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[MrGOH]

34. God loves you because of who God is, not because of anything you did or didn't do.



Tricky theological point! God has made you and the whole world, including those he smote down. Take a look at Romans chapter 9 - He apparently makes people He hates (or at least makes folks he will not show mercy), like Esau and Pharoah. Paul's response to those who would ask why God would create people such that they are doomed to never receive his mercy or love is: "O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"



The gist of it is, God either loves or hates you and not because of anything you did but because He made you that way.

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...
Just for the heck of it, reactions to the statements: [/quote]Awesome! Allow me to offer my own counter-reactions. *verbal sparring with Nighteye for the heck of it* 

[quote] 8. It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it.

It's not OK to get angry. Everything has a purpose, so it's better to be thankful for the lessons learned rather than angry. Being angry is like grasping a glowing coal to throw at someone: you are the one getting burned.[/quote]
Depends. It's definitely not OK to be angry *all the time*, but I'd argue that letting that anger express itself is better than suppressing it. The words 'passive-aggressive' and feeling like you're being 'eaten up inside' comes to mind, when you don't deal with / seek to understand emotions when you see them arise but squash them instead. While I get angry, I also know where that anger is coming from, and that makes it OK to handle instead of being dangerous to others or myself.

[quote] 9. Save for retirement starting with your first pay check.

Check with your government first. To see whether it's necessary.[/quote]
In some areas on the world, the government says phooey on you and tries to extract your money from you even by sanctioned and legalized oppression. Also, you never know when you're headed for an economic bust-up or a personal emergency that would suck up funds, so I'd say that it's worthwhile sometimes to save every last damned cent you can.

[quote]11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.

There is no past or future, only the present. Live now.[/quote]
Sometimes, you won't be able to live as effectively in the present if you don't seek to understand how your past affects you and certain unhealthy behaviors that you may have learned or retained. I also know plenty of people who live for the present but don't understand why they're unhappy (often a byproduct of said unhealthy habits and/or trauma, as I've mentioned.)

[quote]12. It's OK to let your children see you cry.

If your children see you cry it may truamatise them, especially if there's no clear reason.[/quote]
BUT if you don't let your children realize that you're human and fallible, and always strive to be the paragon of virtue and saintly parenthood, one day when it all breaks down they ARE going to be traumatized when they realize that Mom or Dad is human and needs to feel emotions as well. I've seen this happen to the detriment of many parents.

[quote]17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.

Hang on to everything that may be useful later.[/quote]
You realize that there's a psychological disorder known as 'hoarding', right?

[quote] 26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words 'In five years, will this matter?'

Why get distracted by the future, when there is only the now? Just do what feels right when disaster happens, and do not worry about it later.[/quote]
But there are also consequences for everything, some of which may be hard or impossible to reverse.

[quote]34. God loves you because of who God is, not because of anything you did or didn't do.

But just because he loves you doesn't mean he'll protect you from harm.[/quote]
Addendum to the OP: that particular conceptualization of God is rooted in contemporary evangelical thought, and not necessarily a reflection of what other cultures or peoples in different times - including Christians in the past - have thought of God. [/quote]
Other than that, back to Nighteye2, I more or less agree with you on the rest of the points that you've made.

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 27 octobre 2009 - 03:33 .

[LadyKarrakaz]

@Nighteye2:

Would be too long to quote your post and react on each sentence (and there are many where I agree with you). First I thought you were just destroying it, and then, no, just adding some let's say realistic, though still optimistic, point of view.

On these:

Some made me laugh a lot, aren't you exagerraint a little? Especially sentences 2, 4, 15, 20, 39 and 43.


On 8, despite the reference to God. I think that being angry is necessary.  It does not have to be permanent, or it will be destructive. But being angry can also protect you, and help you move forward. Suffering can be a healing force sometimes. Some people think that being angry is bad. I don't think it is always the case.

11 Sure, only present, but just look at people having suffered a lot (abuses etc.), their past is haunting them and prevent them from being happy now. They first have to heal their scars before moving forward.

25 Sure, other influence you, but in the end, you are the one in charge of your happiness. If some persons are toxic to you, you are the one letting them or not having an influence in your life. Your boss/mom/brother is destroying you? Fine, you have the choice: endure or get rid of the toxic relationship.

I can only agree with you in your last sentence. In the end, we just have to try our best to take the most of this life.

[Quixal]

Here you go. Something Positive.



http://www.something....net/index.html

[LadyKarrakaz]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...



Thought it was relevant.

I don't know if it's relevant, but this is EPIC

[Dennis Carpenter]

everyday is a new shot on getting it right

[Mordaedil]

Somehow, Nighteye2's addendum was less depressing for me than the original advice.



Good one, Nighteye. Those are words worth living with.

[SardaukarElite]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

Positive thinking:

Telling yourself that "it could be worse". Seriously, it works. 

Why would you challenge the universe like that? 

[Nighteye2]

[quote]Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...
Just for the heck of it, reactions to the statements: [/quote]Awesome! Allow me to offer my own counter-reactions. *verbal sparring with Nighteye for the heck of it* [/quote]
Verbal sparring is fun.
[quote][quote] 8. It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it.

It's not OK to get angry. Everything has a purpose, so it's better to be thankful for the lessons learned rather than angry. Being angry is like grasping a glowing coal to throw at someone: you are the one getting burned.[/quote]
Depends. It's definitely not OK to be angry *all the time*, but I'd argue that letting that anger express itself is better than suppressing it. The words 'passive-aggressive' and feeling like you're being 'eaten up inside' comes to mind, when you don't deal with / seek to understand emotions when you see them arise but squash them instead. While I get angry, I also know where that anger is coming from, and that makes it OK to handle instead of being dangerous to others or myself.
[/quote]
Yes, suppressing anger is worse. To go with the example I gave, that'd be like swallowing that glowing coal. When you find yourself getting angry, you must not act upon it, but not supress it either. Instead, you just have to let it go. Find out why you are angry, being as honest and impartial as you can manage - and then act rationally based on what you discover.
For example, if you are angry because of what someone said, try to understand why they said it (maybe even ask why he/she said it) and why it makes you feel angry. Does what he/she says conflict with one of your beliefs? If so, which belief and why do you value that belief so much? Are you sure that belief is right, and are you sure you're not exaggerating the value of that belief?
If you cannot find a good reason to be angry, it becomes very easy to just let it go.
[quote]
[quote] 9. Save for retirement starting with your first pay check.

