225 réponses à ce sujet

[thesuperdarkone]

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[Alienmorph]

Why? Find something interesting to say, or you'll just feed the trolls bumping similar threads. I'm not saying this intending to be rude, but it's the truth.

[xlavaina]

Yeah. Honestly I don't really have anything else to say at this point. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and thats that.

[TheodoricFriede]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

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Everything that can be said has. You dont like Tali. Oher people dont.
A massive sum of people do.

Most everyone agrees that the fact that she loves you if you treat her like crap in the first game sucks, but thats also the case with Garrus, Liara, and so forth.

Oh also she's too selfless. (How dare she) and hates the machines that killed a bunch of her people (Unacceptable!)

Can we be done now?

Modifié par TheodoricFriede, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:59 .

[Cammacdon]

Miranda's "booty cam" annoyed me a bit.But you could see it as a subtle joke referring to Shepard checking her out that thought made me chuckle. It could also be Miranda being her usual ruthless self trying to manipulate Shep with her looks. but then again, it could just be there because some marketing duffus thought it would sell the game better.



As far as I am concerned, almost all of the romances in ME seemed tacked on for "fanservice", You have to remember that most of the customers are adolescent boys.



Personally I think there should be no romance options unless its something relevant to the plot. None of the romances are necessary to the plot in the mass effect series, they only modify the tone of the dialogue in some places. compare that to KOTR where romancing bastilla could get her into trouble being a Jedi, or Dragon Age where romancing Morrigan could result in rosemary's baby. The only romance in the ME series that even implies this is the Female Shepard/Kaidan one.



As far as the asari go, I have the suspicion that they were originally intended to be completely asexual, Meaning that they simply become pregnant when they reach the appropriate stage in their life cycle. But they were changed into space lesbians for marketing reasons. It may seem unfair, but that's life. sometimes you just have to remember the last line of the Mystery Science Theatre theme song. "repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax."

[Rykoth]

I think the term fanservice should be banned. The whole game is a fanservice. Hell, video games are fanservice. If it weren't for the fans of video games, no matter if they are RPGs, FPS etc. ... there wouldn't be any.



And clearly since "Tali's fanservice" or "Miranda's fanservice" or "asari fanservice" aren't 100 percent approved of, its reasonable to say ME2 was fanservice in of itself.



Why is that such a bad thing, to make something for *gasp* the fans? I doubt ME2 woulda sold as well or been reviewed as superbly (and yes, the majority do like ME2 over ME1 despite the forum folk here saying otherwise) if they had completely spat in the face of the fans.



Romances should NEVER have anything to do with the main plot. Romances -should- be a subplot. I think whether or not Shepard romances Tali/Ashley/Miranda/etc. shouldn't have any bearing on the fight with the Reapers. Morale when going up against the Reapers? Consequences that indirectly affect the main plot? (i.e. Shepard/Tali affecting Tali's future as a quarian positively or negatively) Sure.



But it does not need to be a Morrigan. "Romance me, and we'll make a child that is destined to destroy the Reapers" sounds forced. Just like the Dark Ritual did - it wasn't the best plot, it was an easy out of a potentially tragic situation.

[Alienmorph]

The idea of making the chance to romance a fictional character is the essence of "Fanservice"... but if someone don't like the idea, simply he/she can choose to don't do it, or even to play with something else. The problem is why a fanbase of a certain character have to be treated like a group of idiots by the others? If I was interested in Miranda instead of Tali I won't open this kind of threads to attack the character liked by someone else (I'm saying this in general, not only about this specific thread). I really can't dig why I should spend hours of my freetime to try uselessly to disbandle the popularity of something I don't like. I find that much more ridiculous and pointless than being a hudge fan of a fictional character.

[Xeranx]

Rykoth wrote...

I think the term fanservice should be banned. The whole game is a fanservice. Hell, video games are fanservice. If it weren't for the fans of video games, no matter if they are RPGs, FPS etc. ... there wouldn't be any.

And clearly since "Tali's fanservice" or "Miranda's fanservice" or "asari fanservice" aren't 100 percent approved of, its reasonable to say ME2 was fanservice in of itself.

Why is that such a bad thing, to make something for *gasp* the fans? I doubt ME2 woulda sold as well or been reviewed as superbly (and yes, the majority do like ME2 over ME1 despite the forum folk here saying otherwise) if they had completely spat in the face of the fans.

Romances should NEVER have anything to do with the main plot. Romances -should- be a subplot. I think whether or not Shepard romances Tali/Ashley/Miranda/etc. shouldn't have any bearing on the fight with the Reapers. Morale when going up against the Reapers? Consequences that indirectly affect the main plot? (i.e. Shepard/Tali affecting Tali's future as a quarian positively or negatively) Sure.

But it does not need to be a Morrigan. "Romance me, and we'll make a child that is destined to destroy the Reapers" sounds forced. Just like the Dark Ritual did - it wasn't the best plot, it was an easy out of a potentially tragic situation.

I'm tired of that tag-line being bandied about like it's absolute fact.  EA shipped 2.1 million units.  The game itself sold 1 million plus and Bioware released that less than 50% of people who purchased the game actually finished it (some paraphrasing there).  So how this, in any way, constitutes a majority like ME2 (or don't...let's not try that angle either) is beyond me.

Proof is required.

