465 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

wolfsite wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

But it does contribute a ton of "evidence" for the "Cerberus is inept" argument.

You clearly missed the point of Overlord. It was definitely contributing evidence to the "Cerberus is evil" argument.

Maybe it was trying to, but it came across as "Cerberus is utterly inept". But it's an inept piece of writing, nothing more.
Anyway, I have dismissed it.

Then all future posts from you are invalid and no longer have any say in this.  If you want to support Cerberus you have to take everything that is Cerberus which includes Overlord, you can't just say oh Cerberus is great but since this makes us looks bad I declare it didn't happen.

There are quite a few real world examples I can use but frankly I feel I would be dishonouring those who died in them to use it in comparison to a video game.

Friend, discussing validity of someone's posts is invalid, because it's off-topic.

I dismiss the "Overlord", because it's crap, not because it makes Ceberus look bad. In fact, it fails flat at making Cerberus look bad, because you can't really blame an in-universe entity for a plot hole. And just for the record, I would still dismiss it, even if it was a Council or Quarian or Eclipse-run "project".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 03 janvier 2011 - 10:51 .

[wolfsite]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

But it does contribute a ton of "evidence" for the "Cerberus is inept" argument.

You clearly missed the point of Overlord. It was definitely contributing evidence to the "Cerberus is evil" argument.

Maybe it was trying to, but it came across as "Cerberus is utterly inept". But it's an inept piece of writing, nothing more.
Anyway, I have dismissed it.

Then all future posts from you are invalid and no longer have any say in this.  If you want to support Cerberus you have to take everything that is Cerberus which includes Overlord, you can't just say oh Cerberus is great but since this makes us looks bad I declare it didn't happen.

There are quite a few real world examples I can use but frankly I feel I would be dishonouring those who died in them to use it in comparison to a video game.

Friend, discussing validity of someone's posts is invalid, becasue it's off-topic.

I dismiss the "Overlord", becasue it's crap, not because it makes Ceberus look bad. In fact, it fails flat at making Cerberus look bad, because you can't really blame an in-universe entity for a plot hole. And just for the record, I would still dismiss it, even if it was a Council or Quarian or Eclipse-run "project".

Uhm why did you post a reply with nothing in it?


Anyway, no matter what people say, there are either inept or power mad people in Cerberus, you can't deny that, but someone did post an interesting thought.

How can you preserve and advance humanity when you are throwing away your humanity to do it.

[Zulu_DFA]

wolfsite wrote...

How can you preserve and advance humanity when you are throwing away your humanity to do it.

Define "humanity".

[wolfsite]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

How can you preserve and advance humanity when you are throwing away your humanity to do it.

Define "humanity".

The sense that we are all the same and that each of us has basic needs and rights.

[Encarmine]

Uhm why did you post a reply with nothing in it?


Anyway, no matter what people say, there are either inept or power mad people in Cerberus, you can't deny that, but someone did post an interesting thought.

How can you preserve and advance humanity when you are throwing away your humanity to do it.

Define humanity? were not a nobel peace loving race, I would say we are pragmatic, ruthless and cold as a collective.
Overlord, I personaly enjoyed, and the morals of it?? well one man sacrificed with the potential chance to take control of the entire Geth Synthetic race? 
It was technicly possible, they had worked it out, and theory was sound (in ME universe anyway), Project Overlord was guilty of cutting courners nothing more.
Cerberus is not evil, if you think cerberus is totaly evil, i Invite you to begin educating youselves on the British Empire, the Empire of the United States of America and Isreal, these factions have done/do evil things for their own personal gain, not for humanity.

Cerberus has the advancement of the entire human race as its core value, you CANNOT judge cerberus, as we dont know enough about the other races secret operations like the STG or Asari Commandos (who seem to lend their expertise to anyone with some credits).

For all you know, Cerberus could be tame in comparison to other factions. SO back down and stop hating on your own race, Liberal Self Hating is a serious problem in real life for western society, and i find it funny to see it so prevelent here also.

[Jagri]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I dismiss the "Overlord", because it's crap, not because it makes Ceberus look bad. In fact, it fails flat at making Cerberus look bad, because you can't really blame an in-universe entity for a plot hole. And just for the record, I would still dismiss it, even if it was a Council or Quarian or Eclipse-run "project".