Check with your government first. To see whether it's necessary.[/quote]
In some areas on the world, the government says phooey on you and tries to extract your money from you even by sanctioned and legalized oppression. Also, you never know when you're headed for an economic bust-up or a personal emergency that would suck up funds, so I'd say that it's worthwhile sometimes to save every last damned cent you can.[/quote]
If your government doesn't take care of you, you do have to save up for your retirement, yes. And it doesn't hurt to save some money for emergencies, but that is not the same as saving for retirement.
[quote]
[quote]11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.

There is no past or future, only the present. Live now.[/quote]
Sometimes, you won't be able to live as effectively in the present if you don't seek to understand how your past affects you and certain unhealthy behaviors that you may have learned or retained. I also know plenty of people who live for the present but don't understand why they're unhappy (often a byproduct of said unhealthy habits and/or trauma, as I've mentioned.)[/quote]
They live for the present but not in the present. That trauma and those unhealthy habits exist in the present, too, and only in the present can they be changed. You cannot change the past, but you can act now to change the present. It's a bit hard to accurately explain - entire books have been written about mindfulness.
[quote]
[quote]12. It's OK to let your children see you cry.

If your children see you cry it may truamatise them, especially if there's no clear reason.[/quote]
BUT if you don't let your children realize that you're human and fallible, and always strive to be the paragon of virtue and saintly parenthood, one day when it all breaks down they ARE going to be traumatized when they realize that Mom or Dad is human and needs to feel emotions as well. I've seen this happen to the detriment of many parents. [/quote]
There are better ways to do that than to cry. Do not be afraid to make mistakes, to admit mistakes, and take responsibility for the mistakes you make. You can't always cry and expect someone else to solve your problems. Children need to be taught that making mistakes is human, but recognising them and taking responsibility for them is, too.
[quote]
[quote]17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.

Hang on to everything that may be useful later.[/quote]
You realize that there's a psychological disorder known as 'hoarding', right? [/quote]
Yes, but there are many things that won't be useful later, either.
[quote]
[quote] 26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words 'In five years, will this matter?'

Why get distracted by the future, when there is only the now? Just do what feels right when disaster happens, and do not worry about it later.[/quote]
But there are also consequences for everything, some of which may be hard or impossible to reverse. [/quote]
Yes, which is why you must focus on acting in the present to prevent those consequences, instead of wasting time worrying about them.
[quote]
[quote]34. God loves you because of who God is, not because of anything you did or didn't do.

But just because he loves you doesn't mean he'll protect you from harm.[/quote]
Addendum to the OP: that particular conceptualization of God is rooted in contemporary evangelical thought, and not necessarily a reflection of what other cultures or peoples in different times - including Christians in the past - have thought of God. [/quote]
Other than that, back to Nighteye2, I more or less agree with you on the rest of the points that you've made.

[/quote]

Glad you agree.

[quote]Purple Lady wrote...

@Nighteye2:

Would be too long to quote your post and react on each sentence (and there are many where I agree with you). First I thought you were just destroying it, and then, no, just adding some let's say realistic, though still optimistic, point of view.

On these:

Some made me laugh a lot, aren't you exagerraint a little? Especially sentences 2, 4, 15, 20, 39 and 43.[/quote]

On occasion, yes. It can be fun to exaggerate a little at times.

[quote]
On 8, despite the reference to God. I think that being angry is necessary.  It does not have to be permanent, or it will be destructive. But being angry can also protect you, and help you move forward. Suffering can be a healing force sometimes. Some people think that being angry is bad. I don't think it is always the case. [/quote]

It's a signal. You should act upon it in the way I described above and then let it go, not dwell upon it.

[quote]11 Sure, only present, but just look at people having suffered a lot (abuses etc.), their past is haunting them and prevent them from being happy now. They first have to heal their scars before moving forward. [/quote]

Yes, but those scars exist in the present. They were caused in the past, but they exist only in the present.

[quote]25 Sure, other influence you, but in the end, you are the one in charge of your happiness. If some persons are toxic to you, you are the one letting them or not having an influence in your life. Your boss/mom/brother is destroying you? Fine, you have the choice: endure or get rid of the toxic relationship.

I can only agree with you in your last sentence. In the end, we just have to try our best to take the most of this life.
[/quote]

You don't always have that choice to let go. If someone holds you at gunpoint to rob you, you can't just get rid of them because you don't like how they influence your life at that moment. <_<

[Urgnu the Gnu]

[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...

[quote]Purple Lady wrote...

1. Life isn't fair, but it's still good.[/quote]
It sounds nice, but you have to be careful you're not deluding yourself. Some people have it really bad when life isn't being fair to them.[/quote]
You may not realize it, but you are arguing in favor of suicide.

[quote]

[quote]6. You don't have to win every argument. Agree to disagree.[/quote]
That's the easy way out. If you have time, keep on trying to understand eachother until you find something you can agree on - which may be an argument neither of you started out with.[/quote]
To some degree, I agree. But the other one, or yourself, can also be wrong. And/or irrational and/or stubborn. You really don't have to agree with others. Especially because you only rarely win an argument or just end it having created something. Discuss responsibly is more fitting, I'd say.

