141 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Coincidently, the Suicide Mission was even less effective because the choices were punishingly obvious. Bioware's own statistics provide evidence to that when only 13% of the players lost a single squad mate. I guarantee a large amount, if not the vast majority, lost the person they disliked because they disliked them.

I might be wrong but I thought that the article you mentioned claimed that 13% of all squadmates died on the suicide mission in total, not that only 13% people lost one squadmate.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Amyntas wrote...

I only lost Kelly on my first playthrough (if that counts). The choices for the suicide mission aren't all obvious though. As mentioned above, Miranda claims to have substantial biotic abilities, but fails as a biotic in the SM. There are other examples, so the ignorant pride of some people in this thread is unfounded. You remind me of Miranda and her giant ego ;-)

This in comparison to Samara, an asari Justicar with a millennia of experience and whose race is born with biotics or Jack; a biotic super soldier who is cited to be the strongest human biotic in existence. The fact you mention Miranda's ego amuses me because that in itself is a hint she may not be as effective as she perceives herself to be.

You are free to misinterpret the game but it is not "ignorant pride" to insinuate the choice should be obvious. The game provides ample and blatant clues frequently.

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

If it is so punishingly easy, why is there a sticky on top of this section called 'The Ultimate Guide for the Omega-4 Relay Mission'?

People fancy killing off random squad mates for the amusement of it. The first page itself talks about people doing just that. The only mildly vague portion would be Hold the Line and this was only if you brought two of Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed with you. I suppose you could mistake Zaeed/Samara for a Team Leader but even those are partially hinted on. Even if I do believe they should be capable of leading.

Lizardviking wrote...

I might be wrong but I thought that the article you mentioned claimed that 13% of all squadmates died on the suicide mission in total, not that only 13% people lost one squadmate.

My apologies, it was 14%

In any event, 14% of twelve is 1.68 or two if rounded. So I was mistaken claiming one.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:03 .

[thatguy212]

I think its worth saying that Miranda was 100% accurate about her being able to hold the barrier, she was able to get the squad through, its not her fault that a squad member thought it was a good idea to shoot at enemies instead of keeping up with the rest of the team

[Tony Gunslinger]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

If it is so punishingly easy, why is there a sticky on top of this section called 'The Ultimate Guide for the Omega-4 Relay Mission'?

People fancy killing off random squad mates for the amusement of it. The first page itself talks about people doing just that. The only mildly vague portion would be Hold the Line and this was only if you brought two of Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed with you. I suppose you could mistake Zaeed/Samara for a Team Leader but even those are partially hinted on. Even if I do believe they should be capable of leading.

I disagree, that topic covers all aspects of the SM. If it was about how to kill off people, then the topic would be titled How To Kill Off People On Omega-4. The very first thing being said at the very first post is about how to get everyone survive. It is not a formality, it is a necessity. That first post explains the overall mechanics of the SM outcome, but then the writer had to add that addenum in the beginning because the perfect outcome is the most searched and asked topic on this or any other forums.

BTW, that 14% is not the percentage of players who have had dead squadmembers, that is the percentage of squadmates died for every playthrough ever recorded.

[Woodsworth]

This topic is probably my biggest dislike I had for ME2 (a game that I really liked.)



I felt the game was on the verge of being epic. It had its mistakes, but I felt that it got a majority of things right. The story was good, the characters were good, and I actually enjoyed the combat. There were only two things that killed the game for me. The blue/red moral choice bar which shall not be spoken of, and how easy it was for me to get a "perfect" ending. To be honest, I was a bit surprised when I got through the mission without losing anyone. The upgrades to the ship were kinda obvious. I think it was mentioned a couple of times that you might want to upgrade because of how bad the Normandy got beat last time. Doing loyalty missions what a big secret to success either. I collected squad members whenever they were available and did their loyalty missions whenever they came up. I was able to do them all without realizing that wasting time could have cost my crew their lives. The paint by numbers "suicide" mission was fun but I felt like my hand was held the whole time. Even so, all I had to do was not be stupid when giving out orders. "No, Jacob. Why would I trust an extremely important technical task to you when I have a robot with free will that can do it?". "No, Miranda. I think I'll leave the biotics to the justicar. You should use that leader you keep mentioning to lead a team though." I send Mordin back with the crew but I can't remember if the game hinted at that. I think I was slightly concerned after I made the decision that he was going to die since he wasn't combat oriented. Needless say, everyone survived and we all had a nice round or stares and head nods afterwards.



