465 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I find myself inadvertently laughing as I read through the posts in here. Zulu + Phaedon + Xili = A combo of win!

See, Phaedon& Xili? There are two of you in the mix, but it's still a win!!!

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

The galaxy and humanity need Cerberus right now, and need them to have a free hand.

Since Cerberus can't be shut down without A) doing serious harm to the war effort, and 2) something just as bad starting back up, it would seem to me that reforming the existing organization is the preferable choice.

Needed, maybe. To resurrect and infodump for Shepard. But with the Shadow Broker's network on Shepard's side, she no longer needs Cerberus, especially not when the galaxy as a whole will be mobilizing against the Reapers.

Cerberus and the Shadow Broker operate parallel intel networks. Cerberus has some contacts and resources the SB doesn’t and vice versa.

[Sbri]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Should the the Cold War have been won by the United States?

  I'm not sure how your question follows. The pertinate point here is that the experiments were ethically terrible.  That the people who ran them have not been held accountable is criminally negligent.  That the US "won" that war in NO WAY justifies those actions. Xilizhra makes a great point when she asks if there is any proof that any of that work helped.  And in the end, it doesn't matter.  Even if something is learned, would you want to be the person infected with syfilis? Would you want to be the person with cancer caused by experiments on radiation's effects? Would any form of compensation justify your death by having a giant spike thrust through your abdomen while you're alive?

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
In other words: unhappy.

So, in your opinion dying equals to unhappiness? Because that's what happenned to the krogan.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Phaedon wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
In other words: unhappy.

So, in your opinion dying equals to unhappiness? Because that's what happenned to the krogan.

So I'm allowed to torture someone as long as I kill them afterwards so they're not unhappy anymore?

[Xilizhra]

Cerberus and the Shadow Broker operate parallel intel networks. Cerberus has some contacts and resources the SB doesn’t and vice versa.

If they somehow do make themselves useful, then I'll keep them around.

[General User]

"Gave me a ship, crew, intel, funding.  BROUGHT ME BACK FROM THE DEAD.  Sure. 

But what have you done for me lately?"

Cheers, OP!

Modifié par General User, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:18 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Sbri wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Should the the Cold War have been won by the United States?

  I'm not sure how your question follows. The pertinate point here is that the experiments were ethically terrible.  That the people who ran them have not been held accountable is criminally negligent.  That the US "won" that war in NO WAY justifies those actions.

So even if the experiments were that last drop that tilted the scales in favor of the "free world" in the struggle against communism, they still weren't worth it? It'd be better if they never happened, even if it meant that the US would have fallen apart in the 1990s and Britain become a "rogue state" in a world dominated by communists?

Sbri wrote...

Xilizhra makes a great point when she asks if there is any proof that any of that work helped.  And in the end, it doesn't matter.

Lol. So is it great? Or it doesn't matter?

Sbri wrote...

Even if something is learned, would you want to be the person infected with syfilis? Would you want to be the person with cancer caused by experiments on radiation's effects? Would any form of compensation justify your death by having a giant spike thrust through your abdomen while you're alive?

No. This has to be like a lottery. You know, like shipwreckers draw straws, when they decide who to eat next. Of course, it's always rigged, so that the really important guys hold out till the end, kinda like the tale Vigil told you on Ilos...

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:23 .

[Phaedon]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
So I'm allowed to torture someone as long as I kill them afterwards so they're not unhappy anymore?

I don't see how this is relevant to what I said. All that the krogan suffered was a lower birth rate. There was no torture or murder involved. In fact, hadn't it been that way, then there would have been torture and murder.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Phaedon wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
So I'm allowed to torture someone as long as I kill them afterwards so they're not unhappy anymore?

I don't see how this is relevant to what I said. All that the krogan suffered was a lower birth rate. There was no torture or murder involved. In fact, hadn't it been that way, then there would have been torture and murder.