[quote]

[quote]7. Cry with someone. It's more healing than crying alone.[/quote]
At the same time, it also burdens others with your pain. Cry only of those who are willing to share your burdens.[/quote]
Better yet, why cry at all? For the sake of it, i.e. because you want to? That I would understand. But if you think positive about it, you may find a much better way of coping with your experiences. That way you could even achieve something. (Oh how I fear this might be mistaken. )

[quote]

[quote]11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.[/quote]
There is no past or future, only the present. Live now.[/quote]
Apart from my own opinion, that's what #11 says, eh?

[quote]

[quote]12. It's OK to let your children see you cry.[/quote]
If your children see you cry it may truamatise them, especially if there's no clear reason.[/quote]
Now where did you get this misinformation? Though it may be true for some if they become disillusioned (and that number is very small), but #12 appeals you to not establish illusions at all. In addition, if they never see their parents cry because their parents desperately try not to cry, they may think it's not allowed to cry, which would indeed traumatize them.

Also, as said, you may be happier if you don't need to cry at all.

[quote]

[quote]13. Don't compare your life to others. You have no idea what their journey is all about.[/quote]
You can learn a lot by learning about other people's journey's. Just don't lose sight of your own while learning about theirs.[/quote]
Still, in a way, the #13 applies. You may think movie star X is your age and has a good life, and that you could have this as well, but you don't know that movie star X suffers, badly.

[quote]

[quote]14. If a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldn't be in it.[/quote]
This really depends on the circumstances. If you live amongst racists, you *should* be in a relationship with someone from another race. It is the path to change, even if it has to remain secret at first.[/quote]
Well, though it is not defined, it is quite clear to me that #14 means to say that if your loved one can't confess to you, out of her own choice, her love to you seems not as strong as it could be. In other words, you deserve as much love as possible.

[quote]

[quote]15. Everything can change in the blink of an eye. But don't worry; God never blinks.[/quote]
How would she know? Has she seen God?[/quote]
I would go one step further. Indeed I wouldn't agree on it. If it means that everything always stays the same, at least in a larger context, then no, I don't know how to agree.

[quote]

17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.[/quote]
That's always open to interpretation. How can we know whether some knowledge is not useful? Isn't it up to us what to make of it?

[quote]

[quote]18. Whatever doesn't kill you really does make you stronger.[/quote]
This really depends on the situation. Some people get broken by adversity, or are left disabled from physical injuries. That hardly qualifies as stronger. But those who adapt and cope with the situation, those do become stronger.[/quote]
I don't know how many of you are familiar with Goethe's Werther. Basically, the thought behind it is that your every experience affects your "soul", so to speak. There are experiences that can mentally crush us, or some that only hurt us. They weaken us. Eventually, this leads to a question: What happens when your soul dies but your body remains healthy?

Indeed, it is rather the things we are able to overcome that can make us learn. However, this is all relative.

[quote]

19. It's never too late to have a happy childhood. But the second one is up to you and no one else.[/quote]
I don't know. Isn't childhood largely about interaction? (Attention, rhetorical question. images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png)

[quote]

[quote]20. When it comes to going after what you love in life, don't take no for an answer.[/quote]
Stalking people is very naughty.[/quote]
That is another interesting question. Roughly said, I think this has to succumb to the desire of well-being of the other ones (and yourself) involved.

[quote]

[quote]21. Burn the candles, use the nice sheets, wear the fancy lingerie. Don't save it for a special occasion, Today is special.[/quote]
If every day is special, the special becomes ordinary. It's better to let the special remain special, so it really feels better when it happens.[/quote]
But what if special never comes? Tell me, how many healing potions did you have at the end of your last RPG? images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png Though you are not wrong. I'd rather say that every day can be special.

[quote]

[quote]23. Be eccentric now. Don't wait for old age to wear purple.[/quote]
But mind the occasion. Eccentric doesn't work well in a business setting. Except if you're the boss, but that's something else entirely.[/quote]
What's the appeal of being deliberately eccentric, anyway?

[quote]

[quote]24. The most important sex organ is the brain.[/quote]
Just remember that direct stimulation of the brain with electrodes is dangerous. Do not try to improve your sex life through brain surgery.[/quote]
Now I have naughty thoughts... (Double entendre intended.)

[quote]

[quote]26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words 'In five years, will this matter?'[/quote]
Why get distracted by the future, when there is only the now? Just do what feels right when disaster happens, and do not worry about it later.[/quote]
That's what #26 says. A disaster may not be as bad as it seems.

[quote]

[quote]27. Always choose life.[/quote]
Except when death is really preferable. If your suffering is unbearable with no hope of relief, death is worth considering.[/quote]
So I wasn't that wrong with #1... but do you mean for yourself, or for others? In any way, that's the easy way out you scolded above. Why should it be unbearable? Why should there be no hope of relief? Those depend on the person, so they don't apply to everyone the same, but you can always hope, always bear. It only gets harder. Naturally this is a moral grey area, but in most of the cases, there is another possible option to death.

[quote]

[quote]28. Forgive everyone and everything.[/quote]
But do not forget.[/quote]
Furthermore, don't be naive. What if you forgive someone who doesn't strive for forgiveness?

[quote]

[quote]30. Time heals almost everything. Give it time.[/quote]
But do not be afraid to seek professional help if you have the feeling that time alone is not enough.[/quote]
Yes. I'd like to stress this one. Few, very few are strong enough to go through life, remaining strong and unharmed all the time. Needing help is not weakness, not at all. Rather, it is human. So don't hesitate to ask for help, and if necessary, get the best help possible - professional help. Don't be too stubborn.

[quote]

31. However good or bad a situation is, it will change.[/quote]
In that regard, the blinking part means... what?

[quote]

[quote]33. Believe in miracles.[/quote]
But don't forget to act towards their realisation. You never get something for nothing.[/quote]
And furthermore, don't expect them. Often enough, you have to work with what you've got.

