405 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

My attempt to divert the topic from "I want evil options" to "I'd like to blow up the world for its own good instead of preserving it" failed miserably.

I blame Lionhead.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:57 .

[Dave of Canada]

Atakuma wrote...

Krueger wasn't a pedophile in the original movie, So it would be psycho murderer

Haven't watched it in forever, how come he had children with him then? I seem to recall him being burned with a kid or something.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:57 .

[Xallah]

Nope, i'm not. Saving the world, being the good hero is my favorite tale. Being special... I enjoy every game with such a story, even if it's not that original, because isn't it what we would all want to be? Well at least i would want to be that in real life )



But I agree, that parents dying, towns burning etc... and all other similar scenarios are getting boring. Need more original stuff, new approaches or settings. But the main plot can stay the way it is, heroic etc... )))

[Seb Hanlon]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

I imagine Hawke might be able to do some pretty evil things, but s/he isn't going to become Kirkwalls Champion, get to a high place in society or whatever and then just BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND for lolz. It just doesn't make sense.

If I'm the savior of a town, I get known as their Champion to the public.
If I side with the conquerors and conquer the town, I'm also known as the Champion but to the conquerors instead of the public.
If I side with no-one, wipe them both out and take my place at the top by pretending I tried my best to save the town but failed before stopping the conquerors, I'm the Champion to whoever is left and I'm at the top of my game.

ect.

Now, I'm not a writer, and I can't speak for our writing team -- but one of my favourite writer-types, John Rogers (the guy behind Leverage and the abortive Global Frequency pilot), points out that

"You don't really understand an antagonist until you understand why he's a protagonist in his own version of the world." (source)

Moustache-twirling, Snidely Whiplash evil-for-evil's-sake characters are fun for a while, but they don't really make sense -- it's rare, bordering on nonexistent, for someone to see themselves as the villain in their own story. Personally, for the PC to go about acting like a cartoon villain being eeeee-vuhl doesn't really make sense to me.

[SgtElias]

Am I tired of saving the world? No. No, I am not. I am a goody-two-shoes who actually enjoys saving orphanages and rescuing kittens from trees. I have never, ever rolled an evil character, and I doubt I ever will. Terribly dull of me, really. But extremely unlikely to change.

Now, revolution? Fantastic! Mostly. Is the regime we're overthrowing unjust, cruel, and outdated? Huzzah! If not, meh. I'll pass.

I know, I know. I have no depth.

Modifié par SgtElias, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:01 .

[Ryzaki]

Really? Huh. I guess KOTOR was a horrible game with a horrible plot when you went DS. ...So was Jade Empire for that matter.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:59 .

[iEthanol]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't like the Oblivion / Elder Scrolls / Fable evil where you're just a psychotic murderer who murders stuff for the sake of murdering.

Well, that makes two of us. When I say I don't want to save the world I don't mean I just want to go around killing people for no specific reason. If anything, what comes to mind is the Joker from the latest Batman flick. Psychotic, yes. Somewhat right, kinda.

Maybe become the bad guy for the greater good? Sure you killed thousands of folks and have taken over the world  with an iron fist--- but in return you saved millions. Murder and theft is gone because people are too afraid to break a law of yours because they know just how cruel you are.

[upsettingshorts]

The Sith don't consider themselves villains either. They're like super Social Darwinists. You remember, the whole Sith Code thing.

[Dave of Canada]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Moustache-twirling, Snidely Whiplash evil-for-evil's-sake characters are fun for a while, but they don't really make sense -- it's rare, bordering on nonexistent, for someone to see themselves as the villain in their own story. Personally, for the PC to go about acting like a cartoon villain being eeeee-vuhl doesn't really make sense to me.

It's why Loghain is my favorite character, he thinks what he's doing is righteous and good and that the end justifies the means. I'd just like to be a manipulative "evil" (aka, he's not evil in the dark side sense but he's exploiting every opportunity for self gain) character, something like Loghain who orchestrated everything in Origins to the death of the King and becoming Regent.

I'd like to be David Xanatos.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:02 .

[Leonia]

I can't speak for JE but.. that's one way to overly simplify KOTOR. There are two sides to the Force: Dark and Light. Not Good and Evil. Talk to a grey Jedi if you would like to understand that better.. like Jolee Bindo.

[Pwnsaur]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't like the Oblivion / Elder Scrolls / Fable evil where you're just a psychotic murderer who murders stuff for the sake of murdering.

Not to nit-pick here but Oblivion is part of The Elder Scrolls series..

Anyways.... I do agree with you. That's why I want a truly alluring reason to do bad things; such as great power and expansive wealth. These are pretty much the driving forces of 'evil' in every example in human history, I think it's time this was faithfully represented in games. (not just BW games) It wouldn't really require a whole lot of deviation from the standard formula to include an 'evil' path as these are nearly indistinguishable unless your perspective pans out and you see the big picture. How many current leaders around the world RIGHT NOW would be considered 'evil' by game standards? Probably a vast majority.... because it's easier to kill/cheat/bribe/blackmail/threaten/extort/suppress/oppress your way to the top than anything.

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:07 .

[Dave of Canada]

iEthanol wrote...

Maybe become the bad guy for the greater good? Sure you killed thousands of folks and have taken over the world  with an iron fist--- but in return you saved millions. Murder and theft is gone because people are too afraid to break a law of yours because they know just how cruel you are.

That's why I play Renegade in Mass Effect, it has a lot of problems finding it's identity but doing things people would consider horrendus for the greater good is awesome. That and usurping the government is pretty awesome too.

[Ryzaki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The Sith don't consider themselves villains either. They're like super Social Darwinists. You remember, the whole Sith Code thing.

