397 réponses à ce sujet

[wulfsturm]

David Gaider wrote...

We... think it looks better than the visuals in DAO?

Is that not obvious? I get that, in the absence of actually playing the game you might have already decided you don't agree, but I find this level of obtuseness a little baffling.

It's really not that surprising, humanity as a species tends to be pretty scared about change - be it good or bad.

[YoziMaiden]

I like the change in art direction, I must say it makes the whole game look a lot more "METAL."

[SufferingTormentDarkness]

wulfsturm wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

We... think it looks better than the visuals in DAO?

Is that not obvious? I get that, in the absence of actually playing the game you might have already decided you don't agree, but I find this level of obtuseness a little baffling.

It's really not that surprising, humanity as a species tends to be pretty scared about change - be it good or bad.

What? this isnt about fear this is about the obvious which is the Darkspawn were changed from fiendish monsters to human retextures with pearly white teeth

[Johnny Shepard]

magicwins wrote...

Do tell: Why? Why the complete redesign? What are you seeking to achieve with this art style that you could not with the first?

Just curious.

Well, the idé as I understand was to make Dragon Age look uniqe like no other gameseries before.
When you se a screen from a Fable game you directly know its Fable even if you havent played that Fable game before. If you se one from The Sims you know its a The Sims game. Kingdom Hearts, you know its a Kingdom Hearts, Grand Theft Auto you know is GTA aso.
But you se a screen from origins and you think it might be Dragon Age but it could also be another Wester RPG like Divinity or Rise or Gothic or maybe a new Baldur's Gate.
I think thats is the point of the new design, that anybody, even if they have played the game or not, should know its Dragon Age.

[wulfsturm]

SufferingTormentDarkness wrote...

What? this isnt about fear this is about the obvious which is the Darkspawn were changed from fiendish monsters to human retextures with pearly white teeth

That is your (biased) opinion. I so happen to like all of the changes I've seen so far, it makes everything look more dynamic and less borish.

[NightmarezAbound]

David Gaider wrote...

We... think it looks better than the visuals in DAO?

Is that not obvious? I get that, in the absence of actually playing the game you might have already decided you don't agree, but I find this level of obtuseness a little baffling.

 I think it comes from the change is scary, scary is bad, therefore change is bad thought train.
 A train that needs to be derailed.

 I have faith in the crew at BioWare myself, and when I first saw the  visual change I was like hmm interessting now I see it  after  times has passed and as we see more I like it more. I liked the gameplay footage we have seen, the visual change has made things... clearer less jumbled  than DA:O was at times.

[Johnny Shepard]

wulfsturm wrote...

SufferingTormentDarkness wrote...

What? this isnt about fear this is about the obvious which is the Darkspawn were changed from fiendish monsters to human retextures with pearly white teeth

That is your (biased) opinion. I so happen to like all of the changes I've seen so far, it makes everything look more dynamic and less borish.

wulfsturm is right. This is about fear of change.
Myself I have a hard time with change and its because I feel safe when everything looks like it always have.

[wulfsturm]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

wulfsturm is right. This is about fear of change.
Myself I have a hard time with change and its because I feel safe when everything looks like it always have.

Your glibness does you no credit.

[AlexXIV]

SufferingTormentDarkness wrote...

Seriously i thought she was killed?

What's with you people complaining about characters in the game and not even spelling them right? Not to mention you obviously didn't pay attention while playing as well.

[Knal1991]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

YoziMaiden wrote...

Don't be hating on the return of Captain Janeway.

Well said.

I was googling Captain Janeway becuase of what you guys said....

and  I never knew Kate mulgrew was voicing Flemeth.... That's pretty awesome!

(Note: ain't no trekkie, or else I wouldve known that, still I did watch that show when I was a kid, so it's pretty aesome to learn that

[Johnny Shepard]

wulfsturm wrote...

Johnny Shepard wrote...

wulfsturm is right. This is about fear of change.
Myself I have a hard time with change and its because I feel safe when everything looks like it always have.

Your glibness does you no credit.

It wasnt. I agreed with you. I really have a hard time with change.

[Blacklash93]

David Gaider wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...
There's obviously little respect for visual continuity but that's just something we're going to have to accept. Gaider's comments make that quite clear.

I think, from my perspective, the entire visual element of the game has been re-envisioned... and you want to tell me that the darkspawn teeth are where it breaks down for you? Really? Did someone fail to notice that the entire look of the rest of the game has also changed?

In that context, I don't mind that many things look different if all the changes are made at once. Barring another shift in the game's visual style I really doubt we'd be changing it again. And, really, so long as you can tell that a darkspawn is a darkspawn and a qunari is a qunari I don't see the big deal... especially if it makes things look better on the whole, which I think they do. Flemeth in particular looks awesome.