[quote]

[quote]35. Don't audit life. Show up and make the most of it now.[/quote]
A lot can be accomplished by being at the right place at the right time.[/quote]
But you could also achieve a lot by doing something till the right time comes. Maybe more than by acting just then. And what's more, acting now isn't necessarily mutually exclusive to acting then.

[quote]

[quote]37. Your children get only one childhood.[/quote]
As children. They'll begin their second childhood without your help. (see 19)[/quote]
My thoughts as well. I get two, but they get only one? How unfair! images/forum/emoticons/lol.png

[quote]

[quote]38. All that truly matters in the end is that you loved.[/quote]
And what you loved.[/quote]
And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make.

[quote]

[quote]43. No matter how you feel, get up, dress up and show up.[/quote]
And infect everyone else with the disease you're carrying.

Really, sometimes it's better to stay home - it's safer for other people.[/quote]
I don't think this one was about being ill...

[quote]Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

[quote] 8. It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it.

It's not OK to get angry. Everything has a purpose, so it's better to be thankful for the lessons learned rather than angry. Being angry is like grasping a glowing coal to throw at someone: you are the one getting burned.[/quote]
Depends. It's definitely not OK to be angry *all the time*, but I'd argue that letting that anger express itself is better than suppressing it. The words 'passive-aggressive' and feeling like you're being 'eaten up inside' comes to mind, when you don't deal with / seek to understand emotions when you see them arise but squash them instead. While I get angry, I also know where that anger is coming from, and that makes it OK to handle instead of being dangerous to others or myself.[/quote]
What about trying to not get angry in the first place?

[quote]

[quote]11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.

There is no past or future, only the present. Live now.[/quote]
Sometimes, you won't be able to live as effectively in the present if you don't seek to understand how your past affects you and certain unhealthy behaviors that you may have learned or retained. I also know plenty of people who live for the present but don't understand why they're unhappy (often a byproduct of said unhealthy habits and/or trauma, as I've mentioned.)[/quote]
Indeed. If we don't understand, accept, cope with our past, we are bound to repeat it.

[quote]

[quote]12. It's OK to let your children see you cry.

If your children see you cry it may truamatise them, especially if there's no clear reason.[/quote]
BUT if you don't let your children realize that you're human and fallible, and always strive to be the paragon of virtue and saintly parenthood, one day when it all breaks down they ARE going to be traumatized when they realize that Mom or Dad is human and needs to feel emotions as well. I've seen this happen to the detriment of many parents. [/quote]
Indeed. Should have read your post as well before hitting quote... Suffice to say, it all comes down to education, to make it short.

[quote]

[quote]17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.

Hang on to everything that may be useful later.[/quote]
You realize that there's a psychological disorder known as 'hoarding', right? [/quote]
We're all RPGlers, aren't we?

[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...

[quote]

[quote]11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.

There is no past or future, only the present. Live now.[/quote]
Sometimes, you won't be able to live as effectively in the present if you don't seek to understand how your past affects you and certain unhealthy behaviors that you may have learned or retained. I also know plenty of people who live for the present but don't understand why they're unhappy (often a byproduct of said unhealthy habits and/or trauma, as I've mentioned.)[/quote]
They live for the present but not in the present. That trauma and those unhealthy habits exist in the present, too, and only in the present can they be changed. You cannot change the past, but you can act now to change the present.[/quote]
But can they be changed without the past?

Modifié par Urgnu the Gnu, 27 octobre 2009 - 12:46 .

[Nighteye2]

[quote]Urgnu the Gnu wrote...

[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...

[quote]Purple Lady wrote...

1. Life isn't fair, but it's still good.[/quote]
It sounds nice, but you have to be careful you're not deluding yourself. Some people have it really bad when life isn't being fair to them.[/quote]
You may not realize it, but you are arguing in favor of suicide.[/quote]
Not really. When life is bad, you should get up and do something about it, rather than give up and end it.
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]7. Cry with someone. It's more healing than crying alone.[/quote]
At the same time, it also burdens others with your pain. Cry only of those who are willing to share your burdens.[/quote]
Better yet, why cry at all? For the sake of it, i.e. because you want to? That I would understand. But if you think positive about it, you may find a much better way of coping with your experiences. That way you could even achieve something. (Oh how I fear this might be mistaken. )[/quote]
Well, crying can give relief when you're sad, and make you feel better. It's functional that way. Especially when something happens that you can do nothing about - like a relative having died.
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]12. It's OK to let your children see you cry.[/quote]
If your children see you cry it may truamatise them, especially if there's no clear reason.[/quote]
Now where did you get this misinformation? Though it may be true for some if they become disillusioned (and that number is very small), but #12 appeals you to not establish illusions at all. In addition, if they never see their parents cry because their parents desperately try not to cry, they may think it's not allowed to cry, which would indeed traumatize them.

Also, as said, you may be happier if you don't need to cry at all.[/quote]
It's ok if there's a good reason - like one of your parents dying. Children will understand why you cry then.
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]13. Don't compare your life to others. You have no idea what their journey is all about.[/quote]
You can learn a lot by learning about other people's journey's. Just don't lose sight of your own while learning about theirs.[/quote]
Still, in a way, the #13 applies. You may think movie star X is your age and has a good life, and that you could have this as well, but you don't know that movie star X suffers, badly.[/quote]
It's only bad if you idealise the life you compare your own to - like with the movie star, forgetting the busy schedules and all the downsides to fame.
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]18. Whatever doesn't kill you really does make you stronger.[/quote]
This really depends on the situation. Some people get broken by adversity, or are left disabled from physical injuries. That hardly qualifies as stronger. But those who adapt and cope with the situation, those do become stronger.[/quote]
I don't know how many of you are familiar with Goethe's Werther. Basically, the thought behind it is that your every experience affects your "soul", so to speak. There are experiences that can mentally crush us, or some that only hurt us. They weaken us. Eventually, this leads to a question: What happens when your soul dies but your body remains healthy?

