465 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfsite]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Made advancements in controlling Geth. Advancements that are unparalleled.

It's been shown that the Geth are willing to work with Other species for common goals and a peaceful resolution is possible, creating a device to control them would merely give them reason to continue the war.

Took down the SB and put a (potential) ally in charge.

Liara is Shepards Ally and it is obvious Cerberus does not trust her.  The SB in itself is also a grey area since even before this the SB would sell info to anyone so no clear advantage.

The defeat of the Collectors (making safe all of the human Terminus colonies)

Cerberus was responsible for putting some of said colonies in danger in the first place, they also destroyed several colonies in ME1 to test the Dragon teeth.  Also They wanted to keep the Collector base despite the fact that all working Reaper technology has always indoctrinated all living beings in or near them into mingless drones to serve the reapers which would put us right back to where we started before ME2, and even if it didn't how many humans would Cerberus "Repurpose" to test out the technology.

Modifié par wolfsite, 02 janvier 2011 - 02:29 .

[Sesshomaru47]

They and he and psychotic and xenophobic wastes of space...that's just my opinion though

[luakel]

Aeowyn wrote...
Out of curiosity, is this all in the codex? Because I want to read this.

Both of Dean's examples can be found here, all of COAW's things look like they happened in the game.

[Sashimi_taco]

If you read the books you will see just how bad they are. Also if you play as a soul survivor you will find out some pretty messed up stuff too, but not as bad as the books. Cerberus is a pretty nasty organization.

[Dean_the_Young]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

KeyBane wrote...

I know it gets brought up every time, but Akuze says hello.

Cerberus' link to Akuze is circumstantial.

Cerberus's link to Akuze isn't circumstantial: both Toombs and Spectre whats-her-name will testify (though the second is a bit less authoritative than the first).


Cerberus's basis for Akuze is separate, being as Cerberus was not considered a rogue Alliance black-ops at the time, and Akuze was a site of a 'top secret alliance project' even before the marines were sent in. Cerberus was unquestionably involved, but not necessarily responsible for ordering it.

I fail to see how Toombs is a reliable witness in any way. I'm not denying something shady went down there, but the facts are hardly known. Also, any unethical behavior probably implicates the Alliance more than Cerberus.

The better question would by why Toombs isn't credible in regards to his testimony, especially when his is supported by the scientist if you take them both. The 'why' is a open question (ranging from 'because we're evil' to 'Colony just got wiped out, need to see how marines fare NOW' rush rush), but that Cerberus was involved?

The Alliance being the ones to order Cerberus to be involved doesn't change what Cerberus did. It just gives context and a higher power to hold ultimately responsible as opposed to immediately responsible.

What do you mean "as a matter of policy"? If you're saying that an organization outside of the law must be treated as criminal, I agree. If you are saying that an individual should hate all independent "criminal" groups regardless of purpose and action, I do not agree. Also, I'm fairly convinced Cerberus is either with the Alliance or the Alliance said to them, "we're going to declare you 'rogue'" *wink*.

I'm saying that Cerberus, routinely, does things that can deserve hate. Assassinations, drug running, weapons smuggling, fatal experiments. You can hate them for any of that.

Whether they are sanctioned by the Alliance doesn't really justify them. It just means that parts of the Alliance (the ones that know and condone) need to be brought to heel as well.

I agree, I just don't think this really implicates Cerberus. The Alliance probably wanted him dead just as much if not more. Kahoku was an uncompromising soldier who was killed due to one or either of these organizations trying to save face. Kahoku was a tragic character.

He was found dead in a Cerberus base. Even if some people in the Alliance helped point him out/track him down/take him in, I don't think you cancredibly argue that Cerberus didn't do it.

That Cerberus had reasonable reason to do it? A coverup isn't a personal grudge or a frivilous assassination of someone who doesn't agree with you. But a reasonable reason does not make a correct action.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

[quote]wolfsite wrote...

[quote]Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Made advancements in controlling Geth. Advancements that are unparalleled.[/quote]

It's been shown that the Geth are willing to work with Other species for common goals and a peaceful resolution is possible, creating a device to control them would merely give them reason to continue the war.
[/quote]

If your only evidence of this is Legion then it has hardly been "shown." Shepard has so little reason to trust Legion it's not even funny. With this single exception, the Geth have only ever showed hostility to organic life.

