220 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Girls need to start impulsively buying crap they don't need. Then things will change.

Like they don't do that already.

[Dave of Canada]

In Exile wrote...

Speaking of consistency, I wonder how DA2 will handle this. With 3 personality types, I hope we have a Hawke that sounds mentally stable.

Hawke: Aveline?
Aveline: Yes?
Hawke: Want some peanut buttercups?
Aveline: Yes, thank you.
*she reaches for one*
Hawke: GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY PEANUT BUTTERCUPS!
Aveline: Woah.
Hawke: Just kidding, ha ha ha!
Aveline: Okay...
*she reaches for one again*
*Hawke takes out the murderknife*

[soteria]

Dave of Canada wrote...

soteria wrote...

I can't.  Whatever that beat is in the background makes it too annoying to watch more than a few seconds.  Besides, if it's really that bad it doesn't need a parody; it should speak for itself.  Got another link?

Can't find the dialogue in general where it almost looks like FemShep is about to sexually assault Jacob but you can just watch the romance scene.

There's another parody here, might be easier to listen to.

I don't see what's so outstandingly terrible about those.  Awkward and borderline unbelievable, yes, but I thought all the romance scenes were like that to a degree.  Maybe I'll have to find a saved game and watch it myself or something.

[upsettingshorts]

soteria wrote...

I don't see what's so outstandingly terrible about those.  Awkward and borderline unbelievable, yes, but I thought all the romance scenes were like that to a degree.  Maybe I'll have to find a saved game and watch it myself or something.

Basically I view it like this - and I get that not everyone is going to agree:
Line - Meer - Hale
Paragon - Slightly nice - Talking to a puppy
Renegade - Kinda pissed - Off medication
Romantic - Vaguely flirty - Sexual harassment
Neutral - Dispassionate - Dispassionate

Here's the thing - I personally didn't really pick up on this - at least not in a way I could articulate beyond "I feel like something is off to me about Hale's delivery" until I played a cheat-supported Paragade playthrough (meaning I could select Paragon and Renegade choices at will in addition to right-sided ones).  So if you do want to try and see what In Exile and I are saying, doing that would probably be the best way to see where we're coming from - though there's no guarantee you'll end up agreeing. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 janvier 2011 - 10:54 .

[In Exile]

AlexXIV wrote...
What would have been wrong with making them different? It is a male one time and a female the other. They are supposed to be different, no? I don't know what exactly is the point of making them consistent. Of course they need to fit the same answers from the people they talk with, but that doesn't mean they need to sound exactly the same just a few pitches deeper.

 
You misunderstand. Not the male and female dialogue, but the renegade and paragon dialogue for MShep and FShep. They're coming from the same person. I don't happen to think it's a good idea to end up with Schizoid Shep if you vary top right vs bottom right choices.

[In Exile]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Hawke: Aveline?:happy:
Aveline: Yes?
Hawke: Want some peanut buttercups?
Aveline: Yes, thank you.
*she reaches for one*
Hawke: GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY PEANUT BUTTERCUPS!
Aveline: Woah.
Hawke: Just kidding, ha ha ha! :happy:
Aveline: Okay...
*she reaches for one again*
*Hawke takes out the murderknife*

We need an angry emoticon...

Modifié par In Exile, 02 janvier 2011 - 10:57 .

[Maria Caliban]

Dave of Canada wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Speaking of consistency, I wonder how DA2 will handle this. With 3 personality types, I hope we have a Hawke that sounds mentally stable.

Hawke: Aveline?
Aveline: Yes?
Hawke: Want some peanut buttercups?
Aveline: Yes, thank you.
*she reaches for one*
Hawke: GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY PEANUT BUTTERCUPS!
Aveline: Woah.
Hawke: Just kidding, ha ha ha!
Aveline: Okay...
*she reaches for one again*
*Hawke takes out the murderknife*

Hawke: Aveline?
Aveline: Yes?
Hawke: Want some peanut buttercups?
Aveline: You stabbed me last time, Hawke.
Hawke: I'm sorry about that. I don't know what came over me.
Aveline: It really hurts when you stab me.
Hawke: I promise I won't do it again. I got us a big bag of peanut buttercups to share!
Aveline: ....

[AlexXIV]

In Exile wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
What would have been wrong with making them different? It is a male one time and a female the other. They are supposed to be different, no? I don't know what exactly is the point of making them consistent. Of course they need to fit the same answers from the people they talk with, but that doesn't mean they need to sound exactly the same just a few pitches deeper.

 
You misunderstand. Not the male and female dialogue, but the renegade and paragon dialogue for MShep and FShep. They're coming from the same person. I don't happen to think it's a good idea to end up with Schizoid Shep if you vary top right vs bottom right choices.

Yeah well what I read so far is a bit disturbing imo. If I got it right then in DA2 if you switch between different dialogue styles you may start sounding weird. Not sure about that. For MaleShep I cannot really say much about specific dialogues since I mostly just skipped through.