Indeed, it is rather the things we are able to overcome that can make us learn. However, this is all relative.[/quote]
I'm not familiar with his work, although it sounds interesting. But I do disagree in part: the soul cannot die, and if the mind is not healthy the body will come to reflect that. People who get mentally crushed often see their physical health deteriorate as a result, too.
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]21. Burn the candles, use the nice sheets, wear the fancy lingerie. Don't save it for a special occasion, Today is special.[/quote]
If every day is special, the special becomes ordinary. It's better to let the special remain special, so it really feels better when it happens.[/quote]
But what if special never comes? Tell me, how many healing potions did you have at the end of your last RPG? images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png Though you are not wrong. I'd rather say that every day can be special.[/quote]
All of them. Except those potions I sold for cash. I just never really needed them.
I agree that you have to keep an open mind, to find many special things even in those things that appear ordinary. There are layers of complexity and history to almost everything that most people have a habit to ignore.
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]23. Be eccentric now. Don't wait for old age to wear purple.[/quote]
But mind the occasion. Eccentric doesn't work well in a business setting. Except if you're the boss, but that's something else entirely.[/quote]
What's the appeal of being deliberately eccentric, anyway?[/quote]
Good question. Maybe the intent is to not let yourself be limited by social norms about how you should look or dress?
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]27. Always choose life.[/quote]
Except when death is really preferable. If your suffering is unbearable with no hope of relief, death is worth considering.[/quote]
So I wasn't that wrong with #1... but do you mean for yourself, or for others? In any way, that's the easy way out you scolded above. Why should it be unbearable? Why should there be no hope of relief? Those depend on the person, so they don't apply to everyone the same, but you can always hope, always bear. It only gets harder. Naturally this is a moral grey area, but in most of the cases, there is another possible option to death.[/quote]
I am against suicide, but not against euthanasia. Unbearable suffering with no hope of relief is literally what's written in the law about euthanasia. An example would be someone with an advanced stage of cancer, where doctors have given up treatment and are basically waiting for the patient to die - after weeks or months of suffering. I can understand if that patient would rather die quickly and painlessly.
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]28. Forgive everyone and everything.[/quote]
But do not forget.[/quote]
Furthermore, don't be naive. What if you forgive someone who doesn't strive for forgiveness?[/quote]
You don't forgive someone for their sake - you do it mainly for yourself. If someone has truly wronged you, why waste time and effort thinking about them and what they've done? Better to forgive and let what happened be, so that you can move on with your life. But do not be naïve - do not forget.
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]38. All that truly matters in the end is that you loved.[/quote]
And what you loved.[/quote]
And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make.[/quote]
Don't you mean the love you are given? Love is not something to be taken.
[quote]
[quote]

[quote]43. No matter how you feel, get up, dress up and show up.[/quote]
And infect everyone else with the disease you're carrying.

Really, sometimes it's better to stay home - it's safer for other people.[/quote]
I don't think this one was about being ill...[/quote]
Even then, moods are infectious, too. A single depressed person can dim an entire room.
[quote]
[quote]Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...
[quote]17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.

Hang on to everything that may be useful later.[/quote]
You realize that there's a psychological disorder known as 'hoarding', right? [/quote]
We're all RPGlers, aren't we? [/quote]
Indeed.
[quote]
[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...
[quote]
[quote]11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.

There is no past or future, only the present. Live now.[/quote]
Sometimes, you won't be able to live as effectively in the present if you don't seek to understand how your past affects you and certain unhealthy behaviors that you may have learned or retained. I also know plenty of people who live for the present but don't understand why they're unhappy (often a byproduct of said unhealthy habits and/or trauma, as I've mentioned.)[/quote]
They live for the present but not in the present. That trauma and those unhealthy habits exist in the present, too, and only in the present can they be changed. You cannot change the past, but you can act now to change the present.[/quote]
But can they be changed without the past?[/quote]
Yes, the memories of the past exist in the present - you can use those whenever necessary.

[JadeHand1]

www.youtube.com/watch Happiness Is The Road
www.marillion.com/music/lyrics/hitr.htm#happiness Lyrics.

[Maria Caliban]

This thread makes me miss my meds.



I recall once I was walking. It was dusk. The wind blew and the way the leaves on the nearby trees looked reminded me of the ocean; the branches and leaves swayed and rippled, and the trees all moved together as well, and I was captivated by the sight. My vision became very clear and could see the profusion of green and orange leaves both as thousands of separate parts and as a single moving thing.



When the wind blew again, I felt as though I were rippling along with them.



It would call it a peaceful moment, but I could also call it an energetic moment. It was like staring down a long precipice and balancing perfectly on the edge.

[Ecaiki]

You have a very... dark view of the world Nighteye.  Since others are playing the reply game, I wanna play too!

[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...

[quote]6. You don't have to win every argument. Agree to disagree.[/quote]
That's the easy way out. If you have time, keep on trying to understand eachother until you find something you can agree on - which may be an argument neither of you started out with.[/quote]
I hate when people say that.  There are some people we will never get along with, and views we will never accept/understand.  Agreeing to disagree is the best option in these situations.

[quote][quote]8. It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it.[/quote]
It's not OK to get angry. Everything has a purpose, so it's better to be thankful for the lessons learned rather than angry. Being angry is like grasping a glowing coal to throw at someone: you are the one getting burned.[/quote]
Yes it is OK to get angry, it's what you do with that anger that matters.  Just like every other emotion we feel.

[quote][quote]9. Save for retirement starting with your first pay check.[/quote]
Check with your government first. To see whether it's necessary.[/quote]
Never assume support will be there, so strive to support yourself first.  She's advocating planning for the future, which is something so many people fail to do.  Then they cry when they end up in a mess of their own creation.

