: Wednesday, 15 November 2006 01:45PM
[quote]
    [Quote]

    We have a new member with another of the junk PCs that were produced
    without any dedicated video bus. HP and Sony still sell them in
    quantity, even if Dell (they did it first) has begun to de-emphasize
    this basement level of budget machine.

    The complete system upgrade for a Dell Dimension was last
    price-checked for $338:
    http://nwn2forums.bi...05550&forum=109

[/quote]
I've seen still another "no video bus" member arrive here yesterday . .
can anyone confirm whether Dell dropped the awful no-video bus things
completely or not?

.[/quote]