[quote]
[quote]Took down the SB and put a (potential) ally in charge.[/quote]

Liara is Shepards Ally and it is obvious Cerberus does not trust her.  The SB in itself is also a grey area since even before this the SB would sell info to anyone so no clear advantage.[/quote]

You mean the SB that allied himself with the Collectors (with knowledge of the Reapers)? Liara is definitely an upgrade for Cerberus.

[quote]
[quote]The defeat of the Collectors (making safe all of the human Terminus colonies)[/quote]

Cerberus was responsible for putting some of said colonies in danger in the first place, they also destroyed several colonies in ME1 to test the Dragon teeth.  Also They wanted to keep the Collector base despite the fact that all working Reaper technology has always indoctrinated all living beings in or near them into mingless drones to serve the reapers which would put us right back to where we started before ME2, and even if it didn't how many humans would Cerberus "Repurpose" to test out the technology.
[/quote]
[/quote]

1. They put those colonies in "danger" so they could attempt to stop them. I don't see why people think this is a bad thing. They directed the Collectors to specific colonies so they could determine their motives or try to stop them. It's not like the Collectors were taking a break and Cerberus tells them they should attack a human colony. Cerberus is the sole reason any colonies still exist.

2. Thanix Canons, EDI, Mass Effect drive cores, Mass Relays. All Reaper technology. None of them indoctrinate. That argument is invalid.

[Aeowyn]

But Cerberus do not trust Liara and even in the mission report TIM states that "Shepard's relation to Liara should be watched closely."

My theory is that he fears that Shepard now has a powerful ally (could even be seen as more powerful than Cerberus) and that Shepard won't be relying on Cerberus so much.

[AlexMBrennan]

Re OP: Please don't use "proof" when you mean "ambiguous data that might support one's side if one is already convinced it's true"

Secondly,ungrateful much? Cerberus bring you back to life

Just because it worked that time doesn't mean that it was the right decision - IMHO this only worked because of the anthropic principle.

If it wasn't for them, the galaxy truly would be doomed.

Debatable (I believe that the devs have stated that a KIA Shepard is not importable into ME3 and not that KIA Shepard will result in Reaper victory).

[Dean_the_Young]

wolfsite wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Made advancements in controlling Geth. Advancements that are unparalleled.

It's been shown that the Geth are willing to work with Other species for common goals and a peaceful resolution is possible, creating a device to control them would merely give them reason to continue the war.

First off, you really don't have proof that Legion isn't just bull****ting you to deceive you. He lacks verification.

More importantly, you don't even know about Legion, and thus the Heretics/'True' Geth split until late game, and you can never know about them if you did sell Legion to Cerberus. Before that point, all Geth are bad Geth, because there's no sign of anything different. Overlord started well before Legion came with his news, back when the True Geth just sort of watched as the Heretics did their best to slaughter people. (And they didn't help either, mind you.)

Liara is Shepards Ally and it is obvious Cerberus does not trust her.  The SB in itself is also a grey area since even before this the SB would sell info to anyone so no clear advantage.

And? Cerberus doesn't need to trust her for her to be an ally against the greater threat. Cerberus doesn't necessarily trust Shepard, or vice versa.

Liara isn't commited to Cerberus's destruction, is known to Cerberus, and has worked with Cerberus to mutual benefit before.

Cerberus was responsible for putting some of said colonies in danger in the first place, they also destroyed several colonies in ME1 to test the Dragon teeth.

Besides only one colony being destroyed by Dragon's Teeth in any way linked to Cerberus, we never even got any word, say-so, or reason to believe Cerberus started that process any more than that it started any of the other colonies/outposts in which miners found some Dragon's Teeth. Our only indication of Cerberus involvement in the first place was an email saying that Cerberus wanted 'samples.'

Also They wanted to keep the Collector base despite the fact that all working Reaper technology has always indoctrinated all living beings in or near them into mingless drones to serve the reapers

No it hasn't.

which would put us right back to where we started before ME2,

No it wouldn't.

and even if it didn't how many humans would Cerberus "Repurpose" to test out the technology.

Far fewer than are risked by a galactic extinction event.

And by 'far', we aren't talking even hundreds here.