That should not have been the case. I'm not saying take away the perfect endings. I just saying make them require skill to obtain. I want to feel like I just accomplished something big by getting everyone through the suicide mission. It should be something isn't expected by people who play the game. Losing only one or two squad mates should be the stuff of legends. Get everyone through and people should be questioning whether it actually happened. But that is just me and it will never happen. Too many people would get upset.

[mineralica]

My first playthrough wasn't completely blind (thanks to local press who spoiled the destruction of original Normandy), but I know nothing about SM. For example, I thought so many minerals were deposited on planets just to have many resources after passing O4 relay - what Shepard will find some technologies there and investigate not coming back for mining. Also I thought what it will be ~10 hours of gameplay after passing the O4 relay (and not the only mission).

So what can I say? Yes, it's very nice and right feeling about considering every candidate. It's shocking when in the end platform falls and knocks off Shepard and team. But this is really, really driving to finally get achievement at first playthrough. I swear if I were Shepard I'd hugged everyone who was in airlock then - Miranda, Thane and Joker.

And when I opened the reviews and saw how close Mordin was to death because I nearly sent him to vents (but he's genius!), changing at the last moment him on Legion... Another moment which made me love ME2

[Kristofer1]

I lost Mordin my first play through. I sent Zaeed back with the normandy crew thinking he knows how to use a gun he can escort them... bad idea. And I completed every single loyalty mission. I was bummed because I wanted it to be flawless. Second time through I sent mordin with the crew and no one died. Yayyyyy....

Now I am on my third time we'll see what happens, I'm not using Tali for the vents this time, or Miranda to lead 2nd team, or Samarra to do my biotic hold, or Morinth I havent decided who I want.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Hopefully a 'perfect' end in ME3 involves getting through with only losing 3 or 4 squadmates. The perfection achiement should be be for an end run with the minimum amount of casualties, rather than achievement for zero casualties. Zero casualties should be an impossibility. The series shouldn't end with the possibility of not losing a single man. (or woman)

If it were up to me, I'd make it so that gaining a squad mate's loyalty makes it so that he or she is more willing to lay down his or life for you, the rest of the squad, or the mission. So in the end run there should be a moment or two where a squadmate sacrficies herself or himself, to save other members of the squad, assuming you have his or her loyalty, *and* they are detailed out to the right place like the Virmire survivor. You'd also get an achievement for it. Failing to gain that squad mates loyalty makes the person put self-preservation first, they take less risks, and you lose more people on your squad because of it.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 04 janvier 2011 - 08:58 .

[mineralica]

Kristofer1 wrote...

I lost Mordin my first play through. I sent Zaeed back with the normandy crew thinking he knows how to use a gun he can escort them... bad idea. And I completed every single loyalty mission. I was bummed because I wanted it to be flawless. Second time through I sent mordin with the crew and no one died. Yayyyyy....
Now I am on my third time we'll see what happens, I'm not using Tali for the vents this time, or Miranda to lead 2nd team, or Samarra to do my biotic hold, or Morinth I havent decided who I want.

Wait, how? I know, there is survival rate which depends on who left to hold the line and other roles, but how can Mordin die if everyone else is loyal? In my first playthrough Jacob escorted the team (I also thought he knows crew and rather tough), but Mordin did it alive. Can anyone point in which case Mordin dies holding the line if everyone else loyal? Wrong biotic specialist? Team leader?

[thatguy212]

mineralica wrote...

Kristofer1 wrote...

