83 réponses à ce sujet

[VideoGameNerd]

Foxd1e wrote...

kaispan wrote...

as a stupid MMO healer, I would have to say I don't consider healing to be the most important part of groups--you can have an epic healer and a crappy tank and fail every time (admittedly depending on other variables as well). Now, if the tank is doing his job well, you can pass by with even mediocre heals (again depends on situation, but I am generalizing ).

I don't know how that transfers to non-MMO rpgs, or more importantly DA, but I pretty much agree with what's been said; the trash pulls not requiring any heals... although it sounds like the boss battles might be kind of intense, so that could go either way.

I'm probably going to at least 'minor' in healing just to reassure myself.

Yeah based on previous Bioware titles, I doubt this game will compare to wow much in the game mechanics. Bioware also stated in a earlier sneak peak of Dragon Age that having a Spirit Healer isn't essential but it helps. They basically showed off two games with different choices converging on the same boss fight. One group had Wynne and the fight was considerably easier, and the other group had something horrible befall Wynne (Me not spoil anything!) and group 2 had a tougher time and had to try different tactics.

Can you give us the link?! ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png

[xGruvdogx]

Every MMO has its own language. You said epic healer and as a non WoW player i could be wrong but I imagine "epic" would be a gear tier. just a guess =)

[Foxd1e]

VideoGameNerd wrote...

Foxd1e wrote...

kaispan wrote...

as a stupid MMO healer, I would have to say I don't consider healing to be the most important part of groups--you can have an epic healer and a crappy tank and fail every time (admittedly depending on other variables as well). Now, if the tank is doing his job well, you can pass by with even mediocre heals (again depends on situation, but I am generalizing ).

I don't know how that transfers to non-MMO rpgs, or more importantly DA, but I pretty much agree with what's been said; the trash pulls not requiring any heals... although it sounds like the boss battles might be kind of intense, so that could go either way.

I'm probably going to at least 'minor' in healing just to reassure myself.

Yeah based on previous Bioware titles, I doubt this game will compare to wow much in the game mechanics. Bioware also stated in a earlier sneak peak of Dragon Age that having a Spirit Healer isn't essential but it helps. They basically showed off two games with different choices converging on the same boss fight. One group had Wynne and the fight was considerably easier, and the other group had something horrible befall Wynne (Me not spoil anything!) and group 2 had a tougher time and had to try different tactics.

Can you give us the link?! ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png

Sure can!

http://www.gamespot....6&mode=previews

[GhoXen]

I think this thread's topic has long ago drifted from whether a spirit healer is necessary or not to whether a dedicated healer is necessary or not.



I for one too think that the game's combat mechanics is much similar to WoW, or other popular MMO mechanics than previous BioWare games: it uses a threat/aggro system.

[Brother Jayne]

katie916 wrote...

relhart wrote...

NWN 2 was a joke as far as difficulty went, I soloed it easily with a fighter/cleric. From all accounts this game is HARD, but yes I agree most people talking about no healer parties seem to conviently forget bosses, most trash fights I'm sure you can do pretty much anything you want and be fine.

least i dont feel alone on this part lol nw2 was so freaken easy other than the massive gliches and crashes after i updated lol ended up playing it wit out the patches

Oh my gods... you truly ARE brain damaged!
I withdraw my earlier insult, and apologise in a most humble fashion!

[kaispan]

rofl @ brother jayne

and in the spirit of drifting,

xGruvdogx wrote...
Every MMO has its own language. You said epic healer and as a non WoW player i could be wrong but I imagine "epic" would be a gear tier. just a guess =)

Epics are indeed a gear tier, but they are fairly common in the higher levels... if you are maxed level you better be decked out in epics or no one will touch you.   (and there are a variety of levels even within the epic gear =O)

In that post, however, I just meant it to point toward 'very skilled/geared/actually knowing how to play your character'

Ok, back on topic: I am starting to wonder after reading that link if I really want to have a healer now. As if it wasn't hard enough to decide on which race/character origin, now I keep rethinking classes and party formations...   I guess I will be dragging Wynne around for my first playthrough while I make up my mind.

