465 réponses à ce sujet

[JamieCOTC]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

First, why does Shepard's resurrection not count?

Well here we go:
Made advancements in controlling Geth. Advancements that are unparalleled.
Developed EDI.
Lobbied for the creation of the Normandy SR1, and they actually built the SR2 by themselves.
Took down the SB and put a (potential) ally in charge.
The defeat of the Collectors (making safe all of the human Terminus colonies).

I don't count Shep's ressurection because it was a contrived plot device to force us to work with Cerberus. <_<

???

Yeah so uparelled that Shep had to go and clean their mess. Along with the whole controlling Geth not be necessary considering Legion.
Using the base for the SR1 not to mention they couldn't be even bothered to place top of the line pieces in the ship.
That was SHepard and Liara not Cerberus.
Once again Shepard. Not Cerberus.

Contrived or not, it's ME canon. You cannot throw it out simply because it is evidence against your argument.

Sure it was messy, but they had to start somewhere. Also, I don't trust Legion farther than I can throw him.

I don't know what you're trying to say about the Normandy.

Shepard used Cerberus crew, Cerberus intel, Cerberus supllies, etc. Not to mention the fact that Shepard reports to the Illusive Man. This was a Cerberus operation.

The defeat of the Collector's was a Cerberus operation. You cannot possibly argue otherwise.

I hate Cerberus, but I agree w/ you on all counts.  Why didn't I get a scene w/ my Paragon Shep dealing w/ the hypocrisy of “I don’t work for Cerbeus.”  I know it was in LotSB and I loved it, but it should have been in the main game. 

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Ryzaki wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Contrived or not, it's ME canon. You cannot throw it out simply because it is evidence against your argument.

Sure it was messy, but they had to start somewhere. Also, I don't trust Legion farther than I can throw him.

I don't know what you're trying to say about the Normandy.

Shepard used Cerberus crew, Cerberus intel, Cerberus supllies, etc. Not to mention the fact that Shepard reports to the Illusive Man. This was a Cerberus operation.

The defeat of the Collector's was a Cerberus operation. You cannot possibly argue otherwise.

Alright reviving Shepard was in their own interest. They wanted someone to get the job done. Someone other than thir own ineffectual workers. Also trying to say they get credit for SHepard's accomplishments is kind of like saying someone's mother saved all the lives their child did. It...just doesn't compute.

But it didn't go anywhere. As usual Cerberus screwed up and ended up with a massive explosion in their face that Shepard (as usual) had to clean up.

What Shepard manages to achieve isn't because of Cerberus but because of his/her own will. Also that colony never would've been endangered had Cerberus not drawn attention to it. Though yes they did a semi decent deed.

Really? So Shepard is a mindless puppet that follows Cerberus? I guess the blowing up of the base was a Cerbeus decision as well? 

My point about the Normandy was for all of Cerberus's so called "support" thy give SHepard subpar equipement. The only decent thing they gave him was EDI. (And let's hope that doesn't explode astronomically in ME3, not that it would be anything new).

When someone is a part of an organization, and they do something spectacular, it is a credit to the organization. Shepard does not have to be a mindless puppets for him to be a part of Cerberus missions. Do you want the platonic form of the idea of Cerberus to descend into our world to do something great so you can give them credit? Just like Cerberus is to blame when its members do horrible things, it should receive credit when its members do great things.

[Ryzaki]

Shepard is not part of Cerberus.

What about that is hard to comprehend?

At best he's a free agent on their payroll. He may answer to TIM but that seems far more of a formality then something he actually has to do. He has a momentary alliance with them. That is all.

He has no risk of being "fired" by TIM.

And while he gives them information by scanning technology in exchange for credits they are not giving him a steady income.

(If they were I wouldn't have to buy my own damn gas).  <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:19 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Ryzaki wrote...

Shepard is not part of Cerberus.

What about that is hard to comprehend?

In ME2 he is. Even if he does not like it. Even if he's planning on leaving them later on. During all that happens during ME2, Shepard is part of Cerberus. He answers to TIM. His XO is a Cerberus Operative. Almost all of his crew is Cerberus. His ship is owned by Cerberus. What more is necessary for Shepard to be "part of Cerberus"?

[JamieCOTC]

Got no problems w/ people liking Cerberus, but the way I roll play it, my Shep took her life back when she blew up the base.  She took her command back when she told TIM to f*ck off.  She'll fight and win without the base.  Why? 

A bad ending in this  economy?  Please ...

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:19 .

[Ryzaki]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Shepard is not part of Cerberus.

What about that is hard to comprehend?

In ME2 he is. Even if he does not like it. Even if he's planning on leaving them later on. During all that happens during ME2, Shepard is part of Cerberus. He answers to TIM. His XO is a Cerberus Operative. Almost all of his crew is Cerberus. His ship is owned by Cerberus. What more is necessary for Shepard to be "part of Cerberus"?