[wolfsite]

[quote]Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

[quote]Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Made advancements in controlling Geth. Advancements that are unparalleled.[/quote]

It's been shown that the Geth are willing to work with Other species for common goals and a peaceful resolution is possible, creating a device to control them would merely give them reason to continue the war.
[/quote]

If your only evidence of this is Legion then it has hardly been "shown." Shepard has so little reason to trust Legion it's not even funny. With this single exception, the Geth have only ever showed hostility to organic life.

[/quote]

Project Overlord has shown that the Geth can be reasoned with, during the final encounter you see the tests they are doing to the Geth but when David talks to them the Geth said "Hello", not "We will kill you"

[quote]


[quote]
[quote]Took down the SB and put a (potential) ally in charge.[/quote]

Liara is Shepards Ally and it is obvious Cerberus does not trust her.  The SB in itself is also a grey area since even before this the SB would sell info to anyone so no clear advantage.[/quote]

You mean the SB that allied himself with the Collectors (with knowledge of the Reapers)? Liara is definitely an upgrade for Cerberus.


[/quote]

I said Cerberus does not trust Liara, also Liara has no love of Cerberus she only agreed to help them because they were promising to bring her friend/lover back (manipulation) you seem to ignored a few details, plus considering the cost to run an operation that Liara now has she can easily sell Cerberus info off which hardly makes her a reliable ally

[quote]
[quote]The defeat of the Collectors (making safe all of the human Terminus colonies)[/quote]

Cerberus was responsible for putting some of said colonies in danger in the first place, they also destroyed several colonies in ME1 to test the Dragon teeth.  Also They wanted to keep the Collector base despite the fact that all working Reaper technology has always indoctrinated all living beings in or near them into mingless drones to serve the reapers which would put us right back to where we started before ME2, and even if it didn't how many humans would Cerberus "Repurpose" to test out the technology.
[/quote]
[/quote]

[quote]
1. They put those colonies in "danger" so they could attempt to stop them. I don't see why people think this is a bad thing. They directed the Collectors to specific colonies so they could determine their motives or try to stop them. It's not like the Collectors were taking a break and Cerberus tells them they should attack a human colony. Cerberus is the sole reason any colonies still exist.

2. Thanix Canons, EDI, Mass Effect drive cores, Mass Relays. All Reaper technology. None of them indoctrinate. That argument is invalid.

[/quote]

I said WORKING reaper technology, plus the Mass Relays and all Reaper technology were designed so all cultures would progress on levels that the reapers deemed fit, so all progress followed what the Reapers want.

Modifié par wolfsite, 02 janvier 2011 - 02:47 .

[JamieCOTC]

Ryzaki wrote...

On topic: Cerberus and TIM have proven themselves time and time again to not only be lacking any ethical boundaries but to be utterly incompetent as well. I don't mind the ends justify the means. I do mind it when people use it as a sad excuse to make other people's lives miserable and utterly fail at nearly everything they do.

MyKingdomCold wrote...

Akuze and Admiral Kahoku

All this plus Jack.  They kidnapped her from her mother and then tried to make an all powerful biotic b*tch out of her.  They did and as usual, it backfired on them.  Cerberus is like Unit 731 run by incompetents.

[Nashiktal]

Why do I hate Cerberus? Sloppy writing and execution that is only slowly being fixed.

[Dean_the_Young]

And yet Jack still came to work on a Cerberus ship to help save humanity from an Alien threat, thereby fulfilling all the expectations and reasonings for making her who she was in the first place.



Ironies of fate. And a success against all odds (and itself).

[wolfsite]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And yet Jack still came to work on a Cerberus ship to help save humanity from an Alien threat, thereby fulfilling all the expectations and reasonings for making her who she was in the first place.

Ironies of fate. And a success against all odds (and itself).

Uh she only agreed to join to get info on Cerberus (Paragon) so she could kill everyone later.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I fail to see how Toombs is a reliable witness in any way. I'm not denying something shady went down there, but the facts are hardly known. Also, any unethical behavior probably implicates the Alliance more than Cerberus.

The better question would by why Toombs isn't credible in regards to his testimony, especially when his is supported by the scientist if you take them both. The 'why' is a open question (ranging from 'because we're evil' to 'Colony just got wiped out, need to see how marines fare NOW' rush rush), but that Cerberus was involved?