Doesn't make Cerberus look bad? If not for the fact if Shepard had not got there in time Cerberus would have unleashed Mass Effect's version of Skynet on the galaxy and in the process accomplish nearly killing everyone and everything related to the project due to incompetents. 

You might not like it but Project Overlord is established lore in the Mass Effect universe.

[Zulu_DFA]

wolfsite wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

How can you preserve and advance humanity when you are throwing away your humanity to do it.

Define "humanity".

The sense that we are all the same and that each of us has basic needs and rights.

I don't have such a sense. I'm definitely not the same as my buddy Bob, my neighbor Charlie or my girlfriend Alice. Each of us has different needs and abilities to satisfy them. One thing we sure have in common though. On this particular subject they have the same opinion as myself. Therefore, your definition of "humanity" is refuted.

However, in the ME universe there are the Humans and multiple alien races. Each race definitely has different needs. Therefore, Cerberus' policy of securing Human dominance does not infringe in the slightest that what you call "humanity".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 03 janvier 2011 - 11:26 .

[Encarmine]

Doesn't make Cerberus look bad? If not for the fact if Shepard had not got there in time Cerberus would have unleashed Mass Effect's version of Skynet on the galaxy and in the process accomplish nearly killing everyone and everything related to the project due to incompetents. 

You might not like it but Project Overlord is established lore in the Mass Effect universe.

Your making the assumption that another super hero wouldnt of stopped it at some point. Maybe the virus would of got off world but at some point, it would of been contained. Shepards intervention mearly ensured it was nipped in the bud.

[Jagri]

Encarmine wrote...

Doesn't make Cerberus look bad? If not for the fact if Shepard had not got there in time Cerberus would have unleashed Mass Effect's version of Skynet on the galaxy and in the process accomplish nearly killing everyone and everything related to the project due to incompetents. 

You might not like it but Project Overlord is established lore in the Mass Effect universe.

Your making the assumption that another super hero wouldnt of stopped it at some point. Maybe the virus would of got off world but at some point, it would of been contained. Shepards intervention mearly ensured it was nipped in the bud.

The situation is quite a bit worse then you may grasp when it came to Project Overlord. It had the ability to completely bypass EDI which is a true AI with unmatch processing power. Any computer with a link to the extranet would have been subjected to the virus. Its quite hard for the heros of the galaxy if ever ship, communication dish, and computer network is trying to kill him or her.

Fact it is postively crippling to the galaxy at large when communications are cut off and ships are turning off vital systems such as life support in order to... "Make the noise stop."

[greatgeek]

Encarmine wrote...

Doesn't make Cerberus look bad? If not for the fact if Shepard had not got there in time Cerberus would have unleashed Mass Effect's version of Skynet on the galaxy and in the process accomplish nearly killing everyone and everything related to the project due to incompetents. 

You might not like it but Project Overlord is established lore in the Mass Effect universe.

Your making the assumption that another super hero wouldnt of stopped it at some point. Maybe the virus would of got off world but at some point, it would of been contained. Shepards intervention mearly ensured it was nipped in the bud.

Proof please.

[wolfsite]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

How can you preserve and advance humanity when you are throwing away your humanity to do it.

Define "humanity".

The sense that we are all the same and that each of us has basic needs and rights.

I don't have such a sense. I'm definitely not the same as my buddy Bob, my neighbor Charlie or my girlfriend Alice. Each of us has different needs and abilities to satisfy them. One thing we sure have in common though. On this particular subject they have the same opinion as myself. Therefore, your definition of "humanity" is refuted.

The sense that we are all "Biologically" the same thus we have the same needs such as food, shelter, and to survive.

You can easily throw your own humanity away by denying those to others (Survival being the main point here) <Hmm I should word this part better later, you know honestly something like this really needs to be done in person I would just love to see your passions and beliefs put into the vocal word>

I was gonna post a super cheery lovey dovy piece on humanity being love and compassion but I fugred everyone would just throw up on there keyboards so I decided to save you all the clean up/

Modifié par wolfsite, 03 janvier 2011 - 11:28 .

[Zulu_DFA]

wolfsite wrote...

The sense that we are all "Biologically" the same thus we have the same needs such as food, shelter, and to survive.