Modifié par kaispan, 27 octobre 2009 - 11:53 .

[Kortok]

SyntheticC wrote...

Correction there, JMOR. He started that video with around 10 and the video only being 20 minutes (some dialogue here and there amidst the battle) he used all of them by the end.

Note that he was a terrible player though.  His party members were all attacking different targets.  Focus fire is the most basic combat strategy in thest types of games.

A spirit healer will not be needed, but I think it's a good idea to take a heal spell or two with mages.

[Tyrax Lightning]

GhoXen wrote...

The undead can smell your yummy brains, that's why backstabbing doesn't work on them. At least that's how I'd like to think.

The undead are immune to backstabs (& usually critical hits) because such attacks are designed to attack 'vital' points on a body for more severe damage. A good example bein a human body vital point of the throat, which holds both a VERY critical artery & the windpipe that connects our mouth to our lungs. Undead 'live' (for a lack of better term) via dark/evil magic, not on the workings of the body, thus undead have no vital point on their body to attack. Thus it makes sense as to why they cannot be backstabbed (& often critted) no matter how much of a snotrag this is for rogues. At least they're often flammable & rogues can carry torches!  (if only games would let rogues do this more often so rogues aren't severely disadvantaged vs undead)

For the origional topic, I seriously hope we are NOT pigeonholed into requiring Wynne, even if she does have the potential to be cool, cause I doubt i'm the only one that wants to check out ALL of the companions, & it'll be seriously harder to do this if we're pigeonholed into requiring Wynne to survive at all. (Leliana Morrigan Jowls aka Dog Shale Oghren sp?) See what I mean? So much awesomness to check out!

[Foxd1e]

GhoXen wrote...

I think this thread's topic has long ago drifted from whether a spirit healer is necessary or not to whether a dedicated healer is necessary or not.

I for one too think that the game's combat mechanics is much similar to WoW, or other popular MMO mechanics than previous BioWare games: it uses a threat/aggro system.

Aggro/Threat has been in games since the dawn of party-based rpgs, it's how the ai determines who is most important to attack in a party.

A gentle word of warning: All those who think they can tie a rope around the ai's legs and lasso them in with a beefy tank who has a lot of taunts and draws a lot of threat, this isn't an mmo and the AI is pretty intelligent when choosing it's victims so expect all your characters to occasionally come under attack no matter how well they manage their aggro or spam threat dropping abilities. Dragon Age seems to incorporate common sense ai

Modifié par Foxd1e, 28 octobre 2009 - 02:53 .

[GhoXen]

Foxd1e wrote...

Aggro/Threat has been in games since the dawn of party-based rpgs, it's how the ai determines who is most important to attack in a party.

A gentle word of warning: All those who think they can tie a row around the ai's legs and lasso them in with a beefy tank who has a lot of taunts and draws a lot of threat, this isn't an mmo and the AI is pretty intelligent when choosing it's victims so expect all your characters to occasionally come under attack no matter how well they manage their aggro or spam threat dropping abilities. Dragon Age seems to incorporate common sense ai

Nobody has played the game yet, and there is no statement on that. The general conception of aggro/threat system is dumb AI who love to get tanked/spanked, and I know a lot of RPGs in the early days in which the enemies used "closest in range" rather than aggro/threat to determine targets.

[Foxd1e]

Oh and the people complaining that the thread is diverting off topic, the original question has been answered a hundred times in a hundred ways already in this thread,



No you certainly won't need a Spirit healer to beat the game, but it will make the game easier if the rest of your group is orientated for max damage.



A good player capable of making sound tactical decisions will probably not have to use the spirit healer class at under any difficulty. I'm not sure on Nightmare but I have a pretty good guess that you can scoot by with a Mage that specs a few points into heals on Hard difficulty. Just plan to quaff plenty of potions as well since your mage will be DPS/Healing and you will need to have one of your party members drink a potion for a heal whenever they can spare a second.