The Alliance being the ones to order Cerberus to be involved doesn't change what Cerberus did. It just gives context and a higher power to hold ultimately responsible as opposed to immediately responsible.

The thing is we don't know what happened. It could have been an accident, or it could have been completely Alliance sanctioned. Imagine this scenario: the Alliance sends the marines blindly into the Thresher Maw nest. The Alliance then tells Cerberus (who was kept in the dark) to pick up and test the bodies. This isn't likely, but I'm simply trying to say Cerberus cannot be linked with hard evidence, and the Alliance doesn't want it brought up (which means they're hiding something, of course).

What do you mean "as a matter of policy"? If you're saying that an organization outside of the law must be treated as criminal, I agree. If you are saying that an individual should hate all independent "criminal" groups regardless of purpose and action, I do not agree. Also, I'm fairly convinced Cerberus is either with the Alliance or the Alliance said to them, "we're going to declare you 'rogue'" *wink*.

I'm saying that Cerberus, routinely, does things that can deserve hate. Assassinations, drug running, weapons smuggling, fatal experiments. You can hate them for any of that.

Whether they are sanctioned by the Alliance doesn't really justify them. It just means that parts of the Alliance (the ones that know and condone) need to be brought to heel as well.

I agree with you, but I don't think we understand each other. I don't think something that deserves hate is necessarily wrong. I view hate as an emotional response to something we perceive as atrocious. I also agree Alliance sanction doesn't make it write; however, something performed as an organization that "went rogue" does not make it wrong either.

I agree, I just don't think this really implicates Cerberus. The Alliance probably wanted him dead just as much if not more. Kahoku was an uncompromising soldier who was killed due to one or either of these organizations trying to save face. Kahoku was a tragic character.

He was found dead in a Cerberus base. Even if some people in the Alliance helped point him out/track him down/take him in, I don't think you cancredibly argue that Cerberus didn't do it.

That Cerberus had reasonable reason to do it? A coverup isn't a personal grudge or a frivilous assassination of someone who doesn't agree with you. But a reasonable reason does not make a correct action.

Cerberus absolutely did this, but I believe the Alliance either approved or sanctioned this. Why? People in the Alliance knew Kahoku was investigating Cerberus, and Cerberus doesn't want the death of a Rear-Admiral on their hands (if they're actually rogue). They still obviously had some sort of relationship with the Alliance (mutually beneficial).

If the reason behind killing Kahoku was to protect information that could save human lives, I believe it was the correct action.

[JamieCOTC]

Casey Hudson said it best when he was interviewed for the Overlord pack. Big surprise, Cerberus f*cks up again. Okay, paraphrasing there, but you get the idea. I almost expect an Iron Man 2 subplot in ME3 w/ Shepard slowly dying from a Cerberus SNAFU in his/her rebuild.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 02 janvier 2011 - 02:58 .

[Sbri]

How man y different "research projects" need to go wrong before an organization should clue in that they need to keep better tabs on their teams? How many people are "expendable" or "regrettable losses"? Governments and organizations that have committed similar acts in the past century are justly reviled for them. It is one thing to run questionable experiments on willing volunteers. Ask Jack, Toombs, Aresh and Greyson how willing they were. I'm willing to bet there are no signed release forms for the colonists that were turned in to husks. While any single subject might be dismissed as "unreliable", to dismiss all of them reeks of willful blindness. And if say that these are acceptable losses when taken against what MIGHT be saved by such work? Ask the families for the Tuskege Airmen, the vistims of the Reich's medical experiments or those villagers in Central America think of that justification. Think of how you would feel if your mother, brother, daughter, husband, cousin or best friend were the unwilling victim of the kinds of acts that Cerberus permitted and/or condoned. Imagine that they are the ones suffering and then tell me that you think that ANY term but evil can be applied.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Casey Hudson said it best when he was interviewed for the Overlord pack. Big surprise, Cerberus f*cks up again. Okay, paraphrasing there, but you get the idea. I almost expect an Iron Man 2 subplot in ME3 w/ Shepard slowly dying from a Cerberus SNAFU in his/her rebuild.

I would agree. I think this is more of a problem of bad/cliched writing as as opposed to the writers trying to portray Cerberus as completely inept.