[quote][quote]11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.[/quote]
There is no past or future, only the present. Live now.[/quote]
Try telling that to someone you've pissed off and has come to beat the snot out of you.

[quote][quote]14. If a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldn't be in it.[/quote]
This really depends on the circumstances. If you live amongst racists, you *should* be in a relationship with someone from another race. It is the path to change, even if it has to remain secret at first.[/quote]
If a relationship has to be kept a secret, then 9 times out of 10 it's not for a healthy or good reason.

[quote][quote]26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words 'In five years, will this matter?'[/quote]
Why get distracted by the future, when there is only the now? Just do what feels right when disaster happens, and do not worry about it later.[/quote]
Thinking long-term is good advice, since there are concequences to every action.  Though in this case she's talking about a way to turn a mountain back into a mole hill.

[quote][quote]27. Always choose life.[/quote]
Except when death is really preferable. If your suffering is unbearable with no hope of relief, death is worth considering.[/quote]
There's always a silver lining, always a reason to go on, even if it's not obvious at the moment.

[quote][quote]40. If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back.[/quote]
Even though it'd be more efficient to share your problems with those who have similar problems, and find the solution together. Sharing your problems gives other people the opportunity to offer advice that may help you.[/quote]
Seeing how bad others have it can often make our own problems seem smaller and easy to deal with.  I know a guy, nice guy, but if I had to choose between our past problems, I'd take mine in a heartbeat.



As for positive advice, hmm...  how about...  no matter how much love and support you may have, at the end of the day the only one who can fix or change things is you.

[Nivraym]

This thread makes me feel a bit warm and fuzzy inside.

I don't know if I hate it or love it yet.

But I'll stick around.



“You must be the change you want to see in the world.”

- Mahatma Gandhi

[Balraw]

Suprised no one has posted this here yet .... www.youtube.com/watch

[Maria Caliban]

How do you do that with your links? 

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 27 octobre 2009 - 07:35 .

[Urgnu the Gnu]

[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...

Not really. When life is bad, you should get up and do something about it, rather than give up and end it.[/quote]
Yeah, but still, live, living, is good. As opposed to not living. I didn't mean to say you actively support it, but it can be interpreted in that way.

[quote]

Well, crying can give relief when you're sad, and make you feel better. It's functional that way. Especially when something happens that you can do nothing about - like a relative having died.[/quote]
Yes, indeed, I understand that. It's just alien to me as a reaction.

[quote]

It's only bad if you idealise the life you compare your own to - like with the movie star, forgetting the busy schedules and all the downsides to fame.[/quote]
Also if you generally interpret it the wrong way, or learn the wrong things. And then there really is some people to whom you hardly can compare yourself.


[quote]

I'm not familiar with his work, although it sounds interesting. But I do disagree in part: the soul cannot die, and if the mind is not healthy the body will come to reflect that. People who get mentally crushed often see their physical health deteriorate as a result, too.[/quote]
I don't agree either, but the concept is not as wrong as I could ignore it. At one point, Werther argues that you cannot change the way you feel, the same way you cannot change what happens to your body. So scolding suicide would be the same as scolding someone dying from fever.

Though that begins to have to do less with the original quote...

[quote]

Good question. Maybe the intent is to not let yourself be limited by social norms about how you should look or dress?[/quote]
But that is pretty possible without being generally eccentric. If you don't choose to be anti-social, you can always be yourself instead of being someone in the norm or not in the norm. "Eccentric", however, has negative implications, at least around here.

[quote]

I am against suicide, but not against euthanasia. Unbearable suffering with no hope of relief is literally what's written in the law about euthanasia. An example would be someone with an advanced stage of cancer, where doctors have given up treatment and are basically waiting for the patient to die - after weeks or months of suffering. I can understand if that patient would rather die quickly and painlessly.[/quote]
Hm... no, I'd rather not discuss that here, that's a bit to controversial for my taste.

[quote]

You don't forgive someone for their sake - you do it mainly for yourself.[/quote]
But that's not as much forgiving as making peace with the past.

[quote]

Don't you mean the love you are given? Love is not something to be taken.[/quote]
It's a quote, silly. The words are chose for lyrical reasons, and most probably they meant it the right way.

[quote]

Even then, moods are infectious, too. A single depressed person can dim an entire room.[/quote]
But it should work the other way around as well. If moods are infectious, other people will "infect" you with joy as well.

[quote]

Yes, the memories of the past exist in the present - you can use those whenever necessary.[/quote]
And that's exactly what we meant. Well, at least what I meant. The past is important.

[quote]Maria Caliban wrote...

I recall once I was walking. It was dusk. The wind blew and the way the leaves on the nearby trees looked reminded me of the ocean; the branches and leaves swayed and rippled, and the trees all moved together as well, and I was captivated by the sight. My vision became very clear and could see the profusion of green and orange leaves both as thousands of separate parts and as a single moving thing.

When the wind blew again, I felt as though I were rippling along with them.

It would call it a peaceful moment, but I could also call it an energetic moment. It was like staring down a long precipice and balancing perfectly on the edge.[/quote]
That's beautiful.

[quote]Maria Caliban wrote...



How do you do that with your links? [/quote]
The same as in the old forums. Alternatively, you can click the world with the chain.

Also, happiness...

Modifié par Urgnu the Gnu, 27 octobre 2009 - 08:45 .

[Sol Nox]

It's not how you fall, it's how you get back up.

[Nighteye2]

[quote]Ecaiki wrote...

You have a very... dark view of the world Nighteye.&nbsp; Since others are playing the reply game, I wanna play too! [/quote]

Dark? I'd rather call it realistic optimism.

[quote]
[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...