What about the thousands of stillbirths? What about the psychological trauma of infertile females or females who lose their children? I find it absolutely ridiculous that you so adamantly defend the genophage (which I agree was necessary), while absolutely condemning Cerberus' actions.

[Xilizhra]

Probably because none of the things Cerberus has been condemned for have actually been helpful. Resurrecting Shepard and providing intel were both rather benign.

[Barquiel]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...


 I find it absolutely ridiculous that you so adamantly defend the genophage (which I agree was necessary), while absolutely condemning Cerberus' actions.

The genophage was necessary for galactic peace
Human dominance isn't necessary for galactic peace/stability

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
So I'm allowed to torture someone as long as I kill them afterwards so they're not unhappy anymore?

I don't see how this is relevant to what I said. All that the krogan suffered was a lower birth rate. There was no torture or murder involved. In fact, hadn't it been that way, then there would have been torture and murder.

Have you been to Tuchanka? Have you overheard the random talks? Have you seen the captured Urdnot scout? Have you sen a female that volunteered to be experimented upon?

I suppose you told every last one of those Krogans: "Hey buddy, chill out, it's not like Cerberus abducts you to murder and torture, right? You're OK, you have to realize that! Everything's just fine, relax!"

I don't say that I pity those Krogans. I say that what the council did to them was at a far larger scale than anything Cebrerus has done.

But yes, when the Reapers are defeated, and your precious Rachni queen eats your Sheaprd in the Epilogue of ME3, thus leaving Cerberus unopposed, they will continue their "evil experiments". In about ten to twenty years they'll come up with the means to distribute that enkefalosomething-agent, so that every Asari in the Galaxy gets exposed to it. Thus their entire race's biotics will be nerfed, and they'll lose ability to meld with other species, so that all the future Asari will be purebloods. Then and only then Cerberus will measure up to the Salarians and the Council at "war crimes".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:39 .

[Winterfly]

Barquiel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...


 I find it absolutely ridiculous that you so adamantly defend the genophage (which I agree was necessary), while absolutely condemning Cerberus' actions.

The genophage was necessary for galactic peace
Human dominance isn't necessary for galactic peace/stability

That justify it? 

Modifié par Winterfly, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:43 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Barquiel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...


 I find it absolutely ridiculous that you so adamantly defend the genophage (which I agree was necessary), while absolutely condemning Cerberus' actions.

The genophage was necessary for galactic peace
Human dominance isn't necessary for galactic peace/stability

So are you saying the purpose of the Council's actions is what justifies them?

[Barquiel]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

So are you saying the purpose of the Council's actions is what justifies them?

indeed

[Xilizhra]

So are you saying the purpose of the Council's actions is what justifies them?

The purpose and the necessity. As I've said, none of Cerberus' more ethically questionable actions have ever been necessary for anything, so far as we can tell.

[Zulu_DFA]

Barquiel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...


 I find it absolutely ridiculous that you so adamantly defend the genophage (which I agree was necessary), while absolutely condemning Cerberus' actions.

The genophage was necessary for galactic peace

And the Krogans don't need Galactic peace. They friggin' hate peace!!!

Barquiel wrote...

Human dominance isn't necessary for galactic peace/stability

And the Humans don't need stability. They friggin' hate stability!!!

Everyone has an unelianable right to impose own values upon others, so much as they have might to do it.

The Council wants peace? It pacifies the Krogans. The Krogans don't want peace. They go to war. But the Krogans suck, so the Council wins and keeps the Krogans pacified.

The same simple thing happens between the Council and the Alliance. The Alliance wants to open up new mass relays, the Council doesn't. Screw the Council says the Alliance and creates Cerberus. And the Council is going to suck this time, Reapers or not.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:48 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Xilizhra wrote...

So are you saying the purpose of the Council's actions is what justifies them?

The purpose and the necessity. As I've said, none of Cerberus' more ethically questionable actions have ever been necessary for anything, so far as we can tell.