I know but not wanting to save the world =/= blowing it to itty bitty pieces.

Honestly I just want an option for my PC to go "Screw you guys I'm outta
here." honestly just the option in DA to head for Orlais even if it
ended in a bad ending would've been marvelous.

[Dave of Canada]

Pwnsaur wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't like the Oblivion / Elder Scrolls / Fable evil where you're just a psychotic murderer who murders stuff for the sake of murdering.

Not to nit-pick here but Oblivion is part of The Elder Scrolls series..

Woops, I meant Fallout / Elder Scrolls. >.>

[White_Buffalo94]

YoziMaiden wrote...

I am hoping that Hawk might be able to conqueror Kirkwall over being elected it's sparkly champion of sweet and good things....

I don't care how I become champion, I just want to basically rape the chantry's hold over Thedas, or at least the Free Marches. Figuratively speaking? Maybe, maybe not

[iEthanol]

Dave of Canada wrote...

That's why I play Renegade in Mass Effect, it has a lot of problems finding it's identity but doing things people would consider horrendus for the greater good is awesome. That and usurping the government is pretty awesome too.

Ditto.

Modifié par iEthanol, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:06 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

No, I let the world die, but save the remnants :b

[SgtElias]

iEthanol wrote...

Maybe become the bad guy for the greater good? Sure you killed thousands of folks and have taken over the world with an iron fist--- but in return you saved millions. Murder and theftis gone because people are too afraid to break a law of yours because they know just how cruel you are.

Wow, how very Light of you. I've always been more a follower of L, myself. That whole thing is referancing Death Note, by the way.

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd like to be David Xanatos.

Fantastic referance, Ser.

Modifié par SgtElias, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:08 .

[Ryzaki]

leonia42 wrote...

I can't speak for JE but.. that's one way to overly simplify KOTOR. There are two sides to the Force: Dark and Light. Not Good and Evil. Talk to a grey Jedi if you would like to understand that better.. like Jolee Bindo.

Yeah that was good in all but that's not how it folded out in gameplay. In game trying to grey would always end up with you being one or the other at the end. The Jedi were holier than thou and the Sith were evil little cretins.

Granted the storyline is fine which is why I don't understand the whole not saving the world = bad storyline angle.

On the death note theme Raito > L

Though really Near only won because he was a little cheat. *resists urge to Death Note rant*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:10 .

[iEthanol]

SgtElias wrote...


Wow, how very Light of you. I've
always been more a follower of L, myself. That wholething is referancing
Death Note, by the way.

I think we
watched different shows. Light was a psychopath who wanted to become, and I quote, "God". He didn't give a crap about the world. I'm thinking more of the
Lelouch route. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd like to be David Xanatos.

Only if it's pre-Oberon kicking his butt Xanatos. After that he turned too soft.

Modifié par iEthanol, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:11 .

[marshalleck]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't like the Oblivion / Elder Scrolls / Fable evil where you're just a psychotic murderer who murders stuff for the sake of murdering.

To be fair, in TES games (NOT Fable, I don't know why you lumped them together, they aren't nearly the same) the player has near complete freedom to be whatever you want. If you want to be a psychotic murdering jerk who just does it for lulz, you can. It's not the only way to play the game though, and it's not the only way to be ruthless or "evil" and you're never forced to be unless for example you specifically take jobs as an assassin--and you should know what you're getting into if you do, otherwise you're just an idiot and that's not the game's fault. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:14 .

[Fishy]

Eli-da-Mage wrote...
That's like siding with an asteroid about to smash earth...it just doesn't work out for you...

[spam images removed]


Sorry i have to use that frog

[No, you don't.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 02 janvier 2011 - 06:45 .

[Dave of Canada]

Here's an example real quick of something I'd consider the "evil" alternative.

Kirkwall is under siege by the Qunari, oh noes!
You're given a choice, do you side with Kirkwall or the Qunari?

What I'd like to see as an "evil" third choice would be killing the leaders of Kirkwall and the Qunari through loads of manipulation, like pretending to work for both sides and wiping them both out. Let the people fight each other, whoever remains would probably be in shambles and you can swoop in and become an icon to the remnants of whoever won the war and it boosts your position in society.

For example, if Kirkwall successfully repelled the invasion and since the leaders are gone and you're a hero to the people, they address you as their new leader. Hawke successfully manipulated both sides so either way he'd win in the end and used it to rise to his newer more powerful rank.

Though that's far too complex for any game of today.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:16 .

[Heretical]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't like the Oblivion / Elder Scrolls / Fable evil where you're just a psychotic murderer who murders stuff for the sake of murdering.

Isn't this what evil tends to truly be? If a character is simply doing what they believe is right or necessary, can you call that evil? I think the meaning of evil is intentionally inflicting harm and causing suffering, simply because you want to and can while knowing it's wrong.

Also, why all the hate for Fable? Yeah its not very good, and 3 was a letdown, but I enjoyed them for what they were, not what they weren't.

[Dave of Canada]

marshalleck wrote...

To be fair, in TES games (NOT Fable, I don't know why you lumped them together, they aren't nearly the same) the player has near complete freedom to be whatever you want. If you want to be a psychotic murdering jerk who just does it for lulz, you can. It's not the only way to play the game though, and it's not the only way to be ruthless or "evil" and you're never forced to be unless for example you specifically take jobs as an assassin--and you should know what you're getting into if you do, otherwise you're just an idiot and that's not the game's fault.

In Oblivion, the only "evil" thing I was able to do was murder people. Thieve's Guild went pseudo-good in the ending, Dark Brotherhood was about being a murderer doing murdering for the sake of murder. All sidequests pretty much only had "good" alternatives.

I added Fable in there because Fable's evil path is murdering for the sake of murdering.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:18 .