[quote]6. You don't have to win every argument. Agree to disagree.[/quote]
That's the easy way out. If you have time, keep on trying to understand eachother until you find something you can agree on - which may be an argument neither of you started out with.[/quote]
I&nbsp;hate when people say that.&nbsp; There are some people we will never get along with, and views we will never accept/understand.&nbsp; Agreeing to disagree is the best option in these situations.[/quote]
It's not bad to agree to disagree, but it is the easy way out. Even if it's perfectly understandable when you consider it not worth the effort to reach agreement on a particular issue.
[quote]
[quote][quote]8. It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it.[/quote]
It's not OK to get angry. Everything has a purpose, so it's better to be thankful for the lessons learned rather than angry. Being angry is like grasping a glowing coal to throw at someone: you are the one getting burned.[/quote]
Yes it is OK to get angry, it's what you do with that anger that matters.&nbsp; Just like every other emotion we feel.[/quote]
Did you read my replies about this in the other posts? :innocent:
[quote]
[quote][quote]9. Save for retirement starting with your first pay check.[/quote]
Check with your government first. To see whether it's necessary.[/quote]
Never assume support will be there, so strive to support yourself first.&nbsp; She's advocating planning for the future, which is something so many people fail to do.&nbsp; Then they cry when they end up in a mess of their own creation.[/quote]
The outcome of the check can be positive or negative.
[quote]
[quote][quote]11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.[/quote]
There is no past or future, only the present. Live now.[/quote]
Try telling that to someone you've pissed off and has come to beat the snot out of you. [/quote]
The present is always the best time to make amends.
[quote]
[quote][quote]14. If a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldn't be in it.[/quote]
This really depends on the circumstances. If you live amongst racists, you *should* be in a relationship with someone from another race. It is the path to change, even if it has to remain secret at first.[/quote]
If a relationship has to be kept a secret, then 9 times out of 10 it's not for a healthy or good reason.[/quote]
Yes, but that 1 out of 10 is the reason why the original generalisation is inaccurate.
[quote]
[quote][quote]26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words 'In five years, will this matter?'[/quote]
Why get distracted by the future, when there is only the now? Just do what feels right when disaster happens, and do not worry about it later.[/quote]
Thinking long-term is good advice, since there are concequences to every action.&nbsp; Though in this case she's talking about a way to turn a mountain back into a mole hill.[/quote]
You need time to think long-term. In a disaster situation, that is time you don't have.
[quote]
[quote][quote]27. Always choose life.[/quote]
Except when death is really preferable. If your suffering is unbearable with no hope of relief, death is worth considering.[/quote]
There's always a silver lining, always a reason to go on, even if it's not obvious at the moment.[/quote]
Not always. Try explaining it to a terminal cancer patient who is in terrible pain and has no more than a month to live anyway, even is the best circumstances. <_<
[quote]
[quote][quote]40. If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back.[/quote]
Even though it'd be more efficient to share your problems with those who have similar problems, and find the solution together. Sharing your problems gives other people the opportunity to offer advice that may help you.[/quote]
Seeing how bad others have it can often make our own problems seem smaller and easy to deal with.&nbsp; I&nbsp;know a guy, nice guy, but if I&nbsp;had to choose between our past problems, I'd take mine in a heartbeat.[/quote]
That's what people tell me when they hear about my past problems, too. :innocent:
[quote]
As for positive advice, hmm...&nbsp; how about...&nbsp; no matter how much love and support you may have, at the end of the day the only one who can fix or change things is you.
[/quote]

And here you accuse me of being dark... :innocent:

[quote]Nivraym wrote...

This thread makes me feel a bit warm and fuzzy inside.
I don't know if I hate it or love it yet.
But I'll stick around.

“You must be the change you want to see in the world.”
- Mahatma Gandhi [/quote]

That's a nice quote. Socrates would agree. See my sig.

[quote]Urgnu the Gnu wrote...

[quote]Nighteye2 wrote...

Not really. When life is bad, you should get up and do something about it, rather than give up and end it.[/quote]
Yeah, but still, live, living, is good. As opposed to not living. I didn't mean to say you actively support it, but it can be interpreted in that way.[/quote]

It can be, but it'd have to be twisted quite a bit...

[quote]
[quote]

Well, crying can give relief when you're sad, and make you feel better. It's functional that way. Especially when something happens that you can do nothing about - like a relative having died.[/quote]
Yes, indeed, I understand that. It's just alien to me as a reaction.[/quote]

You never cried? Have you lost any parents or grandparents yet?

[quote]
[quote]
Good question. Maybe the intent is to not let yourself be limited by social norms about how you should look or dress?[/quote]
But that is pretty possible without being generally eccentric. If you don't choose to be anti-social, you can always be yourself instead of being someone in the norm or not in the norm. "Eccentric", however, has negative implications, at least around here.[/quote]

The negative implication lies with not being 'normal'. People fear people who are different. It is the root of all racism, and the dislike of people that are called eccentric is no different.

[quote]
[quote]

I am against suicide, but not against euthanasia. Unbearable suffering with no hope of relief is literally what's written in the law about euthanasia. An example would be someone with an advanced stage of cancer, where doctors have given up treatment and are basically waiting for the patient to die - after weeks or months of suffering. I can understand if that patient would rather die quickly and painlessly.[/quote]
Hm... no, I'd rather not discuss that here, that's a bit to controversial for my taste.[/quote]

Fine with me. It should save a lot of arguments.

[quote]
[quote]

You don't forgive someone for their sake - you do it mainly for yourself.[/quote]
But that's not as much forgiving as making peace with the past.[/quote]

Forgiving is how you make peace with the past.

[quote]
[quote]
Even then, moods are infectious, too. A single depressed person can dim an entire room.[/quote]
But it should work the other way around as well. If moods are infectious, other people will "infect" you with joy as well.[/quote]

It does work the other way around too, yes - unfortunately, the effect is stronger with negative emotions.