If someone wants to throw up a strawman that this means we'll have darkspawn using laser guns and suddenly nothing in the world makes any sense at all... well, knock yourself out. I think they're missing the forest for the trees, but that's hardly news around these parts.

I was talking more about the series in general, actually. From the books to Origins/Awakening mostly. Those are where the continuity issues I brought up lie. I probably should have pointed that out and took it out of the context of DA2. 

I never said anything about the darkspawn teeth and I understand what the new art direction means in DA2 so I'm not going to rant on the redesigns.

Qunari redesign? I'm fine with that. We have an explanation that may be a little shaky but its good enough. They look much better too so there's no reason to complain. Flemeth has a perfectly acceptable excuse to look different and I love her new Dragon get-up so that's also fine.

And since you asked, I just don't like the new darkspawn (hurlock) design. Plan and simple. Fangs... may have helped a little.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 03 janvier 2011 - 10:30 .

[Cobrawar]

The problem with the new art design is that they don't look like anything remotely from what we have seen in DAO and DAA. The artwork is so different, to the point no one really recognizes them for what they are suppose to be. Its takes the player out of the world you originally created and hence the illusion you are trying to create no longer exists.

[Negix]

Cobrawar wrote...

The problem with the new art design is that they don't look like anything remotely from what we have seen in DAO and DAA. The artwork is so different, to the point no one really recognizes them for what they are suppose to be. Its takes the player out of the world you originally created and hence the illusion you are trying to create no longer exists.

thats something that happens. see it like this: many franchises totally stagnate in their look (COD is a good example, it didn't change since about five games) and it really gets boring. changing the look often leads to many new experiences. always look at the bright side of life, youre already on the greener side and so on blah blah blah

[White_Buffalo94]

She is a shapeshifter, a master one at that, and is capable of changing her form to anything she desires.

Even in Origins Morrigan reveals she is probably not even dead when you kill her.

[Morroian]

Cobrawar wrote...

The problem with the new art design is that they don't look like anything remotely from what we have seen in DAO and DAA. The artwork is so different, to the point no one really recognizes them for what they are suppose to be. Its takes the player out of the world you originally created and hence the illusion you are trying to create no longer exists.

You can't make that claim without playing it. And besides given that its a new game with a mostly new cast I doubt its an issue anyway.

[Schneidend]

Cobrawar wrote...

The problem with the new art design is that they don't look like anything remotely from what we have seen in DAO and DAA. The artwork is so different, to the point no one really recognizes them for what they are suppose to be. Its takes the player out of the world you originally created and hence the illusion you are trying to create no longer exists.

I pretty much instantly recognized the darkspawn, Flemeth, and the Arishok. Though, with the Arishok my first words were "Uh...is that a qunari with horns or something?" The tan skin, white hair, and fierce eyes gave him away.

[Ziggeh]

Cobrawar wrote...

The problem with the new art design is that they don't look like anything remotely from what we have seen in DAO and DAA.

Well, that's not true for one. Though I suppose you could state "I don't see it", making it subjective, but I don't think that's what you're doing. I think you're being intentionally obtuse.

Cobrawar wrote...
The artwork is so different, to the point no one really recognizes them for what they are suppose to be.

I do. People above me did.

Cobrawar wrote...
Its takes the player out of the world you originally created and hence the illusion you are trying to create no longer exists.

Given this relied on the above, false premise, I probably don't need to write much here, but even if it where true, humans are pretty good at dissociation when it comes to seperate entities, so provided it's not actually within the same game that the art style shifts, it'll probably be all right. People actively expect change between games due to graphical improvements, this is only slightly different.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 03 janvier 2011 - 11:37 .

[Brockololly]

MerinTB wrote...

think of comics books and different artists. Because George Perez, Alex Ross and Michael Turner all have different styles doesn't mean that when each of them drew Superman that it was a "different" Superman.

My issue with the whole Hot Rod Samurai™ Retcon is that unlike most comic book shifts in art style where they might be stand alone stories or starting a new continuity, or even in movies where a new visual look accompanies a new director or reboot (think Joel Schumacher Batman versus Nolan Batman), the DA Hot Rod Samurai™ Retcon is supposed to maintain the continuity of the first game. At a glance I don't care for the look of DA2 that much as its far too over the top and hokey looking from what I've seen. It honestly doesn't look objectively "better" than what we had in Origins, just spikier and quite frankly like they're trying too hard to make it look "grim" and "edgy" simply by dumping buckets of blood on everything and tossing spikes and horns on things.

But I'm willing to give it a chance in the context of the whole game.

YoziMaiden wrote...

I like the change in art direction, I must say it makes the whole game look a lot more "METAL."

Thats precisely why I don't like it. Its hard for me to buy into a game where its supposed to be all morally ambiguous and nuanced when everyone has been redesigned to look like they stepped out of some fusion of Heavy Metal and 300.

