Dave of Canada wrote...
shepard_lives wrote...
Anyhow, I very much hope Persuasion comes back. I find it difficult to play characters who can't trick, bribe, sweet-talk, persuade, seduce, intimidate or otherwise bamboozle their way out of a difficult situation.
I'd like to be able to do that without persuade, though. Just with normal dialogue.
you could convince alistair without persuasion. but it still was an important skill. and thats kinda the problem: as physical class you NEEDED combat, and persuasion was the most usefull skill, and the only main char exclusive as well. so i really didn't have much choice what to pick, so that system was bad.Milana_Saros wrote...
Separate persuasion skills suck. In most games you have to sacrifice something a million times more useful if you want to be able to persuade a few people here and there (NWN for starters, that D&D system pissed me off so bad sometimes). In DA:O persuasion was involved in some pretty important stuff like for example, persuading romanced Alistair to accept the ritual so neither of you will die. But of course in DA:O you only lost stuff like survival skill if you wanted persuasion skills so it wasn't THAT bad.
At least make sure that if including a separate skill, make the other skills something that isn't that big a deal or something that other party members can specialize in just like in DA:O (Wynne was my potion master for example).
That's actually the way things were handled in Origins. Though with four points in Coercion stats became irrelevant, before you were able to select that fourth point, your Cunning or Strength skill played a part in Persuade and Intimidate, respectively:Meltemph wrote...
I wish conversation skills and where they lead to, would be based on your stats. For instance intimidate/bully based on strength/constitution, diplomacy/lie based on charisma/cunning, and ect. That way the classes themselves would differ from how one would handle the situation, based on ability. Then perhaps an ability that increases these effects for each class.
Negix wrote...
you could convince alistair without persuasion.
Still as you said, it was an important skill and made a lot of scenarios a million times easier. Something which someone focusing on combat efficiency wouldn't get the benefit of.
it seems to me that you like autoleveling up like a machine, maximizing attributes without having to think for a second. In those cases I prefer the JRPG style, that way I don't have to waste my time doing something that a machine can do better than I.Milana_Saros wrote...
Separate persuasion skills suck. In most games you have to sacrifice something a million times more useful if you want to be able to persuade a few people here and there (NWN for starters, that D&D system pissed me off so bad sometimes).
thank you. I don't know what to think. It could be a good thing if non combat abilities have been included in the same group as combat talents. It could be a bad thing if they've made them entirely attribute based (though I'd welcome the return of the charisma attribute). I fear that it is the second option.Brockololly wrote...
This screen from one of the demo's
they had shows the character screen where you'd think "Skills" would be
located, and yet nothing:
Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 03 janvier 2011 - 01:41 .
Mike Smith wrote...
I really think not having Persuasion/Coercion was a weakness of the game. One example of how bad it was is not giving Merrill the dagger results in -115 rivalry with no chance to convince her you're right. I really think they need to return to non-combat skills for DA3.
Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 17 août 2011 - 08:27 .
Cutlass Jack wrote...
...
Oooh necro thread.
Persuasion checks are in game, just 'hidden' by the Dominant Personality system. Each personality can succeed more often in a type of conversation option the other two personalities can't.
A Diplomatic Hawke is best at Diplomacy (of course)
A Witty Hawke does best at Charming people in conversation, but isn't taken seriously when intimidating.
An Aggressive Hawke is best at Intimidation, but isn't very charming.
Also, remember that Rivalry isn't the same thing as a negative score from DAO. That said, I have no objection to a more robust skill system returning to the series. I like skills.
Salaya wrote...
Cutlass Jack wrote...
...
Oooh necro thread.
Persuasion checks are in game, just 'hidden' by the Dominant Personality system. Each personality can succeed more often in a type of conversation option the other two personalities can't.
A Diplomatic Hawke is best at Diplomacy (of course)
A Witty Hawke does best at Charming people in conversation, but isn't taken seriously when intimidating.