Edit: There is an angry emoticon ...  ... it just looks more like a bit annoyed than actually angry.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 02 janvier 2011 - 11:04 .

[soteria]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Basically I view it like this - and I get that not everyone is going to agree:
Line - Meer - Hale
Paragon - Slightly nice - Talking to a puppy
Renegade - Kinda pissed - Off medication
Romantic - Vaguely flirty - Sexual harassment
Neutral - Dispassionate - Dispassionate

Here's the thing - I personally didn't really pick up on this - at least not in a way I could articulate beyond "I feel like something is off to me about Hale's delivery" until I played a cheat-supported Paragade playthrough (meaning I could select Paragon and Renegade choices at will in addition to right-sided ones).  So if you do want to try and see what In Exile and I are saying, doing that would probably be the best way to see where we're coming from - though there's no guarantee you'll end up agreeing. 

So you're saying if I thought Meer's paragon delivery was too sacharine, I *really* won't like Hale's.  Got it. 

I typically didn't do abrupt shifts from paragon to renegade in a conversation, so I didn't see what you're talking about.  I can see how you'd think Meer is better for doing that, since I tended to mix up his dialogue a little more, and for him the renegade choices typically seemed like the outburst of a guy who finally lost patience.  He did all right in some parts.  Thing is, I *loved* Hale's renegade delivery in parts like the parting speech after Tali's trial or the confrontation with the annoying reporter.  In comparison, Meer seemed too meek.

[tmp7704]

soteria wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

In Exile wrote...

I'm embelishing a little, but I feel the same way Shorts does and it bothers me that Meer gets so very little credit for what he tries to do.

I don't feel the need to give him credit for what I consider a failure.

And suddenly this started playing in my head.

I don't get the connection, but I still listened to the whole thing because Ennio Morricone is the man.

Maybe she considers The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly a failure.  It's pretty unthinkable that she could consider ANY Clint Eastwood movie a failure, but you never know.

I read that as a comment along the lines of "two opinions enter, one opinion leaves".

I shall roll around pretending to be tumbleweed now, to complete the duel scene.

[Maria Caliban]

tmp7704 wrote...

I read that as a comment along the lines of "two opinions enter, one opinion leaves".

I shall roll around pretending to be tumbleweed now, to complete the duel scene.

Good man.

[Sith Grey Warden]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well only thing that is argueably about female Shepard having it worse is that she gets 3 alien LIs in ME2. Jacob, Garrus and Thane.

Wait, Jacob's an alien? Looks pretty human to me.

[AlexXIV]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well only thing that is argueably about female Shepard having it worse is that she gets 3 alien LIs in ME2. Jacob, Garrus and Thane.

Wait, Jacob's an alien? Looks pretty human to me.

He is a human looking alien in disguise, you know like in 'Men in Black'.

[legbamel]

AlexXIV wrote...

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Well only thing that is argueably about female Shepard having it worse is that she gets 3 alien LIs in ME2. Jacob, Garrus and Thane.

Wait, Jacob's an alien? Looks pretty human to me.

He is a human looking alien in disguise, you know like in 'Men in Black'.

No real human has a torso that long and only an alien could induce FemShep to act like a cat in heat the very first time she talks to him.  Although I suppose being in the armory might have had something to do with it--all of those beautiful guns lying about and all.  What Shep wouldn't get a little frisky in there?

[Addai]

Dave of Canada wrote...

soteria wrote...

I guess whatever floats your boat. When I played male paragon, his delivery of everything was just so bland I was constantly bored. Maybe renegade just has better lines in the first place, but I enjoyed the female playthrough so much more. I never romanced Jacob and can't comment, and I did pick a number of neutral choices in ME2, so maybe that affects my opinion on her?

Watch this.

I hated the way femShep interacted with Jacob, but I could put up any male Shepard romance video and the VO is cringingly, eye-gougingly bad.  Female Shepard is at least not sleep-inducing and didn't think she was over the top on renegade.  If she had been screechy, that would have been "off her medication."  As it is, she sounded tough either way.  Even when she was trying to sound bored, her delivery was at least interesting.  Example- "I'm going to dance next to you.  If you want to think we're dancing together, you can."  She said it deadpan but I still LOL'ed.  Meer sounds like he's reading off a cue card.

Of course, I think it's all an advertisement for what's wrong with player VO.  From the few clips of Hawke we've heard, he sounds pretty bland, too.  But we'll have to wait to get a listen to female Hawke to see if it's going to be any better.

[Archereon]

Eleinehmm wrote...

Victia wrote...

I always just refute to them as shep or hawke, my Canon is female but will play as males as well. My husband is the same as preference is female hero. The only exception being (generally in games) mass effect- as let's face it femshep is ugly pretty much no matter what you do and she acts very masculine, its just not of fun as playing a feminine female!
Maybe its the buffy fan coming out in me- that a female protagonist should be femanine and kick-ass but there is something not right about femshep. Femhawke of the other hand looks adorable, just hope her dialogues are different enought from males that she sounds like a different sex/person and not a man in a woman's body!