I lost Mordin my first play through. I sent Zaeed back with the normandy crew thinking he knows how to use a gun he can escort them... bad idea. And I completed every single loyalty mission. I was bummed because I wanted it to be flawless. Second time through I sent mordin with the crew and no one died. Yayyyyy....
Now I am on my third time we'll see what happens, I'm not using Tali for the vents this time, or Miranda to lead 2nd team, or Samarra to do my biotic hold, or Morinth I havent decided who I want.

Wait, how? I know, there is survival rate which depends on who left to hold the line and other roles, but how can Mordin die if everyone else is loyal? In my first playthrough Jacob escorted the team (I also thought he knows crew and rather tough), but Mordin did it alive. Can anyone point in which case Mordin dies holding the line if everyone else loyal? Wrong biotic specialist? Team leader?

every squad member has a hold the line value and loyalty is a plus one to that, add up everyones scores together and divid by how many people are there, the value determines how many (if any) people die, and mordin is first on the list to who dies, at least i'm pretty sure thats how it works

[LordNige]

Christastrophe wrote...

After getting the Achievement for the perfect Suicide mission run on my second playthrough (on my first, I was completely blind and didn't get the necessary upgrades, so Jack, Thane and Legion all died before I even got to the base), I've tried to work with different scenarios, with the endgame in 3 in mind.

I wish bioware made the 100% survival a secret achievement, I'm a bit guilty of spying on achievements before completing the game however, I only look at secret achievements online after I complete the game. Shame really, a really dramatic first playthrough would've been nice.

I did lose Mordin on a later playthrough but by then I was so jaded to the experience that It didn't impact me quite so hard.

Modifié par LordNige, 04 janvier 2011 - 09:53 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

thatguy212 wrote...

mineralica wrote...

Kristofer1 wrote...

I lost Mordin my first play through. I sent Zaeed back with the normandy crew thinking he knows how to use a gun he can escort them... bad idea. And I completed every single loyalty mission. I was bummed because I wanted it to be flawless. Second time through I sent mordin with the crew and no one died. Yayyyyy....
Now I am on my third time we'll see what happens, I'm not using Tali for the vents this time, or Miranda to lead 2nd team, or Samarra to do my biotic hold, or Morinth I havent decided who I want.

Wait, how? I know, there is survival rate which depends on who left to hold the line and other roles, but how can Mordin die if everyone else is loyal? In my first playthrough Jacob escorted the team (I also thought he knows crew and rather tough), but Mordin did it alive. Can anyone point in which case Mordin dies holding the line if everyone else loyal? Wrong biotic specialist? Team leader?

every squad member has a hold the line value and loyalty is a plus one to that, add up everyones scores together and divid by how many people are there, the value determines how many (if any) people die, and mordin is first on the list to who dies, at least i'm pretty sure thats how it works

Indeed. Simple way to get Mordin killed with everyone recruited and everyone loyal at the end, using Kristofer's example.
Am guessing Zaeed wasn't loyal due to 'bad idea' in which case any escort non loyal will die.
How to get Mordin dead with the rest loyal... simple
Take Garrus and Grunt to final battle (or even just 1 of them). With them 2 out of the HtL that means number 1 squishy will definitly die. Even with just 1 of them out Mordin will die because one of them can only cover for 2 of the 'squishys' if all loyal. Garrus/Grunt/Zaeed all loyal = 4pts... Mordin loyal = 1 pt. 2 pts/squadmate required for all to survive. Thus them 3 out of the equation Mordin is a DEAD cert (scuse the pun).

As for people talking about their 'Shepards' not being retarded, thus everyone survives. Yeah well I guess they wouldn't know what roleplay is so I guess that would explain such a silly statement. Like say... having a Shep that never wanted Tali in their squad from the first mission, let alone this suicide one. I've already had one Shepard suffer due to that consequence and I wouldn't change it for the world. I'd rather have my Shep stick to their character than metagame and recruit someone they wouldn't just to ensure someone else survives.