A spirit healer is an extreme healer class and will make the game a lot easier for you just like any other extreme class does at what they do. Such as a Templar/Champion that specs completely Warrior/Sword and Shield talents. A character specced this way will demonstrate exemplary tanking skills and have excellent damage mitigation while being able to deal out moderately decent damage themselves.



Of course when you specialize to the extreme for your party you lose out on one thing versatility. You basically end up with a one-trick pony of a character if you will. Sure you now have an Awesome healer, that could heal your party through the thickest encounters with her eyes closed but she couldn't dps to save her life. So that's always there to think about. Extremes vs. Versatility and it's up to each of us to decide what works better for each of us.

[Silver Sparkle]

Lifeward, Groupheal all look good. I think its gonna be worth it to have a SH in the team.

Probably take wynne along.

[Foxd1e]

GhoXen wrote...

Foxd1e wrote...

Aggro/Threat has been in games since the dawn of party-based rpgs, it's how the ai determines who is most important to attack in a party.

A gentle word of warning: All those who think they can tie a row around the ai's legs and lasso them in with a beefy tank who has a lot of taunts and draws a lot of threat, this isn't an mmo and the AI is pretty intelligent when choosing it's victims so expect all your characters to occasionally come under attack no matter how well they manage their aggro or spam threat dropping abilities. Dragon Age seems to incorporate common sense ai

Nobody has played the game yet, and there is no statement on that. The general conception of aggro/threat system is dumb AI who love to get tanked/spanked, and I know a lot of RPGs in the early days in which the enemies used "closest in range" rather than aggro/threat to determine targets.

I dunno from some of the videos I watched, including Giant Bomb's lenghty quick look it seems to me the AI can randomly decide to retarget random characters. Which is definately pretty interesting and can be fun. Of course a warrior with decent warrior talents will make a juicy target to the easily taunted masses, but it's that extra layer of chaos that Dragon Age seems to throw in that makes everything a little more interesting.
Yes, I know what you mean about closest in range, I've played all sorts of rpgs over the last 2 decades of my gaming career and I have probably seen pretty close to it all.

[Bacchus22]

This is the original poster.

Being a Baldur's Gate tactical combat enthusiast, I plan on playing on hard or hardest difficulty setting.

From what I could gather from this thread, the DA:J 2d game, and other sources of information I came in touch with since 2 days ago, Spirit Healer will be needed to complete the hardest encounters in the game at the hardest settings.

I dislike Wynne therefore I will roll a Spirit Healer. My second Specialization is yet to be determined

Modifié par Bacchus22, 28 octobre 2009 - 03:18 .

[PorcelynDoll]

Wynne wears granny panties anyway. My 3rd or 4th play will be a SH. But she will have to accompany my ranger.

[Foxd1e]

Hey Bacchus you might want to give Wynne a try to make sure you abosolutely don't like her. Because it might be extremely hard/ or take forever to level up a spirit healer on Nightmare, the dude playing Mordacai in the Giant Bomb quick look seemed to be in over his head on normal. Right now it's all speculation though because I am not sure what party member choices you will have available to you at first. The dude playing Mordacai only seemed to have Alistair with him at level 5 and 2 temporary npcs. It will probably get easier for you Mid-to-Endgame though. But I'm sure by the time you're ready to take the Nightmare plunge much more information will be available and a dozen detailed guides will be at your finger tips.

[PorcelynDoll]

I'm not sure how play a sh or taking wynne would be different. You would have acess to the same abilities either way. Unless you mean it could be easier having a companion cast then you having to keep companions healed. You could always take Wynne along for a bit and see how she plays out then dump her if you don't like her.

[Silver Sparkle]

Well there is an exception. If you plan on playing with 3 mages you will have to recruit wynne.

[Foxd1e]

PorcelynDoll wrote...

I'm not sure how play a sh or taking wynne would be different. You would have acess to the same abilities either way. Unless you mean it could be easier having a companion cast then you having to keep companions healed. You could always take Wynne along for a bit and see how she plays out then dump her if you don't like her.

Are you refering to my post PorcelynDoll or Bacchus22?