NightmarezAbound wrote...
 I think it comes from the change is scary, scary is bad, therefore change is bad thought train.
 A train that needs to be derailed.

And not all change is a good thing either. Change can muck things up too if not handled with care.


More or less, I was expecting greater technical improvements in the graphical fidelity of DA2 which in turn would bring about a more clear expression of the art established in DAO. On a technical level the graphics look more or less the same (maybe DX11 will help?) And that any change in art style would be brought about as the series moved out of Ferelden and set up a new visual look in a new country. Thats fine.

My concern in part is that stuff from Origins that was well established, like old companions/NPCs, creatures or places won't be recognizable as they once were in the new art style. If no one had told me that the new Qunari were Qunari, I would have thought they were a new race. If Alistair shows up in a cameo or Morrigan or Zevran and you don't immediately recognize them, then whats the point? 

Having a drastic change in the look of everything just seems to break continuity with Origins, such that I wonder how much playing DA2 will feel like going back to Thedas and not simply playing a DA reboot or just starting some new fantasy franchise.

[Ziggeh]

Brockololly wrote...
unlike most comic book shifts in art style where they might be stand alone stories or starting a new continuity, or even in movies where a new visual look accompanies a new director or reboot (think Joel Schumacher Batman versus Nolan Batman), the DA Hot Rod Samurai™ Retcon is supposed to maintain the continuity of the first game.

Oh no, that's very common in comic books. Largely because the plot lines are fairly expansive and tend to ramble from one artists desk to the next. Heck, I've got graphic novels that switch artist several times. It's kind of a rule of thumb that the most cack handed one gets all the best bits.

edit: Aliens. Took me five minutes to think of a film example. The look of Aliens changes dramatically from one film to the next. There are common elements that hold them together (gieger, and the actors help) but the director's individual influences are easily seen. I can't think of many good franchises that change hands mind. I'll probably have a list in another five minutes.

edit edit: on the note of actors, it's bizarrely common for them to change during a franchise or tv series. Continuity is maintained through our capacity to disbelieve. As an aside, one of my favourite shows is Jeeves and Wooster (highly recommend it to anyone, but especially people who've never seen Hugh Laurie in anything other than House), and one of the actresses in that comes back in a different part and has scenes with the new incarnation of her previous character. That one stretches it a bit.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 03 janvier 2011 - 11:58 .

[AlanC9]

You're right, Ziggeh. I was just re-reading The Red King Syndrome the other day. The art shift in the middle of the collection is shocking -- though mostly because I really didn't like the new artist's work. But there was nothing going on there except that they went to a new artist mid-series, for reasons unrelated to anyting in the comic itself.



Hell, Marvel has guest artists all the time in their series.

[Brockololly]

Ziggeh wrote...
edit: Aliens. Took me five minutes to think of a film example. The look of Aliens changes dramatically from one film to the next. There are common elements that hold them together (gieger, and the actors help) but the director's individual influences are easily seen. I can't think of many good franchises that change hands mind. I'll probably have a list in another five minutes.

Eh....with Aliens though its not like you really had a clear shot of the the Xenomorph throughout all of Alien. And even then, for Aliens they didn't change the designs that much and the Xenomorph queen was part of the lore, so its not like all of a sudden they were green a purple polka dotted space alien teddy bears. The changes there were rather subtle and passed off in the lore.

As opposed to say the darkspawn in DA2 who you can still peg as being darkspawn or at least something thats been blighted I guess, but look a great deal different than how they looked in Origins. Of course whether you like the new look or not is subjective.

I'd just have rather they improved the graphics technically more and redesigned things to take better advantage of new tech to make them look better and tweak things- not just dump the baby out with the bathwater for the sake of having everything all Hot Rod Samuari.

[upsettingshorts]

Brockololly wrote...

not just dump the baby out with the bathwater for the sake of having everything all Hot Rod Samuari.

Why did you have to do that?  Now my head hurts.

[Ziggeh]

Brockololly wrote...

Eh....with Aliens though its not like you really had a clear shot of the the Xenomorph throughout all of Alien. And even then, for Aliens they didn't change the designs that much and the Xenomorph queen was part of the lore, so its not like all of a sudden they were green a purple polka dotted space alien teddy bears. The changes there were rather subtle and passed off in the lore.

Not just the aliens themselves (though they do change movie by movie), the whole visual style: lighting, use of colour, shot construction, camera movement. They're 3 (well, 6, but lets pretend those didn't happen) very different looking films.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 04 janvier 2011 - 12:28 .

[Ziggeh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

not just dump the baby out with the bathwater for the sake of having everything all Hot Rod Samuari.

Why did you have to do that?  Now my head hurts.

I was half way through an extended methaphor where bioware were prefering the look of the new baby, but I had to give it up.