"Biologically" there is a lot more similarity between a human male and a chimpanzee male, than between a human male and human female.

wolfsite wrote...

You can easily throw your own humanity away by denying those to others (Survival being the main point here)

Turans aren't Humans. They are aliens from another planet. Cats and dogs, and even crocodiles are more of a kinsfolk to the Humans than the Turians. Therefore, I wouldn't throw away my "humanity" (even by your definition) if I denied something to a Turian.

wolfsite wrote...

I was gonna post a super cheery lovey dovy piece on humanity being love and compassion but I fugred everyone would just throw up on there keyboards so I decided to save you all the clean up/

You figured right.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 03 janvier 2011 - 11:35 .

[Encarmine]

Proof please.

My point exactly, there is no Proof either way, I cant prove it would be stopped and you cant proove it couldnt be.

Making Overord Irrellivent in a debate on Cerberus Hate

[Encarmine]

The situation is quite a bit worse then you may grasp when it came to Project Overlord. It had the ability to completely bypass EDI which is a true AI with unmatch processing power. Any computer with a link to the extranet would have been subjected to the virus. Its quite hard for the heros of the galaxy if ever ship, communication dish, and computer network is trying to kill him or her.

Fact it is postively crippling to the galaxy at large when communications are cut off and ships are turning off vital systems such as life support in order to... "Make the noise stop."

You cannot assume anything on this, I know how serious the leak could of been, but how can you reduce the entire galaxy to total idiots incapable of finding a solution to the problem.

Yes it would of been bad, but to assume the whole known galaxy would be wiped out due to this, is a damning verdict on the galactic community, to the point im suprized they have survived as long as they have, if using your logic.

But again, we cant Judge cerberus, as we have no comparible to measure them against.

[Zulu_DFA]

Jagri wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I dismiss the "Overlord", because it's crap, not because it makes Ceberus look bad. In fact, it fails flat at making Cerberus look bad, because you can't really blame an in-universe entity for a plot hole. And just for the record, I would still dismiss it, even if it was a Council or Quarian or Eclipse-run "project".

Doesn't make Cerberus look bad? If not for the fact if Shepard had not got there in time Cerberus would have unleashed Mass Effect's version of Skynet on the galaxy and in the process accomplish nearly killing everyone and everything related to the project due to incompetents. 

You might not like it but Project Overlord is established lore in the Mass Effect universe.

Established lore is that Cerberus runs some project called "Overlord". The accident happens only in your personal canon if you download and install that crap.

[Jagri]

Encarmine wrote...

Proof please.

My point exactly, there is no Proof either way, I cant prove it would be stopped and you cant proove it couldnt be.

Making Overord Irrellivent in a debate on Cerberus Hate

Odds are if a majority of the universe runs on the extranet like the world is run by the internet today then once the virus hits the extranet no one outside of God himself dropping from the heavens could stop it. 

[Encarmine]

I think from looking over these posts,



we can conclude the hatred of Cerberus is emotionally charged, and irrelivent.

Its similer to saying you hate the CIA when you only have a pin ****** sized hole on which to view their activities from.

Without a comparible group with which we can measure Cerberus against, any moral judgements on them are naive.

One mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter

[Encarmine]

Odds are if a majority of the universe runs on the extranet like the world is run by the internet today then once the virus hits the extranet no one outside of God himself dropping from the heavens could stop it. 

but you cant proove that can you. no one can, and i cant proove it would be contained, so for this debate about 'why people hate cerberus and tim' it is a non entity. Of no importance

[Jagri]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Jagri wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I dismiss the "Overlord", because it's crap, not because it makes Ceberus look bad. In fact, it fails flat at making Cerberus look bad, because you can't really blame an in-universe entity for a plot hole. And just for the record, I would still dismiss it, even if it was a Council or Quarian or Eclipse-run "project".

Doesn't make Cerberus look bad? If not for the fact if Shepard had not got there in time Cerberus would have unleashed Mass Effect's version of Skynet on the galaxy and in the process accomplish nearly killing everyone and everything related to the project due to incompetents. 

You might not like it but Project Overlord is established lore in the Mass Effect universe.

Established lore is that Cerberus runs some project called "Overlord". The accident happens only in your personal canon if you download and install that crap.

