405 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Here's an example real quick of something I'd consider the "evil" alternative.

Kirkwall is under siege by the Qunari, oh noes!
You're given a choice, do you side with Kirkwall or the Qunari?

What I'd like to see as an "evil" third choice would be killing the leaders of Kirkwall and the Qunari through loads of manipulation, like pretending to work for both sides and wiping them both out. Let the people fight each other, whoever remains would probably be in shambles and you can swoop in and become an icon to the remnants of whoever won the war and it boosts your position in society.

For example, if Kirkwall successfully repelled the invasion and since the leaders are gone and you're a hero to the people, they address you as their new leader. Hawke successfully manipulated both sides so either way he'd win in the end and used it to rise to his newer more powerful rank.

Though that's far too complex for any game of today.

Sounds quite a bit like rising through the ranks of the assassin's guild in Oblivion, to me. 

[request denied]

I am sorry if someone has already said this but the op sounds like Mr Incredible doesn`t he use that line ?

[marshalleck]

Dave of Canada wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

To be fair, in TES games (NOT Fable, I don't know why you lumped them together, they aren't nearly the same) the player has near complete freedom to be whatever you want. If you want to be a psychotic murdering jerk who just does it for lulz, you can. It's not the only way to play the game though, and it's not the only way to be ruthless or "evil" and you're never forced to be unless for example you specifically take jobs as an assassin--and you should know what you're getting into if you do, otherwise you're just an idiot and that's not the game's fault.

In Oblivion, the only "evil" thing I was able to do was murder people. Thieve's Guild went pseudo-good in the ending, Dark Brotherhood was about being a murderer doing murdering for the sake of murder. All sidequests pretty much only had "good" alternatives.

I added Fable in there because Fable's evil path is murdering for the sake of murdering.

Well Dark Brotherhood is the assassin's guild, and as I said--if you don't expect to be murdering people when joining the assassin's guild, you're just thick. That's what assassins do.

[Dave of Canada]

marshalleck wrote...

Sounds quite a bit like rising through the ranks of the assassin's guild in Oblivion, to me.

You have to murder an innocent to get invited, you have to murder people for rewards and then murder people because your superior tells you to do it. You're noit the master manipulator, the Lady of the Night (is that her name?) is. She used you to cull the incompetents of the Dark Brotherhood and make sure only the strongest remained.

That's the type of manipulator I love being.

It's not an Assassin's Guild, it's just killing people for teh lulz. A murderer isn't an assassin.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:23 .

[The Narrator]

request denied wrote...

I am sorry if someone has already said this but the op sounds like Mr Incredible doesn`t he use that line ?

lol...

i think your thinking of.

"Some times, i just wish... The world would just, stay saved you know?!"

[Fishy]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Here's an example real quick of something I'd consider the "evil" alternative.

Kirkwall is under siege by the Qunari, oh noes!
You're given a choice, do you side with Kirkwall or the Qunari?

What I'd like to see as an "evil" third choice would be killing the leaders of Kirkwall and the Qunari through loads of manipulation, like pretending to work for both sides and wiping them both out. Let the people fight each other, whoever remains would probably be in shambles and you can swoop in and become an icon to the remnants of whoever won the war and it boosts your position in society.

For example, if Kirkwall successfully repelled the invasion and since the leaders are gone and you're a hero to the people, they address you as their new leader. Hawke successfully manipulated both sides so either way he'd win in the end and used it to rise to his newer more powerful rank.

Though that's far too complex for any game of today.

So basicly a coup d'etat without planification.
Evil bad guy have plan to dominate. Playing the hero while trying  to conquer the world make no sense.

What's next anyway? Torture-Porn in video game?

Modifié par Suprez30, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:24 .

[Pwnsaur]

Heretical wrote...
Also, why all the hate for Fable? Yeah its not very good, and 3 was a letdown, but I enjoyed them for what they were, not what they weren't.

I think people would go easier on Fable if Peter Molyneux wouldn't hype the game to be so much more than it is, inevitably leading to people being disappointed in what it's not. Also, he needs to stop stripping every single semblance of an RPG from the game and assuring us that he's making it 'better.' He's not and it's not.

[marshalleck]

Dave of Canada wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Sounds quite a bit like rising through the ranks of the assassin's guild in Oblivion, to me.

You have to murder an innocent to get invited, you have to murder people for rewards and then murder people because your superior tells you to do it. You're noit the master manipulator, the Lady of the Night (is that her name?) is. She used you to cull the incompetents of the Dark Brotherhood and make sure only the strongest remained.

That's the type of manipulator I love being.

It's not an Assassin's Guild, it's just killing people for teh lulz. A murderer isn't an assassin.

It is an assassin's guild, each person you're assigned to kill has been contracted. I'm thinking you didn't pay much attention when you were playing the game. 