And...no.

Allies. You can serve on a ship, be surronded by a corporation, owned (the ship) by said corporation and have a XO (who you may or may not despise) that works in that corporation.

That doesn't make you a part of the corporation.

A decective from another agency momentarily working with the police to solve an investigation and using the police's resouraces doesn't make them a cop. Just makes them part of the investigation. That's all Shepard is.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:22 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Ryzaki wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

In ME2 he is. Even if he does not like it. Even if he's planning on leaving them later on. During all that happens during ME2, Shepard is part of Cerberus. He answers to TIM. His XO is a Cerberus Operative. Almost all of his crew is Cerberus. His ship is owned by Cerberus. What more is necessary for Shepard to be "part of Cerberus"?

And...no.

Allies. You can serve on a ship, be surronded by a corporation, owned (the ship) by said corporation and have a XO (who you may or may not despise) that works in that corporation.

That doesn't make you a part of the corporation.

A decective from another agency momentarily working with the police to solve an investigation and using the police's resouraces doesn't make them a cop. Just makes them part of the investigation. That's all Shepard is.

If it looks, smells, and sounds like a rat, it's a rat. You're ME2 Shepard is still a part of Cerberus no matter how vehemently he (or you) believes he's not.

[greatgeek]

Cerberus = rat

[Jagri]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

In ME2 he is. Even if he does not like it. Even if he's planning on leaving them later on. During all that happens during ME2, Shepard is part of Cerberus. He answers to TIM. His XO is a Cerberus Operative. Almost all of his crew is Cerberus. His ship is owned by Cerberus. What more is necessary for Shepard to be "part of Cerberus"?

And...no.

Allies. You can serve on a ship, be surronded by a corporation, owned (the ship) by said corporation and have a XO (who you may or may not despise) that works in that corporation.

That doesn't make you a part of the corporation.

A decective from another agency momentarily working with the police to solve an investigation and using the police's resouraces doesn't make them a cop. Just makes them part of the investigation. That's all Shepard is.

If it looks, smells, and sounds like a rat, it's a rat. You're ME2 Shepard is still a part of Cerberus no matter how vehemently he (or you) believes he's not.

So wait can we blame the factory exploding on Zaeed's loyalty mission on Cerberus cause Zaeed was working on its behalf?

Modifié par Jagri, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:28 .

[greatgeek]

double post

Modifié par greatgeek, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:28 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Jagri wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

If it looks, smells, and sounds like a rat, it's a rat. You're ME2 Shepard is still a part of Cerberus no matter how vehemently he (or you) believes he's not.

So wait can we blame the factory exploding on Zaeed's loyalty mission on Cerberus cause Zaeed was working on its behalf?

Yes. It was a Cerberus mission. They are ultimately accountable.

[Ryzaki]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...



If it looks, smells, and sounds like a rat, it's a rat. You're ME2 Shepard is still a part of Cerberus no matter how vehemently he (or you) believes he's not.

And you apparently don't understand the meaning of the "enemy of my enemy is a friend." 

ME2 Shepard is *not* a part of Cerberus no matter how vehemently you believe he is.

[greatgeek]

Zaeed took the mission before he was recruited.

[Jagri]

greatgeek wrote...

Zaeed took the mission before he was recruited.

Shepard took up the fight to defeat the Reapers before every having anything to do with Cerberus.

[Zulu_DFA]

Ryzaki wrote...

A decective from another agency momentarily working with the police to solve an investigation and using the police's resouraces doesn't make them a cop. Just makes them part of the investigation. That's all Shepard is.

If such a detective can't solve the case without the help and resources of the PD, he can't take all the credit for it. Sure, he can put it on his resume or auto-biography, but if his salary is $3000 but he spent $25000 of the PD's money to solve the case and was helped by a dozen $1000-salary emlployees of the PD (some of whom might have been shot by the bad guys), than it's the PD that solved the case with the help of your detective (even if he was leading it).

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:38 .

[JamieCOTC]

Ryzaki wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...



If it looks, smells, and sounds like a rat, it's a rat. You're ME2 Shepard is still a part of Cerberus no matter how vehemently he (or you) believes he's not.

And you apparently don't understand the meaning of the "enemy of my enemy is a friend." 

ME2 Shepard is *not* a part of Cerberus no matter how vehemently you believe he is.

I actually wish that had been said by either side. 

[nikki191]

why do i hate cerberus and TIM? First of all I dont think they are "evil" I think they truely believe the end justifies the means. But for every "look how well we did and how we have added to humanity" there is an unknown number of dangerous, inept failures that could of been catastrophic on a vast scale.. do i believe that cerberus could seriously help defeat the reapers ? yes.. do i believe that cerberus has the potential with one of their experiments to put the galaxy in danger? most definitely.



after playing mass effect 1 and 2. my overall view is that cerberus is inept at the very least and extremely dangerous

[Zulu_DFA]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Jagri wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

If it looks, smells, and sounds like a rat, it's a rat. You're ME2 Shepard is still a part of Cerberus no matter how vehemently he (or you) believes he's not.

