220 réponses à ce sujet

[Queen Nothing]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

The problem is that you'll get the marketing department that releases official trailers and cinematic videos that emphasize that the default Shepard is "The" Shepard. The first Mass Effect did not do that nearly as much as the second one did when it was being advertised. The second one even had an interview-style cinematic and the huge "Dirty Dozen" cinematic with the default Shepard. There were little to no FemShep videos. As I recall, a fan remade the launch trailer with a FemShep and it was really good too.



But the advertising for Dragon Age: Origins and the first Mass Effect focused on "many choices lie ahead" or "make your own story" aspects of the game. They emphasized the player's ability to customize their playthrough. I'm worried that the male Hawke from the Destiny trailer will be shown in every promotional item and that the female Hawke will be shown in little to nothing. I don't see how recognizing in an official video that you can play as a female is a bad thing.

Shepard has always been advertised as male and it's looking like the same thing is going to happen to Hawke. I would like to know the reasoning behind this but it probably has something to do with them trying to market to the largest demographic of gamers, which are males. Oh well, maybe one day someone will advertise to us female gamers.

[Victia]

Lol I am a girl and I impulse buy games all the time lol! I have a fine collection of crap as well as awesomeness

[Tinxa]

I understand marketing to men and having one face for the game, but sometimes it's almost like they're hiding the option to play as female.



I didn't closely follow ME because it was being made for xbox only but became interested when I heard they were porting it for the PC. I looked at the videos and my first impression was you could only be male Shephard which almost put me off. Fortunately I found the faq and read it, There I learned that being a female character was possible so I later bought the game.



I think it definitely wouldn't hurt to make it just a little more obvious you can change the gender of the main character. Right now it's the 10th question in the faq amid other info about classes, voiced protagonist and such with no femHawke screenshots or wallpaper.

[LadyJaneGrey]

As long as the game itself treats both genders equally, I have a hard time getting excited about whether the advertising and marketing features both a guy/gal Shepard, a guy/gal Warden, or a guy/gal Hawke in equal measure.  Dragon Age and Mass Effect give each character good "gender-specific" content and that's what really matters to me.

And, let's be honest, the more main-stream marketing seems to push the "Grittier!  Bloodier!  Sexier!" angle pretty hard.  I'd rather femshep or Lady Hawke have NO mainstream marketing than to have her morph into a hyper-sexualized character in an attempt to catch this audience's attention.

[SteveGarbage]

Well this isn't the first time I've read this type of thread and it probably won't be the last.

There's probably some kind of marketing reason for it, but I'm not a marketer so I won't hazard a guess at that.

If I had to take a shot at it, however, I'd say there's probably something to the issue of not wanting to confuse potential customers by featuring two different characters. Since marketing material doesn't really give you the option to explain "Oh by the way you can play male or female" in a pictoral add or a short minute trailer, I suppose you count on the consumer to look into it if they're really interested in it.

Having one face of the franchise, so to say, it gives you a unified front to promote the product on. That's just my guess though.

The majority market for this game is likely male - although BioWare, I know has a pretty large following of female fans - hence why you get male promotional Shepards and Hawkes and even a Warden from Origins. You make it relatable to the highest target market, I guess.

However, since this has come up probably 1,000 times before, it makes you wonder why games that have gender options and other customization don't market that. I mean it could be as effective as just taking 10-15 seconds in some kind of trailer to say "Fully customizable main character" and then flash a bunch of different created characters across the screen to show the kind of range of hero you could create might really help build potential fans.

[Archereon]

tmp7704 wrote...

Archereon wrote...

On the other hand, I'd hope to avoid lines heavily favoring a male player, like many, many lines in Mass Effect.

Personally i found it one of the things which made female Shepard interesting -- it makes her look like a very much a no-nonsense character who transcends the traditional gender perceptions and expectations. She takes these lines who are supposedly favouring the male player and simply makes them very naturally hers, without any pointless flaunt.

Maybe its just because Shepard is advertised as male and we hear Meer's delivery well before Hale's, but many of the lines in Mass Effect just feel awkward for a female Shepard.  While Hale's excellent performance saves the day for the most part, there's the occasional line that just sounds so...out of place...

If Shepard's genders were given slightly different speech patterns (just a few tweaks), particularly in trailer material, it do wonders for FemShep's individuality.  (its not really sexism, more that most people think of Sheploo when they think of Commander Shepard, and Meer's voice when they think of Shepard's lines.)

Hopefully that can be avoided with DA2 though.  If we get to her and see a lot of Marian, I don't think there'll be a problem.