An Aggressive Hawke is best at Intimidation, but isn't very charming.
Also, remember that Rivalry isn't the same thing as a negative score from DAO. That said, I have no objection to a more robust skill system returning to the series. I like skills.
Maybe I'm wrong, since I don't know the mechanism well enough, but I think this "persuasion" checks only affect to Hawke's tone. I noticed that being diplomatic opens, sometimes, extra diplomacy options. But choosing them does not affect the outcome, no? In Origins, or NWN, persuasion skill could give you extra exp. and bypass some battles. I never noticed that thing happening in DA2 (except that time with Varric, and it does not give any exp. at all).
esper wrote...
...
No it chances the outcome. If you take the extra-tone icon, you basically suceed. You can by-pass battles, get character on your side, scares characters and so forth with it.
Skipping a battle will always lose you the experience of the fight - a hugh flaw.
Salaya wrote...
I can't believe it... I have played the game three times, with each class, and I have never noticed that diplomacy options bypass battles. Im... annoyed.
Can you give some examples? I will really appreciatte it. Persuasion is a crucial gameplay thing for me.
On top of my head:Salaya wrote...
esper wrote...
...
No it chances the outcome. If you take the extra-tone icon, you basically suceed. You can by-pass battles, get character on your side, scares characters and so forth with it.
Skipping a battle will always lose you the experience of the fight - a hugh flaw.
I can't believe it... I have played the game three times, with each class, and I have never noticed that diplomacy options bypass battles. Im... annoyed.
Can you give some examples? I will really appreciatte it. Persuasion is a crucial gameplay thing for me.
Modifié par esper, 17 août 2011 - 09:36 .
Modifié par xkg, 17 août 2011 - 09:12 .
Cutlass Jack wrote...
Oooh necro thread.
Persuasion checks are in game, just 'hidden' by the Dominant Personality system. Each personality can succeed more often in a type of conversation option the other two personalities can't.
A Diplomatic Hawke is best at Diplomacy (of course)
A Witty Hawke does best at Charming people in conversation, but isn't taken seriously when intimidating.
An Aggressive Hawke is best at Intimidation, but isn't very charming.
esper wrote...
Hawke don't chance personality on the fly.
Modifié par FieryDove, 17 août 2011 - 09:24 .
FieryDove wrote...
I wish they would change this. You can be aggressive and charming when needed. It's also not fair that some conversations only a certain type of Hawke can get through a quest with a slight difference. I would have loved to magical fist "GD" with my snarky (who also is very charming) Hawke but only a diplomatic Hawke is allowed that path. Sigh
Modifié par thats1evildude, 17 août 2011 - 09:44 .
Cutlass Jack wrote...
FieryDove wrote...
I wish they would change this. You can be aggressive and charming when needed. It's also not fair that some conversations only a certain type of Hawke can get through a quest with a slight difference. I would have loved to magical fist "GD" with my snarky (who also is very charming) Hawke but only a diplomatic Hawke is allowed that path. Sigh
Can you be aggressive and charming when needed? Sure anyone can. But that's not the same as being great at it. A person who spends most of his time being charming isn't going to be taken as seriously when he tries to be angry. And an Angry person isn't going to be quite as charming as the previous guy since he hasn't practiced nearly as much at it.
Thats how the system works. A Witty Hawke can still pick aggressive options and succeed often at them. Its just a few of the hardest checks that are out of his reach. But watching him fail those checks can still be funny.
Thats why I like the system. It really encourages you to roleplay an entire personality that's not perfect at everything. Rather than trying to completely change your personality every conversation trying to get the best result. But I can see how others don't like that.
esper wrote...
Exactly what I mean. And unlike Mass Effect you aren't forced to pick paragon or renegade options all the time to get the bonus.
I feel like my Hawke has a personality. In fact they have different once, because I invent complicated rules as to how this Hawke would react in this situation.
In da:o I often felt like I got punished if I didn't pick the persaude option.
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