On the other hand, our sample of Cerberus in ME1 was very much biased. There was no "UNC: Check Out Ceberus' Safe, Productive Base" mission. By nature of Shepard's job (glorified janitor), he's only going to see sh*t.

[Nashiktal]

Already said that. Crappy writing, and poor execution. If those had been fixed, cerberus would actually be a pretty interesting and morally grey organization to work with.

[Sbri]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I would agree. I think this is more of a problem of bad/cliched writing as as opposed to the writers trying to portray Cerberus as completely inept.

On the other hand, our sample of Cerberus in ME1 was very much biased. There was no "UNC: Check Out Ceberus' Safe, Productive Base" mission. By nature of Shepard's job (glorified janitor), he's only going to see sh*t.

  The fact that a serial killer is a wonderful father and loving husband does NOT in any way mitigate that fact that he is a murderer.  The fact that a corporation makes a useful product doen NOT mean it is ok for them to poisen a towns water supply, causeing illnes and death.   In the same way, the fact that Cerberus has done some good work in no way mitigates the fact that they have committed atrocious acts of torture and murder.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Sbri wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I would agree. I think this is more of a problem of bad/cliched writing as as opposed to the writers trying to portray Cerberus as completely inept.

On the other hand, our sample of Cerberus in ME1 was very much biased. There was no "UNC: Check Out Ceberus' Safe, Productive Base" mission. By nature of Shepard's job (glorified janitor), he's only going to see sh*t.

  The fact that a serial killer is a wonderful father and loving husband does NOT in any way mitigate that fact that he is a murderer.  The fact that a corporation makes a useful product doen NOT mean it is ok for them to poisen a towns water supply, causeing illnes and death.   In the same way, the fact that Cerberus has done some good work in no way mitigates the fact that they have committed atrocious acts of torture and murder.

I would agree in part. Doing good things does not justify doing bad things. If an organization is to be condemned, however, because it has committed egregious acts, then every major government in history must be condemned. Cerberus has done some bad things, so has the Alliance, and god knows the Council has as well. They are still necessary, and I would say calling any of them "evil" is hyperbolic.

[Jagri]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Sbri wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I would agree. I think this is more of a problem of bad/cliched writing as as opposed to the writers trying to portray Cerberus as completely inept.

On the other hand, our sample of Cerberus in ME1 was very much biased. There was no "UNC: Check Out Ceberus' Safe, Productive Base" mission. By nature of Shepard's job (glorified janitor), he's only going to see sh*t.

  The fact that a serial killer is a wonderful father and loving husband does NOT in any way mitigate that fact that he is a murderer.  The fact that a corporation makes a useful product doen NOT mean it is ok for them to poisen a towns water supply, causeing illnes and death.   In the same way, the fact that Cerberus has done some good work in no way mitigates the fact that they have committed atrocious acts of torture and murder.

I would agree in part. Doing good things does not justify doing bad things. If an organization is to be condemned, however, because it has committed egregious acts, then every major government in history must be condemned. Cerberus has done some bad things, so has the Alliance, and god knows the Council has as well. They are still necessary, and I would say calling any of them "evil" is hyperbolic.

Council and the Alliance has one thing that Cerberus doesn't.... Accountability.

[Slayer299]

tvr321 wrote...
From my lengthy observations, it seems to me that this forum think that TIM and by extension, Cerberus is the root of all evil.

No, TIM and Cerb aren't the root of all evil but they aren't exactly the opposite either.

Firstly,it seems to me that you all have it carved into your brains that Cerberus is a racist, xenophobic, terrorist organisation. TIM is not xenophobic, he does not hate aliens, he says so himself. He has nothing against them. Proof being that he willingly recruits aliens through Shepard in order to stop the collectors.

As has been said by others, a man is judged by the people they associate with and TIM has an organization filled with xenophobic people. So there's your answer.

Cerberus's goal is simply "the advancement and preservation of humanity" Is it not just patriotism on a larger scale?
Seems like a quite noble goal to me, he's a straight talking, no BS, does what it says on the tin kind of guy.
He simply wants what's best for humanity, and is not going to bend over and take it. You don't get to the top with everyone else pulling you down.
I would sure as hell take Cerberus's backing over the council anyday.