[mopotter]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Doesn't listen to Mecha, he's always getting hung up about girl gamers. Pretend he's like that one troll awhile back with the images. He'll go away if you ignore him.

lol this isnt about chest anymore

and I am really asking why should any of the female gamers care. You want to be noticed in the gaming industry? or you dont?

True answer, - I want more games where I can play female or male, like BioWare Games, Fall Out series and Elder Scrolls.  If we don't say anything it will never happen.  As it is, it will probably be after I'm long dead before it happens.  

[mopotter]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

XFemShepX wrote...

 It's just a shame that they don't market ME with FemShep because Jennifer Hale makes Mark Meer sound like he's reading a kindergarten book.

Why does every discussion about female protagonists always result in someone unfairly - and inaccurately - slamming Mark Meer?  

I liked his voice.  I did like Jennifer Hale a bit more because I could relate to it, but I like listening to Mark Meer and for me he is my male Shepard's voice.  I would not mind at all if he did a LI in a future game.  

[mopotter]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Maybe it is because I played FemShep first, but it always felt like MaleShep is a bad copy.

*shrug*

I thought Hale did a better job than Meer in ME1, and Meer did a better job than Hale in ME2.  

I agree with you on this.  There were times in ME2 that I wondered if Tim had not put that chip in her brain after all. Some of the things they had her say and do just did not mesh with the way Shepard acted in ME1 when you did the paragon choices, and Jacob is just one of them.  

[mopotter]

Victia wrote...

Lol I am a girl and I impulse buy games all the time lol! I have a fine collection of crap as well as awesomeness

So do I.  One of the guys at game stop recognize me when I come in.  Of course I'm guessing they don't have that many older ladies who know what they want and know who they are talking about when they mention Master Chief.

My husband wants me to buy a frilly blouse and I want to buy a new game.  I win.

[Archereon]

You know, I'm honestly going to play Hawke as a woman first, just in an effort to avoid thinking of Hawke as a "he" all the time.

[Jowan642]

i agree completly, one of the things that made dragon age orgins was so great was how many people you could create and come up with like a lesiban dwarf noble and how you never make the same character

[Matchy Pointy]

[quote]Lilacs wrote...

[quote]Tinxa wrote...


"... I think it definitely wouldn't hurt to make it just a little more obvious you can change the gender of the main character. Right now it's the 10th question in the faq amid other info about classes, [if the] voiced protagonist [was announced]  ...[and if we had more] femHawke screenshots or [one or two] wallpaper [s].[/quote]



It would be a delicious treat, indeed.  As I stated previously on this thread, there are still ample opportunities.   We can only hope and be patient.
[/quote]

I would love marketing like that, but I doubt it will, judging from Mass Effect, I don't think we ever saw any official footage of female Shepard there, they want one offical face to carry the game.

[arafinwe_ingalaure]

Publicity with FemHawke would be interesting for a change.

[Hathur]

JediMB wrote...

Well, hey, at least FemHawke has a decent default face morph.

Can't really say the same about FemShep, when comparing it to MaleShep's.

Slightly OT.. but this was because male shep's face was a digital scan of an actual person (model called Vanderloo or something)... whereas femshep default face was generated in-game using the engine rather than a scan of an actual female.

[JediMB]

Hathur wrote...

JediMB wrote...

Well, hey, at least FemHawke has a decent default face morph.

Can't really say the same about FemShep, when comparing it to MaleShep's.

Slightly OT.. but this was because male shep's face was a digital scan of an actual person (model called Vanderloo or something)... whereas femshep default face was generated in-game using the engine rather than a scan of an actual female.

Yeah, I know. That's exactly what I meant.

[Mrs. Bonebright]

I think the issue of advertising games with female leads has become more of a popular subject since rumor leaked that Activision was actively against featuring women as main characters for fear that they wouldn't sell. 

The thing about games like the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series that make the issue somewhat complicated is the fact that the main characters have more of a personal involvment with the story than most customizable games.  Playing ME or DA is not only a gaming experience, but the interpersonal relations you build between characters adds an underlying cinematic sense of storytelling.  If Mass Effect had advertised with a non-specific lead, the impact of the story would have been lost in the trailers leading up to its release.  For example, the Fable series (though widely popular with its fans) loses some of its sway in advertising because the narrative is almost secondary to the diversity of gameplay.  At least, I think so.
I think that it would be great to see some highly rendered cinematics with the female Hawke.  True, most gamers are generally dudes, but I would be satisfied if for every five ads featuring a male lead there was one featuring a female.

The point is probably moot, though.  I, personally, am buying the damn games either way.

Modifié par Mrs. Bonebright, 03 janvier 2011 - 05:23 .