I have nothing against Wynne or trying her in my party. The point I was making was that leveling a Spirit Healer for your main character might be tough till the Mid/Late game on Nightmare Difficulty. The reason being that your party options are somewhat sparse early game and if your character is going to focus on being a Spirit Healer they aren't going to be pumping out too much DPS throughout the game, this would have the most effect in the early to mid game levels when your party isn't quite fleshed out yet and your character hasn't grown into their second custom class. I could be wrong I just remember painful memories of leveling an Infiltrator on Mass Effect's Hardest Difficulty. I did a lot of save/reloading  but towards the Endgame everything paid off and I had one mean machine of a character 

Modifié par Foxd1e, 28 octobre 2009 - 04:25 .

[Bacchus22]

Well, as a SH to be, nothing prevents me from taking offensive spells for the first 7 or 14 lvls. My char would be just as effective as another type of mage.

I assume that all specializations are equally easy to unlock, so SH is a workable choice just like any other.

As for Wynne, the difference lays in the character of the NPC. I have enough of a RL mother calling me every other week not to want one following me around in a computer RPG

Modifié par Bacchus22, 28 octobre 2009 - 07:10 .

[aequitaz]

"Most companions also join the party with a specialization and are able to take one additional specialization, assuming prerequisites are met. However, there are specializations some companions will refuse to take" (DA:O Wiki)

So, do you think Morrigan will refuse to become a SH? Probably she will, maybe she even won't be able to do the trials --> "Becoming a spirit healer, however, is no simple matter. To gain the services of such benevolent and righteous beings requires that the mage earn their trust. Often this requires a series of trials to prove that the mage’s goals are as noble as the spirit demands" ...but I really don't want to have Wynne in my party (at least for the first playthrough).

If you play normal difficulty I'm pretty sure that the standard creation heals+pots will be sufficient. Dunno about hard/nightmare though ...

Modifié par aequitaz, 28 octobre 2009 - 10:25 .

[kaispan]

Foxd1e wrote...
Of course when you specialize to the extreme for your party you lose out on one thing versatility. You basically end up with a one-trick pony of a character if you will. Sure you now have an Awesome healer, that could heal your party through the thickest encounters with her eyes closed but she couldn't dps to save her life. So that's always there to think about. Extremes vs. Versatility and it's up to each of us to decide what works better for each of us.

um, hello! that's what dual-spec is for!!

...uh....oh wait, I keep forgetting where I am... X_x
(Foxdie--love the name, btw)

[Darkrhayne]

Well after seeing Team Spain get eliminated as a result of not having Wynne, I think the answer to the OP's question is yes, you need a healer in your party.

[Jamison77]

I must be the only one but my first play through, I will be the spirit healer. I'll have Sten, Lily, and Morrigan. I just think mages are natural leaders due to their high intellect and wisdom. RPing a bit here but if I were in Medevil times, I sure would listen to a person who is flinging around the elements like it was common.

[PorcelynDoll]

Foxd1e wrote...

PorcelynDoll wrote...

I'm not sure how play a sh or taking wynne would be different. You would have acess to the same abilities either way. Unless you mean it could be easier having a companion cast then you having to keep companions healed. You could always take Wynne along for a bit and see how she plays out then dump her if you don't like her.

Are you refering to my post PorcelynDoll or Bacchus22?

I have nothing against Wynne or trying her in my party. The point I was making was that leveling a Spirit Healer for your main character might be tough till the Mid/Late game on Nightmare Difficulty. The reason being that your party options are somewhat sparse early game and if your character is going to focus on being a Spirit Healer they aren't going to be pumping out too much DPS throughout the game, this would have the most effect in the early to mid game levels when your party isn't quite fleshed out yet and your character hasn't grown into their second custom class. I could be wrong I just remember painful memories of leveling an Infiltrator on Mass Effect's Hardest Difficulty. I did a lot of save/reloading  but towards the Endgame everything paid off and I had one mean machine of a character 

hehe yes I was refering to ye

That could prove true, but also wouldn't the monsters be less/easier at the lower levels? I personally wouldn't do my first run through as a SH but I would defenitly prefer healing compainions myself instead of the AI.