[Heretical]

Dave of Canada wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

To be fair, in TES games (NOT Fable, I don't know why you lumped them together, they aren't nearly the same) the player has near complete freedom to be whatever you want. If you want to be a psychotic murdering jerk who just does it for lulz, you can. It's not the only way to play the game though, and it's not the only way to be ruthless or "evil" and you're never forced to be unless for example you specifically take jobs as an assassin--and you should know what you're getting into if you do, otherwise you're just an idiot and that's not the game's fault.

In Oblivion, the only "evil" thing I was able to do was murder people. Thieve's Guild went pseudo-good in the ending, Dark Brotherhood was about being a murderer doing murdering for the sake of murder. All sidequests pretty much only had "good" alternatives.

I added Fable in there because Fable's evil path is murdering for the sake of murdering.

The Dark Brotherhood's reasons are more complex than that, and there were some large moral choices near the end of Fable 1 that hardly fit in that description.

[Dave of Canada]

Suprez30 wrote...

Playing the hero while trying  to conquer the world make no sense.

Oh?

Cousland can sort of do this. Due to the whole mess with the throne and Blight on their heels he managed to become King-Consort of Ferelden, Teryn of Gwaren, Commander of the Grey/Arl of Amarathine all while being known as the Hero fo Ferelden and disposing the threat to his rule (Alistair).

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:28 .

[White_Buffalo94]

Dave of Canada wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Sounds quite a bit like rising through the ranks of the assassin's guild in Oblivion, to me.

You have to murder an innocent to get invited, you have to murder people for rewards and then murder people because your superior tells you to do it. You're noit the master manipulator, the Lady of the Night (is that her name?) is. She used you to cull the incompetents of the Dark Brotherhood and make sure only the strongest remained.

That's the type of manipulator I love being.

It's not an Assassin's Guild, it's just killing people for teh lulz. A murderer isn't an assassin.

Night mother and Dread father, Sithis

[Pwnsaur]

Suprez30 wrote...
Playing the hero while trying  to conquer the world make no sense.

This is pretty much the guise of every oppressive leader since the dawn of time.

[Dave of Canada]

Heretical wrote...

and there were some large moral choices near the end of Fable 1 that hardly fit in that description.

Can't remember anything but the last choice but killing Rose and becoming the strongest force on the planet? That's pretty awesome.

[White_Buffalo94]

A murderer isn't an assassin.

Words of wisdom from Zevran

[request denied]

The Narrator wrote...

request denied wrote...

I am sorry if someone has already said this but the op sounds like Mr Incredible doesn`t he use that line ?

lol...

i think your thinking of.

"Some times, i just wish... The world would just, stay saved you know?!"

 That sounds like it .

[Seifz]

I don't know. Mask of the Betrayer had some pretty amazing options for evil characters and that worked out just fine. I think the BioWare folks are limiting themselves.

[Fishy]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

Playing the hero while trying  to conquer the world make no sense.

Oh?

Cousland can sort of do this. Due to the whole mess with the throne and Blight on their heels he managed to become King-Consort of Ferelden, Teryn of Gwaren, Commander of the Grey/Arl of Amarathine all while being known as the Hero fo Ferelden and disposing the threat to his rule (Alistair).

i think we're not talking about the same Evilness.

[iEthanol]

Heretical wrote...


The Dark Brotherhood's reasons are more complex than that, and there were some large moral choices near the end of Fable 1 that hardly fit in that description.

Well, to be honest, I absolutely loved the ending of TLC. The whole notion of murdering all your companions in order to reach Jack... epic. Don't even get me started on how awesome I thought the scene was of Jack whispering to the hero to put on the mask so that he'll become a god (while the good guy was telling him to destroy it). Very reminiscent of LOTR.

Anyway it ultimately led nowhere. The game Ended. I would much rather have explored a world as its iron fist ruler.

For once I would like a bad guy who is not generic and one dimensional. Maybe follow Hawke in his journey to become a hero but as time passes certain events lead him astray on his path. Considering just how much blood RPG characters spill--- surely there must be some psychological effect.

The Origin story of a tragic villain who started out as the typical RPG goody two shoes and outside forces led him to turn into what he once stood against?

Modifié par iEthanol, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:35 .

[SgtElias]

iEthanol wrote...

I think we watched different shows. Light was a psychopath who wanted to become, and I quote, "God". He didn't give a crap about the world. I'm thinking more of the
Lelouch route. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Wait wait wait, what? Really? I agree Light was a psychoapth, but I always thought the author was clear that his ultimate agenda was to create a "new world order" where crime is illiminated because everyone fears the reprecussions of committing it too much. I thought that sounded like what you were saying a lot. Kill thousands so that millions will live "better." Granted, he himself was going to preside over this new order "as a God," which shows that he had selfish motivations for doing what he did. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant about how you wanted to play.