[quote]
[quote]Maria Caliban wrote...
I recall once I was walking. It was dusk. The wind blew and the way the leaves on the nearby trees looked reminded me of the ocean; the branches and leaves swayed and rippled, and the trees all moved together as well, and I was captivated by the sight. My vision became very clear and could see the profusion of green and orange leaves both as thousands of separate parts and as a single moving thing.

When the wind blew again, I felt as though I were rippling along with them.

It would call it a peaceful moment, but I could also call it an energetic moment. It was like staring down a long precipice and balancing perfectly on the edge.[/quote]
That's beautiful. [/quote]


Very beautiful - it reminds me of a similar experience I once had, without any meds whatsoever.

[Ecaiki]

Nighteye2 wrote...

Dark? I'd rather call it realistic optimism. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png

Doesn't seem very optimistic to me.

It's not bad to agree to disagree, but it is the easy way out. Even if
it's perfectly understandable when you consider it not worth the effort
to reach agreement on a particular issue.

So just how do you get two people, subborn as mules, to change their positions on a given issue?  Especially if said issue has strong ties to their moral and/or ethical code?

Did you read my replies about this in the other posts? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png

Nope, should I have? :innocent:

The outcome of the check can be positive or negative. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png

Just going off how you worded it.

The present is always the best time to make amends. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png

Yes, but that 1 out of 10 is the reason why the original generalisation is inaccurate. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png

They are generalisations because they apply most of the time, so it's still accurate.

You need time to think long-term. In a disaster situation, that is time you don't have.

I doubt she meant literal disaster.

Not always. Try explaining it to a terminal cancer patient who is in
terrible pain and has no more than a month to live anyway, even is the
best circumstances. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

You like your extreemes, don't you.

I never said I was against euthanasia, however most people aren't in that kind of situation when they feel like the world is against them and all they can do is give up.

And here you accuse me of being dark... ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png

It's what the events in my life have taught me, nothing dark about it.  Unless you have problems accepting personal responsibility.

Edit: You didn't see me edit this.

Modifié par Ecaiki, 27 octobre 2009 - 11:42 .

[Urgnu the Gnu]

Nighteye2 wrote...

The outcome of the check can be positive or negative.

And if the government succeeds, you only take half income.

Yes, but that 1 out of 10 is the reason why the original generalisation is inaccurate.

I don't think it was as much a generalisation as, don't know, something to think about.

You never cried? Have you lost any parents or grandparents yet?

That's a fallacy. I never said that. However, as a reaction it is alien to me. As said, for the sake of it, I understand. And I also know that some do it, as a reaction. But when I heard of the heart attack of my father (he made it), I didn't cry but thought what to do. Apart from releasing stress - which you can achieve in other ways as well -, crying can do close to nothing for you.

The negative implication lies with not being 'normal'. People fear people who are different. It is the root of all racism, and the dislike of people that are called eccentric is no different.

Hm... no, I wouldn't say that. At least I'd say that eccentric has a sound of anti-sociality to it.

Fine with me. It should save a lot of arguments.

Well, you can tell me your arguments nonetheless. Or what do you have to save them for?

Forgiving is how you make peace with the past.

But I thought you thought the past wouldn't exist.

It does work the other way around too, yes - unfortunately, the effect is stronger with negative emotions.

So the quote appeals for getting infected with good mood.

[LadyKarrakaz]

Maria Caliban wrote...

This thread makes me miss my meds.

I recall once I was walking. It was dusk. The wind blew and the way the leaves on the nearby trees looked reminded me of the ocean; the branches and leaves swayed and rippled, and the trees all moved together as well, and I was captivated by the sight. My vision became very clear and could see the profusion of green and orange leaves both as thousands of separate parts and as a single moving thing.

When the wind blew again, I felt as though I were rippling along with them.

It would call it a peaceful moment, but I could also call it an energetic moment. It was like staring down a long precipice and balancing perfectly on the edge.

That's beautiful Maria. You were right to take your time before answering. Nature can be so soothing. 

[Torrius]

I'm not going to respond to everything in this post, it is too much. I feel like some of these "Devil's Advocate" responses to the original poster are a bit overly-critical. Yes, some of the positive expressions are a bit trite but when you start talking about how some of the suggestions could be dangerous, or they are over-generalizations that don't apply to all and there are exceptions, that crying and anger are good or bad... I don't know if you're giving the forums readers enough credit to assume they wouldn't know what the exceptions are.



Simplistic positive "truths" are never perfect, nor do they cover every situation... but that is obvious, isn't it? It has less to do with whether every 1 of the 45 remarks are correct, and more to do with the spirit of the remarks. I think we can "read between the lines" with what Purple Lady posted and understand the nature of the post, without nit-picking every line.



Personally, I think remaining positive in this life takes great strength of character. People who find beauty in life are beautiful people. People who can remain positive aren't disconnected from reality, they are strong-willed enough to survive what life throws at them and not lose themselves to pessimism or despair. Personally my favorite expression is "once begun, it's half done", as I believe the hardest part in accomplishing anything in this life is the first step. That expression has reminded me to not complain, worry, or get negative over the things that must be done, but to accept them and finish them.



Anyway, to the OP I appreciate the sentiment of this post. Nobody can take away optimism unless you let them. To be happy... you simply need to be strong-willed enough to be happy. Some will call it denial... I call it learning to live and survive.

[soteria]

Maria Caliban wrote...



How do you do that with your links? 

You have to use the hyperlink button in the standard posting form (not the quick one).  Or, use (url)(/url) with braces instead of parenthesis.



Uh, to the OP, #6... obviously she didn't frequent message boards online.

Suicide came up earler.  Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.  That's my snappy statement for the day.

Modifié par soteria, 28 octobre 2009 - 11:37 .