[pprrff]

I want to just drop in and say that there isn't really any need to improve Tali, as far as fictional characters go, she is okay. That doesn't mean I like her or that she is not annoy, but that's more of a personal taste than actual flawed writing. Writers only need to make her character convincing, they don't need to make her likable or perfect. I mean you wouldn't complain that the writers makes the reaper look unsympathetic.

[Siansonea]

Here's my take on the "fanservice" issue. Fanservice is okay, I don't mind it, it takes nothing away from my game if I can avoid it. That said, there is a difference between good fanservice and bad fanservice. Good fanservice is when the fans' desires are used as a starting point for a really good story idea, and the story moves in interesting and unexpected directions as a result. Bad fanservice is just a regurgitation of the fans' stated intent with no imagination and a predictable outcome. I would say that probably all the romances fall under the umbrella term "fanservice", and they all fall somewhere in the middle of the good/bad axis. I would put Lair of the Shadow Broker as among the best implementations of fanservice, and the Garrus and Tali romances among the lesser ones. I am hoping that the continuation of Kaidan and Ashley's story in ME3 will be among the better implementations.



I really can't suggest any improvements to Tali. I accept the fact that the character was not written for me to like. Others may like her, and that doesn't affect my game. Even if they had a full-fledged stereotypical Talimancer fantasy face reveal feature where you could customize her face, it would still not affect my game or take away from the elements of the game that I enjoy. Hopefully everyone gets what they want out of ME3, we don't all have to want the same thing.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

I thought this thread was about Tali? Who cares about fanservice? Let's go back to Tali (a.k.a. my favorite subject)

[Siansonea]

Fanservice is a subject that comes up a lot in character threads, I think it is germane to the topic.

[Siansonea]

mrsph wrote...

You only complain about all the "fanservice" dedicated to Tali, Garrus, whoever because you don't actually like those characters. Just as I complain about the asari because I don't like the asari. The words fanservice and immersion are tossed around too much on these forums anyway.

Hell, I could probably remove Tali from the OP and replace it with Liara and it wouldn't really lose any meaning.

Yeah, you probably could. I think most people are more aware of fanservice when it is implemented in ways they dislike. The difference is that I don't feel a need to defend Liara or whomever just because someone else doesn't like her. Lots of people don't like my favorite characters, but I'm not they typical Mass Effect demographic, so it comes with the territory.

For my part, I think the word "fanservice" needs to lose some of the stigma associated with it. I think it shouldn't be automatically assumed to be a complaint or a disparagement when something is referred to as fanservice. Like I mentioned above, I really liked Lair of the Shadow Broker, but it has a certain amount of "fanservice" in it, given that many fans had asked for a continuation of the Liara romance. So yeah, it's fanservice in a lot of ways, but so what?

I think you simply want to be contrary with me because you know I dislike Tali. Yeah, I dislike Tali. It's legal in the USA to not adore Tali, last I checked. It doesn't mean we can't both enjoy the game, and it doesn't mean we can't have a meaningful discussion about the game and characters.

[TheodoricFriede]

Allow me to see if i understand this correctly Siansonea.

Not only are Tali fans not allowed to vote in polls (which has been brought up by...esteemed posters....)...but also not allowed to defend the character...

Anything else we aren't allowed to do?

Modifié par TheodoricFriede, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:17 .

[Siansonea]

TheodoricFriede wrote...

Allow me to see if i understand this correctly Siansonea.

Not only are Tali fans not allowed to vote in polls (which has been brought up by...esteemed posters....)...but also not allowed to defend the character...

Anything else we aren't allowed to do?

You can defend the character all you want. But you could be less defensive.

[Siansonea]

Double post. (How come I can't delete a double post?)

Modifié par Siansonea II, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:22 .

[Siansonea]

Hey Phantom, is the repair of an air-moving device intended for cooling the ambient temperature considered 'fan service'?

[TheodoricFriede]

Siansonea II wrote...

Hey Phantom, is the repair of an air-moving device intended for cooling the ambient temperature considered 'fan service'?

Um...Yes....

Im a fan of air-conditioning.

Im a fan of the man who fixes my air-conditioning.

Edit: Oh wonderful, that realization was not emberesing at all.

Modifié par TheodoricFriede, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:33 .

[Siansonea]

We could build a fence with all these double posts!

[Dean_the_Young]

TheodoricFriede wrote...

thesuperdarkone wrote...

bump for more discussions

Everything that can be said has. You dont like Tali. Oher people dont.
A massive sum of people do.

Most everyone agrees that the fact that she loves you if you treat her like crap in the first game sucks, but thats also the case with Garrus, Liara, and so forth.

Oh also she's too selfless. (How dare she) and hates the machines that killed a bunch of her people (Unacceptable!)

Can we be done now?

And wants to hide a war crime from her own people.

I think that rounds it out.

[thesuperdarkone]

I think the issue with the fanservice is that people who found Tali normal or dislike her are a bit flabbergasted that she is suddenly a LI with the Devs stating that the only reason she is a LI is because the fans demanded it and she wouldn't be otherwise. Tell me, why are there more Tali haters (I prefer Tali disliker XD) than Garrus haters. I think it's because some of her fans trolled other people who said she could be improved. Seeing as the Tali fanbase is the largest, I think that many trolls used the identity of a talimancer as an excuse to troll thus the permanent idea that talimancers are trolls. (Don't get me started on the blow up doll.......)