[Lunatic LK47]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

If it were up to me, I'd make it so that gaining a squad mate's loyalty makes it so that he or she is more willing to lay down his or life for you, the rest of the squad, or the mission. So in the end run there should be a moment or two where a squadmate sacrficies herself or himself, to save other members of the squad, assuming you have his or her loyalty, *and* they are detailed out to the right place like the Virmire survivor. You'd also get an achievement for it. Failing to gain that squad mates loyalty makes the person put self-preservation first, they take less risks, and you lose more people on your squad because of it.

Uh, that is as stupid as vanilla flavored Fallout 3. You're just telling us "Waste your time with a squadmate just so they die anyway." This is a stupid equivalent of saying "Don't bother doing any side missions, you will *ALWAYS* lose regardless of the outcome."

[Lunatic LK47]

Bourne Endeavor

Aye, yet she is a lone wolf with a millennia of experience, whom has more than likely learned the basics of leadership tactics. The position would not require a military or tactical genius, merely someone competent enough to effectively relay orders with proper efficiency. She may not be as capable as Miranda but I would imagine in her ample existence. She could coordinate a team.

Uh, no. It's as stupid as expecting Connor MacLeod to lead the U.S. military just because he's immortal. Does not compute. Have you even listened to Samara's speech pattern? Therere's no way in hell she'd be able to give orders to Marines without being heard.

Blue text emphasizing soft tone of voice, Red text emphasizing yelling

Samara:  Head to my position

Alliance Marine: I can't ****ing hear you!

Basic communication is key, and while Samara has the experience, she's not a people person, *AT ALL*. Not the type of person you want to lead a fireteam.

Zaeed is a difficulty case because he is arguably comparable to Garrus, albeit with a temper. His emotions and sense of vengeance cloud his better judgment but one could theoretically argue Garrus' misplaced trust indicates his leadership skills are not stellar due to the eventual demise of his unit. What was irksome is Zaeed had a defining character development arc where his actions led to Shepard forcefully drives home the team concept. While it is completely plausible to argue against him even in this regard. I found it was wasted potential.

Uh, Garrus was screwed over by a blackmailed operative, which this **** could happen in real life.  Even the wife of one of the squadmates said Garrus did a great job until that point. An ideal leader should inspire his squadmates to fight for him, not follow orders just because their life will be threatened a la Soviet Army. Why else would Zaeed have the Blue Suns mercs side with Santiago aside from more credits to loot?

Modifié par Lunatic LK47, 05 janvier 2011 - 08:15 .

[Bamboozalist]

I don't get why people expected the suicide mission to be all that deadly. It's like the third suicide mission Shepard has gone on already.

And I agree that a Virmire like scenario only really works once.

Edit: Zaeed? REALLY PEOPLE!? Did you not listen to his stories? They all end with everyone but him dying. Not exactly great leadership material.

Modifié par Bamboozalist, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:19 .

[RiouHotaru]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Hopefully a 'perfect' end in ME3 involves getting through with only losing 3 or 4 squadmates. The perfection achiement should be be for an end run with the minimum amount of casualties, rather than achievement for zero casualties. Zero casualties should be an impossibility. The series shouldn't end with the possibility of not losing a single man. (or woman)

If it were up to me, I'd make it so that gaining a squad mate's loyalty makes it so that he or she is more willing to lay down his or life for you, the rest of the squad, or the mission. So in the end run there should be a moment or two where a squadmate sacrficies herself or himself, to save other members of the squad, assuming you have his or her loyalty, *and* they are detailed out to the right place like the Virmire survivor. You'd also get an achievement for it. Failing to gain that squad mates loyalty makes the person put self-preservation first, they take less risks, and you lose more people on your squad because of it.

I'm sorry, but I believe a "perfect" ending should be possible.  Make it difficult or tedious to achieve, but it SHOULD be possible.  This isn't Dragon Age where the universe is very grimdark or what not.  This is a dramatic action space opera.  Big Damn Heroes moments should be in full effect.

