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[Indoctrination]

Has there been any word from the developers on how persuasion will work in Dragon Age II? Will your ability to persuade NPCs in conversations be linked to a persuasion skill again like in Dragon Age: Origins, or will it be something different?

[Legbiter]

Murder Knife will handle all persuasion checks.

[YoziMaiden]

Probably the same way as Mass Effect, because it uses the same dialogue system.

[Indoctrination]

YoziMaiden wrote...

Probably the same way as Mass Effect, because it uses the same dialogue system.

It's not going to be the same as Mass Effect as the developers confirmed many times that there isn't going to be any kind of morality metres (like paragon/renegade).

[Brockololly]

Indoctrination wrote...
It's not going to be the same as Mass Effect as the developers confirmed many times that there isn't going to be any kind of morality metres (like paragon/renegade).

But it might be similar in the sense that dialogue options are only available based on your dominant personality, which is determined based on how often you choose the aggressive, sarcastic and diplomatic responses; not unlike ME2 where your access to paragon/renegade dialogue was based on how often you accumulated those points. DIfference being the dominant personality meter is simply hidden from the player in DA2 whereas the paragon/renegade was visible in ME2.


Question is whether or not there is any kind of coercion or dialogue/persuade skill which you can put points into when you level up? Or for that matter if there are any non combat skills which we can level up? Signs point to "skills" having been taken out alltogether, which would be a shame, IMO.

Modifié par Brockololly, 02 janvier 2011 - 05:39 .

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...

Question is whether or not there is any kind of coercion or dialogue/persuade skill which you can put points into when you level up? Or for that matter if there are any non combat skills which we can level up? Signs point to "skills" having been taken out alltogether, which would be a shame, IMO.

It would, but not so much for a Bioware game because of how shallow persuasion is. It does not really give you RP options because all it boils down to is making a choice of whether or not you want to be persuasive. Ironically, the most developed RPG that Bioware made in terms of RP worthy persuade options was Jade Empire where you had all of 3 variations.

Obsidian is the only company to really do RP persuade well, IMO.

[Meltemph]

I wish conversation skills and where they lead to, would be based on your stats. For instance intimidate/bully based on strength/constitution, diplomacy/lie based on charisma/cunning, and ect. That way the classes themselves would differ from how one would handle the situation, based on ability. Then perhaps an ability that increases these effects for each class.

[Atakuma]

Meltemph wrote...

I wish conversation skills and where they lead to, would be based on your stats. For instance intimidate/bully based on strength/constitution, diplomacy/lie based on charisma/cunning, and ect. That way the classes themselves would differ from how one would handle the situation, based on ability. Then perhaps an ability that increases these effects for each class.

This would be ideal, though the way they have designed the dialogue system doesn't appear to lend itself well to things like this, which is unfortunate.

[andar91]

With the way the dialogue system works, I doubt these sorts of things will be in like they were in Origins and other games.

[AlanC9]

Brockololly wrote...
But it might be similar in the sense that dialogue options are only available based on your dominant personality, which is determined based on how often you choose the aggressive, sarcastic and diplomatic responses; not unlike ME2 where your access to paragon/renegade dialogue was based on how often you accumulated those points. DIfference being the dominant personality meter is simply hidden from the player in DA2 whereas the paragon/renegade was visible in ME2.

"Available" isn't the right word there. In ME2 you couldn't take an option you didn't have the points for (though you could see it), and if you did have the option available you didn't need to use it. The personality options in DA2 won't work like that. Either you'll have access to all personality types for the next line, or there never was any choice of personality type for the next line at all and the game will use the tone for your dominant personality type. IIRC the term for this is an "action" line, where the player is making a decision of some sort.

[Saberchic]

Legbiter wrote...

Murder Knife will handle all persuasion checks.

I laughed so hard when I read this.

[Ortaya Alevli]

I miss those days when any Jedi in our party intervened with their mind tricks if we failed our persuasion checks. Good times.

[Amfortas]

I still believe that the coertion skill should be placed somewhere where you have to sacrifice points to invest on it instead of putting them on another useful ability, Origins failed to do that, since there were more than enough skill points and not many useful skills. The coertion skill should have been a non combat talent like lockpicking in my opinion.

And I don't see how the new dialog system changes things, Mass Effect 1 had a couple of skills for presuade and intimidate (better than the way dragon age handled it)

Brockololly wrote...