Cerberus' stated goals are fine tbh. The problem is the insanely extreme methods they are willing to employ to achieve said goals. Blowing up a SA cruiser (MSV Anixara) to kill a Turian Hierarchy official, Chasca, Overlord, assassinating a Pope and SA Councilmen to name just a few specific events.

Secondly,ungrateful much? Cerberus bring you back to life, they rebuild the ******* Normandy, and they give you a crew, yet nobody seems to give them an ounce of credit. If it wasn't for them, the galaxy truly would be doomed. You sure as hell owe them a lot more than an "I'm far too good for you" attitude and a bunch of prejudgements.

My Shep didn't ask Cerberus to bring her back. Rebuilding the Normandy and crewing were necessary if Shep is going to be able to investigate the colony disappearances. The SR2 and crew weren't a gift for Shep. As for the prejudgements you claim, it has nothing to do with "i'm too good for you" and is "you're a terrorist, you've killed and tortured humans, why am I going to trust you? Also, why should I not judge Cerberus by their past and present actions, beyond the pointless "they brought you back so be greatful" comment.

Perhaps what first graved the anti-cerberus attitude into your minds was the way ME1 potrayed the group. We only saw a few research projects that had gone wrong. And that is simply due to the fact that Cerberus is a motor of innovation, they are willing to push the boundries when others are held back by bureaucracy. Action is what will beat the reapers, not sitting around talking about how everyone should be equal

A motor of innovation? So tell me, how is the torture and experimentation of humans, turning them into husks, almost unleasing the Rachni on the galaxy, another almost unleasing David to send the entire universe into a GIANT Dark Age action to help defeat the Reapers, seriously?

I think one of MIranda's lines is "Too many join us out of simple Xenophobia", Cerberus cannot stop their association with racism and xenophobia, it's how the "media" (I would imagine...) potray them, it's not necessarily who they truly are.

'See my first post, but to add to that. Perhaps if Cerberus stopped being so butt ugly STUPID with their experiments that actually might help them further down the road. Because presently that is *all* that people are going to associate with Cerberus for some time, especiallyh if they continue down the path of stupidity in humanity's name.

[Delta Green]

TIM himself I think is a really interesting character and represents FULL 100% RENEGADE human. Basically, someone who will do anything to accomplish his (or in his argument's case humanity's) goals. I don't think hes controlled by the reapers and is an egomaniac because that would be a terribly boring plot change by Bioware. He's just naturally self righteous, stubborn and actions all across the galaxy has vindicated his beliefs are right. I don't think sociopathic is the correct term for TIM. He's not very emotionally attached to people but he went above and beyond to protect humanity and the galaxy.



That said, his cons are very self evident. He regards everyone in his organization as expendable. And while TIM may admire Shep for what he's accomplished, he is still just a very important tool for Cerberus. His organization is also very clearly lacking competent officers and sub leaders. Miranda and Jacob at least have some form of morality,however everything from akuze to subject zero to ME:Retribution shows Cerberus is filled with sociopaths even if TIM himself isn't.



With all this said and done, considering the circumstances at the end of ME2, I think giving the base was the best thing to do. A single Reaper took out Citadel fleet and made a huge dent on the Alliance 5th fleet (despite having no shields) and can mindcontrol entire populations. Reengineered reaper tech gave the thranx cannon, EDI and the Reaper IFF.



Now considering the fact that nothing exists that can harm a fully shield reaper currently, it begs the imperative to take any concrete research opportunities. Cerberus is an unfortunate choice but it is necessary because they are the only organization that is willing to confront this issue and waste the manpower to do so. Shep can only work with what he has and unsubstantiated rumours of crazy volus billionaires hallucenating or a million year old living ship are not things to base the fate of the galaxy on.



And if it ever came to it that Cerberus will use humanity to dominate as opposed to protect... Well killing Shep only pissed him off.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Jagri wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I would agree in part. Doing good things does not justify doing bad things. If an organization is to be condemned, however, because it has committed egregious acts, then every major government in history must be condemned. Cerberus has done some bad things, so has the Alliance, and god knows the Council has as well. They are still necessary, and I would say calling any of them "evil" is hyperbolic.

Council and the Alliance has one thing that Cerberus doesn't.... Accountability.

Cerberus is still ultimately accountable to the Alliance. If they ever crossed the line, the Alliance would end them. I am fully convinced Cerberus is still either part of or intimately related with the Alliance.