The only reason why the SM was easy, was once people figured out how to do it, it became a snap.  If you read the posts, plenty of folks lost somewhere from 2-4 people on their first blind run.  Subsequent playthroughs did result in zero casualties, but again that was the next playthrough.  I was lucky because I'm a sucker for details.  Besides, Bioware dropping so many hints made it very obvious that they wanted you to keep as many people alive as possible so that:

A) Shepard lives, so you can import your file.

So you have squadmates to make a return with in ME3

[Turran]

I don't let them die.. They just do.

[Jackal904]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I have always made it through with no casualties, because i am not an idiot.
I will never have casualties, because i intend to continue not being an idiot.

Yeah that's kinda my thoughts.

[shinobi602]

Gnas wrote...
I didn't lose anyone, I blew up the base and stuck it to TIM. For me, that was the best experience ever. I took my people to hell and brought them back in one piece. All of this, on my very first run.

This.

You can have your sad and gloomy Mass Effect experience TC, but I prefer to keep everyone alive, that's my best experience with the game. Just like Gnas said, the feeling of overcoming the impossible odds and as a leader making sure everyone comes out alive is what I wanted.

I played a couple playthroughs with some squadmates dying and the feeling sucked. I'll never do it again.

[shinobi602]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Hopefully a 'perfect' end in ME3 involves getting through with only losing 3 or 4 squadmates.

Why do you want to force your idea of a good ending on everyone else? There are a lot of other people who don't want that, me being one of them. Doesn't it make more sense to make that an option so you can experience it instead of forcing it on everybody?

[xxLDZxx]

i have both one perfect run and one not so good. 3-5 dead i think dont remamber but i need to see the secend cast in me 3 for the team.



mybe its posibel that sidonis is replacing garus, taili gets replacd by kal regar and and and or nothing hapen adn they stay dead and nobady is taking ther places.

[R-F]

I never lost any actual squadmates, but the first time I lost half the crew because I didn't want to go through the relay when the Collector's took them. Second run on insanity I made sure was perfect. I hope they don't force a whole new group of squadmates on us, I like the ones we have. Though I'd like Ash back, and to be in semi-regular contact with Liara.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

shinobi602 wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Hopefully a 'perfect' end in ME3 involves getting through with only losing 3 or 4 squadmates.

Why do you want to force your idea of a good ending on everyone else? There are a lot of other people who don't want that, me being one of them. Doesn't it make more sense to make that an option so you can experience it instead of forcing it on everybody?

IMHO As much as I am for multiple endings, I think everyone of Shepards squad/crew/allies surviving at the end of ME3 will be the most biggest pile of cheese on the biggest cheesiest sandwich that has ever been thought of.

Coming out of the Suicide Mission with everyone alive considering what was said about it (in-game am talking here, not just the silly marketing) should've been a lot harder than it was. As it being the middle of the trilogy despite my thoughts on the matter I am ok with it.

Emerging from the big bad final battle with the Reapers (if we are to fight them, which everything seems to point to us doing so) with zero casualties would be downright utterly ridiculous. Shepard maybe the best damned Commander in the Galaxy but s/he shouldn't be some sort of god that can save everyone.

Even though I hate using quotes from a certain trilogy that I really HOPE we don't have a 'similar ending' to in ME3.... "This is a war and we are soldiers, death can come to us at anytime, in any place..." seriously... the one thing 'Matrix' did have right is that a fair few people died in that final battle against the machines. Although even though I hope it doesn't happen, deep in my heart I can see Shepard in one of the endings having a similar fate to Neo.

Considering how some people think that due to Harbingers comments the Reapers are a bit of a joke now. Do people really want that it to get worse? All those countless cycles and you think Shepard should be the one who not only ends it but ensures we have zero casualties?

"You live because we allow it, you will end because we demand it."

Don't get me wrong, I don't want deaths just for the sake that there should be deaths, the deaths should be meaningful and realistic but to say that Shepard can get everyone out alive in the battle against the reapers is downright lunacy imho.