So wait can we blame the factory exploding on Zaeed's loyalty mission on Cerberus cause Zaeed was working on its behalf?

Yes. It was a Cerberus mission. They are ultimately accountable.

True. But, hell, I must take this to the next Zaeed-bashing thread. "Zaeed is innocent like a baby, it's all Cerberus' fault!!!"

[Ryzaki]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

A decective from another agency momentarily working with the police to solve an investigation and using the police's resouraces doesn't make them a cop. Just makes them part of the investigation. That's all Shepard is.

If such a detective can't solve the case without the help and resources of the PD, he can't take all the credit for it. Sure, he can put it on his resume or auto-biography, but if his salary is $3000 but he spent $25000 of the PD's money to solve the case and was helped by a dozen $1000-salary emlployees of the PD (some of whom might have been shot by the bad guys), than it's the PD that solved the case with the help of your detective (even if he was leading it).

Except only 2 of your party members (that you can take into combat) actually work for Cerberus. Everyone else just maintains the ship.

Though I see your point. Cerberus did mostly end the collector threat with Shepard's help.

But then the same could be said for the ME1 plot with the Council and Alliance.

Your crew, ship and many of your resources (with the exception of weapons and armor) were due to the alliance and the Council granting you Spectre Status (you can't get the best weapons/armor without this status).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:44 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Yes. It was a Cerberus mission. They are ultimately accountable.

True. But, hell, I must take this to the next Zaeed-bashing thread. "Zaeed is innocent like a baby, it's all Cerberus' fault!!!"

Zaeed makes me happy. I half expected him to show me his "Bad Mother F***er" wallet that he stole from a museum exhibit honoring Samuel L. Jackson.

[Zulu_DFA]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Yes. It was a Cerberus mission. They are ultimately accountable.

True. But, hell, I must take this to the next Zaeed-bashing thread. "Zaeed is innocent like a baby, it's all Cerberus' fault!!!"

Zaeed makes me happy. I half expected him to show me his "Bad Mother F***er" wallet that he stole from a museum exhibit honoring Samuel L. Jackson.

Kasumi beat him to it while Zaeed was busy teaching Chuck Norris how to pee.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:51 .

[Jagri]

Hah well its agreed Zaeed is too bad a** to hold at fault here. Now if Zaeed was running Cerberus I would fellow him to hell and back...

Modifié par Jagri, 02 janvier 2011 - 04:56 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Yes. It was a Cerberus mission. They are ultimately accountable.

True. But, hell, I must take this to the next Zaeed-bashing thread. "Zaeed is innocent like a baby, it's all Cerberus' fault!!!"

Zaeed makes me happy. I half expected him to show me his "Bad Mother F***er" wallet that he stole from a museum exhibit honoring Samuel L. Jackson.

Kasumi beat him to it while Zaeed was busy teaching Chuck Norris how to pee.

She should be thankful Zaeed wasn't on that mission with her. Even with her cloaking, Zaeed probably would have been the only one to make it out alive.

[Zulu_DFA]

Ryzaki wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

A decective from another agency momentarily working with the police to solve an investigation and using the police's resouraces doesn't make them a cop. Just makes them part of the investigation. That's all Shepard is.

If such a detective can't solve the case without the help and resources of the PD, he can't take all the credit for it. Sure, he can put it on his resume or auto-biography, but if his salary is $3000 but he spent $25000 of the PD's money to solve the case and was helped by a dozen $1000-salary emlployees of the PD (some of whom might have been shot by the bad guys), than it's the PD that solved the case with the help of your detective (even if he was leading it).

Except only 2 of your party members (that you can take into combat) actually work for Cerberus. Everyone else just maintains the ship.

Though I see your point. Cerberus did mostly end the collector threat with Shepard's help.

Right, because aside trom the fact that all those non-Cerberus employees were put on your reccuitment list by TIM personally, an lot of very-Cerberus employeed stripped the IFF from the derelict Reaper, built the Normandy-2, tipped of Anderson so he could send the VS to Horizon with those big guns, and so on, etc.

Ryzaki wrote...

But then the same could be said for the ME1 plot with the Council and Alliance.

Your crew, ship and many of your resources (with the exception of weapons and armor) were due to the alliance and the Council granting you Spectre Status (you can't get the best weapons/armor without this status).

Sure. Shepard is a hero, but heroes don't win wars. Generals do. Heroes just do their part.

[Ryzaki]

And who exactly persuaded them to work with Shep with the exception of Kasumi and Zaeed?



Oh...wait Shep had to recruit them didn't he?



Yes they had the IFF and Shep then had to clean up the mess they left behind them. *shudders* All those damn husks.



Indeed. I wish Shep was more of a general and less of a emotionless Sue.