[kartupelis]

at the creator of the poll- just because you said the default version of female hawke hasnt been chosen as the main pratagonist of the games advertising campaign and it should be rectified, doesnt mean that bioware is going to say- OH MY GAAAAD! we have a huuuuge mistake! quick! tear the posters down, crash the games site - replace everything!!!!! for that CGI trailer were just gonna use a stick-on face of femHawke on maleHawke. it will have to do. we havent got much time to correct our mistake!!!! MOOOOOVE people!!!!

just stop whining and wait for the game to come out. its way too late for your backass ideas.

Modifié par kartupelis, 03 janvier 2011 - 09:02 .

[SirGladiator]

Oh, its never too late for mistakes to be corrected . Of course the reason they arent correcting it is the same reason they made it in the first place, simple ignorance. The idea that somehow the average gamer would be more inclined to buy a game that has a bland, generic male lead instead of an attractive female lead is comicly absurd, and yet no doubt some in Bioware's Marketing Department make that very assumption. Of course we've already seen the result of ME's major 'male-lead' marketing, significant under-performance as many folks, like so many of the folks who already commented in this thread, simply assumed you could only play as a male character and never bought the game.



The Bioware Marketing folks have already stated that they feel folks will become 'confused' if they were to promote both Hawkes and clearly let fans know that you can play as a male or female character, but reality is that the average gamer isn't less intelligent than the Bioware Marketing folks, its the other way around. Once they figure out that most players like the option of playing as a male or female character, and look for games to buy that give them that option, something that is obvious to most people except them, everybody will be much happier .

[AuraofMana]

Okay, this is a really stupid issue. In the same light, I can argue that Shepard and Hawke are both Caucasian. Because I am afraid people will keep referring to them as Caucasians, Bioware should also make a trailer for every other ethnicities out there. This way, everyone feels balanced.

I also don't see anyone complaining about the Warden that is shown in any DA:O + Awakening trailers as being the male Human. If you are going to complain about one go ahead and complain about all of them.

Stupid argument is stupid.

Modifié par AuraofMana, 03 janvier 2011 - 02:24 .

[Celtic Latino]

Considering that FemHawke has gotten her own official screenshots, I don't think so. A lot of people like her, and many previewers actually speak of her, sometimes more than they do of ManHawke.

And, not to sound bad, but even if the main character is generally promoted as male, I do think female (NPC) characters get the preferential treatment in most bioware games. In Origins, your most useful party members were Wynne, Morrigan, and Leliana, especially if you needed a rogue or mages. The two DLC packs released, one is Witch Hunt (Morrigan) and the other is Leliana's Song. In Mass Effect 2 Liara has a whole DLC pack geared towards her with the Shadow Broker and Kasumi has her own DLC as well. Origins had an extra DLC character that was female (Shale) with her own questline. Plus, the most useful party members in ME tend to be female (Ashley, Liara, Tali, Miranda, Kasumi). So I think female NPCs are promoted far more than male ones, so in a sense it evens things out.

However, I do think that boxart should showcase both a male and female Hawke just because. And yes, I definitely think Sheploo has been OVER-promoted, I personally never use the default Shepard, even for my male characters because I think he's been shoved in our faces too many times as THE Shepard rather than just a boxart cover.

I'm a male gamer and I play both male and female characters in almost all games. I take a character concept (its the writer in me) and go with it. Gender is only one aspect when I play a character, its more of the whole concept that counts. And I think Bioware's done a great job of allowing male and female characters to be played without alienating gamers, especially since Bioware does have a large female fanbase.  

Just my own personal thoughts here.

[upsettingshorts]

SirGladiator wrote...

 The idea that somehow the average gamer would be more inclined to buy a game that has a bland, generic male lead instead of an attractive female lead is comicly absurd, and yet no doubt some in Bioware's Marketing Department make that very assumption.

The idea that the male lead is bland and generic and the "attractive" female lead wouldn't also be bland and generic is comically biased.

[Eternal Dust]

Celtic Latino wrote...

And, not to sound bad, but even if the main character is generally promoted as male, I do think female (NPC) characters get the preferential treatment in most bioware games.

That's because most of them are LIs for the male PC...

[maselphie]

octoberfire wrote...

Celtic Latino wrote...

And, not to sound bad, but even if the main character is generally promoted as male, I do think female (NPC) characters get the preferential treatment in most bioware games.

That's because most of them are LIs for the male PC...

Yeah, if the situation was reversed, you can bet your bottom dollar it'd just be a slew of hunky men in advertising. With no shirts.

Modifié par maselphie, 03 janvier 2011 - 07:33 .