 
So the events in "Bring Down the Sky" could as well never take place in the Mass Effect universe case you can simply refuse to play them or that the "Lair of the Shadow Broker" need not ether? Well good I can dismiss Cerberus ever defeating the Shadow Broker in any way shape or form.

Encarmine wrote...
but you cant proove that can you. no one can, and i cant proove it would be contained, so for this debate about 'why people hate cerberus and tim' it is a non entity. Of no importance

Well if your going to reason like that then can you prove Cerberus is going to use its research to help defeat the Reapers? No you cannot but you can reasonably suggest that they do in order to ensure there own survival correct? 

Modifié par Jagri, 04 janvier 2011 - 12:00 .

[wolfsite]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

You can easily throw your own humanity away by denying those to others (Survival being the main point here)

Turans aren't Humans. They are aliens from another planet. Cats and dogs, and even crocodiles are more of a kinsfolk to the Humans than the Turians. Therefore, I wouldn't throw away my "humanity" (even by your definition) if I denied something to a Turian.

Okay just need to point out, I never once mentioned or referred to the Turians so not sure where you are going there.

Again another reason discussions like this are terrible on a forum.  Seriously if we all got together we could shoot the ****, have a few drinks then laugh about it later on.

[Zulu_DFA]

Encarmine wrote...

I think from looking over these posts,

we can conclude the hatred of Cerberus is emotionally charged, and irrelivent.
Its similer to saying you hate the CIA when you only have a pin ****** sized hole on which to view their activities from.
Without a comparible group with which we can measure Cerberus against, any moral judgements on them are naive.
One mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter

A couple of pages back I made a comparison between Ceberus and the Council. Cerberus has made thousands of their own people (the Humans) unhappy by detonation of Eezo over populated areas.

The Council made an entire alien race of billions of individuals (the Krogans) unhappy by developing and deploying the genophage. And the Krogans are so desperate that they volunteer for "unethical experiments".

So it's pretty clear to me who is more of a racist and war criminal here.

[Zulu_DFA]

Jagri wrote...

So the events in "Bring Down the Sky" could as well never take place in the Mass Effect universe case you can simply refuse to play them or that the "Lair of the Shadow Broker" need not ether? Well good I can dismiss Cerberus ever defeating the Shadow Broker in any way shape or form.

"Bring Down the Sky" happens regardless. If you don't download it, must be another hero who saved Terra Nova. (There is a news blurb but Shepard isn't mentioned).

As for the "Shadow Broker", it still remains to be seen how it'll be handled. My guess is that Liara will have become the Shadow Broker without Shepard's assitance. But not without Cerberus'.

But the "Overlord" was just there to trade the mindless and storywise pointless piece of "pew-pew" stuff for your money. So in ME3 you'll get a "Thank you" e-mail from David, don't you worry.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 04 janvier 2011 - 12:11 .

[Jagri]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Encarmine wrote...

I think from looking over these posts,

we can conclude the hatred of Cerberus is emotionally charged, and irrelivent.
Its similer to saying you hate the CIA when you only have a pin ****** sized hole on which to view their activities from.
Without a comparible group with which we can measure Cerberus against, any moral judgements on them are naive.
One mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter

A couple of pages back I made a comparison between Ceberus and the Council. Cerberus has made thousands of their own people (the Humans) unhappy by detonation of Eezo over populated areas.

The Council made an entire alien race of billions of individuals (the Krogans) unhappy by developing and deploying the genophage. And the Krogans are so desperate that they volunteer for "unethical experiments".

So it's pretty clear to me who is more of a racist and war criminal here.

No system of government is perfect nor person born. It is in there hands to ensure that war crimes are punished and remembered. Tricky part is just who is to be punished.

But from what we understand of the Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellion is alot less then we know about Cerberus.  Wasn't a supporting arguement that we lack the information in order to judge Cerberus?

Modifié par Jagri, 04 janvier 2011 - 12:11 .

[Xilizhra]

Remember that A: none of the Council members who did that exist anymore and B: it was a successful and necessary attempt to stop a worse war. None of Cerberus' darker activities, as I've said, have born fruit that was vital to anything.

[Zulu_DFA]

Jagri wrote...

Wasn't a supporting arguement that we lack the information in order to judge Cerberus?

The argument is: Cerberus has to commit a lot more atrocities before it can even hope to measure up to the Council in its evilness.