Or for that matter if there are any non combat skills which we can level up? Signs point to "skills" having been taken out alltogether, which would be a shame, IMO.

this is new to me, may I know which signs are those? really bad news if it proves to be true.

Modifié par Amfortas, 02 janvier 2011 - 06:50 .

[Ziggeh]

Meltemph wrote...

I wish conversation skills and where they lead to, would be based on your stats. For instance intimidate/bully based on strength/constitution, diplomacy/lie based on charisma/cunning, and ect. That way the classes themselves would differ from how one would handle the situation, based on ability. Then perhaps an ability that increases these effects for each class.

That'd be fairly neat. Especially if the "opponent" had their own stats, making some directions more effective than others.Though it would increase the rewards of stacking a single stat (never keen on that myself, might not be seen as an issue), and still carries that element of "stabbing wolves makes you better at talking to people". Plus you get odd things like needing to be physically strong to threaten people, despite having an eight foot tall lunatic behind you and the ability to set people on fire with your mind.

I kind of like the idea of the persuasion system being entirely within the conversation one: you get better at talking by talking.

[pizoxuat]

And here I thought this thread was going to be about the Jane Austin novel.

[Brockololly]

Amfortas wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Or for that matter if there are any non combat skills which we can level up? Signs point to "skills" having been taken out alltogether, which would be a shame, IMO.

this is new to me, may I know which signs are those? really bad news if it proves to be true.

This screen from one of the demo's they had shows the character screen where you'd think "Skills" would be located, and yet nothing:

[Pedonecrophile]

DA:O Persuasion skill were a laugh. You got 4 levels of Coercion in no time, as other branches weren't worth it - your level limited your skills so Coercion was a natural choice.

[Maria Caliban]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

I miss those days when any Jedi in our party intervened with their mind tricks if we failed our persuasion checks. Good times.

I'd sell out a little boy to a desire demon if it meant I could go around mind whammying everyone.

[Dave of Canada]

I won't miss it, I dislike having a get-out-of-jail-free dialogue option.

[Negix]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

I miss those days when any Jedi in our party intervened with their mind tricks if we failed our persuasion checks. Good times.

I'd sell out a little boy to a desire demon if it meant I could go around mind whammying everyone.

i did that for some attribute points... hach glorious times...

[Shepard Lives]

I loved how speech checks were handled in Fallout New Vegas. Persuasion options were always there regardless of your skill level, but if you didn't meet the requirements the PC's dialogue was... less than charismatic.

Anyhow, I very much hope Persuasion comes back. I find it difficult to play characters who can't trick, bribe, sweet-talk, persuade, seduce, intimidate or otherwise bamboozle their way out of a difficult situation. I would also like to not be able to get to max Persuasion rank before I even leave the first area of the game. That and a bunch of other nitpicks, but I would be fine if Coercion were left mostly untouched from DAO.

[Saibh]

Brockololly wrote...

This screen from one of the demo's they had shows the character screen where you'd think "Skills" would be located, and yet nothing:

Everything you need to know about my DAII priorities is summed up with "The most important part of that screenshot is her hair."

I am ashamed. (But she's so preeeetty!)

[ankuu]

Saibh wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

This screen from one of the demo's they had shows the character screen where you'd think "Skills" would be located, and yet nothing:

Everything you need to know about my DAII priorities is summed up with "The most important part of that screenshot is her hair."

I am ashamed. (But she's so preeeetty!)

Don't be ashamed. That's the first thing i look at whenever i see this pic :lol:MAJOR improvement!

[Liablecocksman]

Meltemph wrote...

I wish conversation skills and where they lead to, would be based on your stats. For instance intimidate/bully based on strength/constitution, diplomacy/lie based on charisma/cunning, and ect. That way the classes themselves would differ from how one would handle the situation, based on ability. Then perhaps an ability that increases these effects for each class.

Like BioWare themselves in Jade Empire, and we know from other games like Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines?
That would be mindnumbingly awesome.

[Dave of Canada]

shepard_lives wrote...

Anyhow, I very much hope Persuasion comes back. I find it difficult to play characters who can't trick, bribe, sweet-talk, persuade, seduce, intimidate or otherwise bamboozle their way out of a difficult situation.

I'd like to be able to do that without persuade, though. Just with normal dialogue.