Well that's your opinion - I would like to vote for non “femine” female option and definitely would not like forced girly-girly options for females.
Bioware has been pretty good with handling genders so far and I hope it stays the same.

On the other hand, I'd hope to avoid lines heavily favoring a male player, like many, many lines in Mass Effect.

On a side note, I'd also like to avoid uncompensated male fanservice-Miranda-*cough cough* (no, Jacob's abs do not count as compensation, you have to endure The Priiiiizeeee to get that prize.), and badly placed ("And that's why I had to kindnap my baby sister Shepard...Shepard?  Shepard *staring at her assets*: Huh?)

[Atakuma]

Archereon wrote...
On a side note, I'd also like to avoid uncompensated male fanservice-Miranda-*cough cough* (no, Jacob's abs do not count as compensation, you have to endure The Priiiiizeeee to get that prize.), and badly placed ("And that's why I had to kindnap my baby sister Shepard...Shepard?  Shepard *staring at her assets*: Huh?)

I too hope the boner cam does not make a return in DA2

[Auroras]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

That's not really so much due to the character. Since English has no gender-neutral pronoun for referring to people, the default tends towards "he" because, historically, men were the ones writing everything, and now it's just convention.

Many/most European (or European based) languages = sexist. 

[JamieCOTC]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

soteria wrote...

I don't see what's so outstandingly terrible about those.  Awkward and borderline unbelievable, yes, but I thought all the romance scenes were like that to a degree.  Maybe I'll have to find a saved game and watch it myself or something.

Basically I view it like this - and I get that not everyone is going to agree:
Line - Meer - Hale
Paragon - Slightly nice - Talking to a puppy
Renegade - Kinda pissed - Off medication
Romantic - Vaguely flirty - Sexual harassment
Neutral - Dispassionate - Dispassionate

Here's the thing - I personally didn't really pick up on this - at least not in a way I could articulate beyond "I feel like something is off to me about Hale's delivery" until I played a cheat-supported Paragade playthrough (meaning I could select Paragon and Renegade choices at will in addition to right-sided ones).  So if you do want to try and see what In Exile and I are saying, doing that would probably be the best way to see where we're coming from - though there's no guarantee you'll end up agreeing. 

Played femShep several times, both Paragon and Renegade.  Facepalmed w/ the Jacob romance.  Bad writing can't be saved period.  Cringed at a couple of Hale lines, expecially the one about "merc blood."  But overall, I prefer Hale to Meer.  I actually have a great respect for Meer's other work, but his dudeShep just didn't click w/ me at all.  Metal fork on a chalkboard.  Some people say the same thing about her.  It's all good.  Ear of the beholder.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 03 janvier 2011 - 12:06 .

[JamieCOTC]

double post

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 03 janvier 2011 - 12:05 .

[tmp7704]

Archereon wrote...

On the other hand, I'd hope to avoid lines heavily favoring a male player, like many, many lines in Mass Effect.

Personally i found it one of the things which made female Shepard interesting -- it makes her look like a very much a no-nonsense character who transcends the traditional gender perceptions and expectations. She takes these lines who are supposedly favouring the male player and simply makes them very naturally hers, without any pointless flaunt.

[Avilia]

tmp7704 wrote...

Archereon wrote...

On the other hand, I'd hope to avoid lines heavily favoring a male player, like many, many lines in Mass Effect.

Personally i found it one of the things which made female Shepard interesting -- it makes her look like a very much a no-nonsense character who transcends the traditional gender perceptions and expectations. She takes these lines who are supposedly favouring the male player and simply makes them very naturally hers, without any pointless flaunt.

I don't usually do this but...this, so much this.  I loved Hale's delivery and the lines for this very reason.

[Ramus Quaritch]

The problem is that you'll get the marketing department that releases official trailers and cinematic videos that emphasize that the default Shepard is "The" Shepard. The first Mass Effect did not do that nearly as much as the second one did when it was being advertised. The second one even had an interview-style cinematic and the huge "Dirty Dozen" cinematic with the default Shepard. There were little to no FemShep videos. As I recall, a fan remade the launch trailer with a FemShep and it was really good too.



But the advertising for Dragon Age: Origins and the first Mass Effect focused on "many choices lie ahead" or "make your own story" aspects of the game. They emphasized the player's ability to customize their playthrough. I'm worried that the male Hawke from the Destiny trailer will be shown in every promotional item and that the female Hawke will be shown in little to nothing. I don't see how recognizing in an official video that you can play as a female is a bad thing.

Modifié par Ramus Quaritch, 03 janvier 2011 - 12:23 .

[Adhin]

AlexXIV wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Girls need to start impulsively buying crap they don't need. Then things will change.

Like they don't do that already.

See they do, the problem is they impulsively buy crap they don't need - that arn't GAMES. They need to start impulsively buying games they don't need.

[AlexXIV]

Adhin wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Girls need to start impulsively buying crap they don't need. Then things will change.

Like they don't do that already.

See they do, the problem is they impulsively buy crap they don't need - that arn't GAMES. They need to start impulsively buying crap games they don't need.