Wow, never thought I'd be advocating for Light.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. I tried to tie it back in with the original discussion.

[marshalleck]

iEthanol wrote...

Heretical wrote...


The Dark Brotherhood's reasons are more complex than that, and there were some large moral choices near the end of Fable 1 that hardly fit in that description.

Well, to be honest, I absolutely loved the ending of TLC. The whole notion of murdering all your companions in order to reach Jack... epic. Don't even get me started on how awesome I thought the scene was of Jack whispering to the hero to put on the mask so that he'll become a god (while the good guy was telling him to destroy it). Very reminiscent of LOTR.

Anyway it ultimately led nowhere. The game Ended. I would much rather have explored a world as its iron fist ruler.

For once I would like a bad guy who is not generic and one dimensional. Maybe follow Hawke in his journey to become a hero but as time passes certain events lead him astray on his path. Considering just how much blood RPG characters spill--- surely there must be some psychological effect.

The Origin story of a tragic villain who started out as the typical RPG goody two shoes and outside forces led him to turn into what he once stood against?

I'd rather not play Anakin Skywalker.

[Dave of Canada]

marshalleck wrote...

It is an assassin's guild, each person you're assigned to kill has been contracted. I'm thinking you didn't pay much attention when you were playing the game. 

Assassins are often trained individuals, they kill contracts discretely and aren't trying for anything more than that. The Dark Brotherhood accepts you into their dark organization because you killed some random innocent, it doesn't even have to be anybody important and they only recruit you because you're a murderer. They don't care about your skills and abilities.

When somebody needs to die, their contractor go to the Night Mother (thanks for telling me the name, Whie) and she tells her people to send somebody to kill them. The Dark Brotherhood sends the people to kill them, they don't care about discretion or secrecy because they'll reward you even if you just barge in and kill everybody in your path. Though they'd prefer secrecy to not be found out.

You start off as nothing but a Thug and rise up through the ranks as you're competent at killing people. Stealth or not doesn't matter. In the end, you become the leader because turns out the Night Mother was manipulating everybody since the start to get the order nearly wiped out and rebuild stronger and you're just the most competent killer in the group.

When I want to be an "evil" character, I don't want to be the murderer that kills people for teh lulz. I want to be the person behind the scenes that is doing the manipulating of a murderer to kill all my political foes. The Night Mother's manipulations is something I want my character capable of accomplishing.

[Heretical]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Heretical wrote...

and there were some large moral choices near the end of Fable 1 that hardly fit in that description.

Can't remember anything but the last choice but killing Rose and becoming the strongest force on the planet? That's pretty awesome.

Not sure if this was an ending exclusive to The Lost Chapters, but after destroying Jack of Blades' body, there was a cinematic where the mask was whispering to you and promising you power if you just put it on. The player could choose to drop it in the lava or put it on which made them more powerful, and set morality, attractiveness, and fear to rock bottom.

[upsettingshorts]

Heh, that might have been the "plan" but at no point was Anakin Skywalker something other than a whiny megalomaniac.



*Redlettermedia ftw*

[iEthanol]

SgtElias wrote...

iEthanol wrote...

I think we watched different shows. Light was a psychopath who wanted to become, and I quote, "God". He didn't give a crap about the world. I'm thinking more of the
Lelouch route. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Wait wait wait, what? Really? I agree Light was a psychoapth, but I always thought the author was clear that his ultimate agenda was to create a "new world order" where crime is illiminated because everyone fears the reprecussions of committing it too much. I thought that sounded like what you were saying a lot. Kill thousands so that millions will live "better." Granted, he himself was going to preside over this new order "as a God," which shows that he had selfish motivations for doing what he did. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant about how you wanted to play.

Wow, never thought I'd be advocating for Light.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. I tried to tie it back in with the original discussion.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. He started out with the agenda "to make the world a better place", but as time went on he started killing innocents just so that he is not caught. He become the exact thing he originally stood against.

marshalleck wrote...


I'd rather not play Anakin Skywalker.

No idea who that is. But if it's a good game, i'll check it out.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

Also is Mask of the Betrayer really as good as Seifz says? (at least for evil choices). I just might get it on steam.

[Dave of Canada]

Heretical wrote...

Not sure if this was an ending exclusive to The Lost Chapters, but after destroying Jack of Blades' body, there was a cinematic where the mask was whispering to you and promising you power if you just put it on. The player could choose to drop it in the lava or put it on which made them more powerful, and set morality, attractiveness, and fear to rock bottom.

Mm.. yeah, that's The Lost Chapters. My game ended after Rose and the Sword of Aeons, I'd sort of need more context in that decision though before I could point out "Hey! That's the decision I'd do!".

Though I'd probably do the good decision there because putting on an evil talking mask nevers work well in the end.