What about experimenting with networking Geth so humanity would have some semblance of a chance if we went to all out war?

[General User]

Barquiel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

So are you saying the purpose of the Council's actions is what justifies them?

indeed

In other words: the ends justify the means.  Interesting.  I disagree.


There are somethings you just don't do no matter what your purpose is.

Modifié par General User, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:50 .

[Xilizhra]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So are you saying the purpose of the Council's actions is what justifies them?

The purpose and the necessity. As I've said, none of Cerberus' more ethically questionable actions have ever been necessary for anything, so far as we can tell.

What about experimenting with networking Geth so humanity would have some semblance of a chance if we went to all out war?

Only necessary if Shepard blunders her way into selling Legion to Cerberus. In other words, at least in my game, not.

[Zulu_DFA]

Xilizhra wrote...

So are you saying the purpose of the Council's actions is what justifies them?

The purpose and the necessity.

So the ends justify the means. Cool.

Xilizhra wrote...

As I've said, none of Cerberus' more ethically questionable actions have ever been necessary for anything, so far as we can tell.

Your inability to tell that doesn't mean Cerberus actions are not necessary. It only means that you're blind to this necessity.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Xilizhra wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So are you saying the purpose of the Council's actions is what justifies them?

The purpose and the necessity. As I've said, none of Cerberus' more ethically questionable actions have ever been necessary for anything, so far as we can tell.

What about experimenting with networking Geth so humanity would have some semblance of a chance if we went to all out war?

Only necessary if Shepard blunders her way into selling Legion to Cerberus. In other words, at least in my game, not.

Because trusting a random geth is smart. Also, are you saying befriending Legion eliminates all chance of humanity ever going to war with the geth? I hope you don't believe that.

[Phaedon]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
What about the thousands of stillbirths? What about the psychological trauma of infertile females or females who lose their children? I find it absolutely ridiculous that you so adamantly defend the genophage (which I agree was necessary), while absolutely condemning Cerberus' actions.

Stillbirths? I don't think that it works that way. In any case, I find it absolutely ridiculous how you attack something that prevented a war with millions of victims by talking about psychological traumas. While defending Cerberus.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Have you been to Tuchanka? Have you overheard the random talks? Have you seen the captured Urdnot scout? Have you sen a female that volunteered to be experimented upon?

I suppose you told every last one of those Krogans: "Hey buddy, chill out, it's not like Cerberus abducts you to murder and torture, right? You're OK, you have to realize that! Everything's just fine, relax!"

I don't say that I pity those Krogans. I say that what the council did to them was at a far larger scale than anything Cebrerus has done.

But yes, when the Reapers are defeated, and your precious Rachni queen eats your Sheaprd in the Epilogue of ME3, thus leaving Cerberus unopposed, they will continue their "evil experiments". In about ten to twenty years they'll come up with the means to distribute that enkefalosomething-agent, so that every Asari in the Galaxy gets exposed to it. Thus their entire race's biotics will be nerfed, and they'll lose ability to meld with other species, so that all the future Asari will be purebloods. Then and only then Cerberus will measure up to the Salarians and the Council at "war crimes".

You care about emotions now? How comfortable. Do you even know what war means? If you disregard the dead people, then you should know that the emotions would have been a lot worse.

[Xilizhra]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So are you saying the purpose of the Council's actions is what justifies them?

The purpose and the necessity. As I've said, none of Cerberus' more ethically questionable actions have ever been necessary for anything, so far as we can tell.

What about experimenting with networking Geth so humanity would have some semblance of a chance if we went to all out war?

Only necessary if Shepard blunders her way into selling Legion to Cerberus. In other words, at least in my game, not.

Because trusting a random geth is smart. Also, are you saying befriending Legion eliminates all chance of humanity ever going to war with the geth? I hope you don't believe that.

Because we shouldn't make damnably sure of the necessity of our actions before we start torturing people for possibly useless reasons.