306 réponses à ce sujet

[Maugrim]

Pwnsaur wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

I am not sure how reliable that info is though, it would not surprise me at all to find out that half the gaming community impulse buys nearly all their games and finishes very few of them.

The metrics - at least the ones they've shared with us - indicate precisely that.  Many many people don't finish either DA or ME2.

Pwnsaur wrote...

This isn't a reliable method of determining a players' enjoyment of any specific thing. 

Enjoyment?  No.  Use?  Yes.

If players simply don't take part in a romance plot, that would be reflected in the data.  So it either means they didn't know it was there, or didn't choose to take part in it.  

So, for Chris to cite this information to support his argument that only a small percentage of players really care about this feature is overstepping a bit... I think we both know he wants these two things to correlate, because he's inherently against the romance sub-plots. He's stretching his data a bit, let's be real here..

I actually doubt that Chris is streching the data.  And I recall romances not being a favorite of Chris's.  Lets take ME2 for example.  If only 20% play as a femshep that that means, at most Garrus, Thane and Jacob's romances can at most bee seen by 20% of the audience.  Even if someone was romanced everytime and the three leads split it equally that would average out to less than 7% each.  And that's not even accounting for the celibates, ME1 Romances or the Kelly/Samara alternatives. 

I just think the data would be interesting to see and was teasing Chris.

[Collider]

Maybe when Bioware doesn't put as much effort into the romances, I'd care about the prevalence of threads about them.

[Pwnsaur]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Pwnsaur wrote...

So, for Chris to cite this information to support his argument that only a small percentage of players really care about this feature is overstepping a bit...

No, I don't think so.  Unless you think he is deliberately lying.  And you're free to, but I'm not gonna think that.

Fair enough. I don't call him an outright liar for purposefully misinterpreting data to support his own bias... I would call that human. However, until a 'feature enjoyment meter' is included in every purchase of a BioWare game, I will not rely on someone elses' data to reflect my opinion on anything. Opinions are transient and fickle and any attempt to interpret them thus far has failed miserably.

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 04 janvier 2011 - 12:58 .

[Sharn01]

Liable****sman wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Yes but those people who impulse buy a game on a whim and never finish it still count against the tally of who participates in what during the course of the game.

So the data is invalid because "people who impulse buy are game" aren't real customers?
I bet BioWare earns just as much from their purchase, as from yours.

I respect your point, but it doesn't make any sense.

The impulse buyers are very valuable customers, but I think cool commercials and slogans like "hit a button and something awesome happens" are the best way to sell them games. 

[Liablecocksman]

Victia wrote...



One thing I would like to know is how many payers they have collected data on compared to how any copies sold

Interesting thought.

(I dont think they get stats on second-hand copies sold).

Of course BioWare will know when you sell your game to your cousin for a snackbar.
Jesus Christ.


But they will, for obvious reason, be able to distinguish IPs, and Xbox-users.

Just
out of curiosity to see what proportion of players of these games they
have data on. I know we will never know but would be interesting

I agree, that would be interesting to know - but what would be the point? BioWare will apply the statistics of their acquired data to the entire market, and not just the xx% they have information on

Pwnsaur wrote...

Fair
enough. I don't call him an outright liar for purposefully misinterpreting data to support his own bias... I would call that human
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie].
However, until a 'feature enjoyment meter' is included in every
purchase of a BioWare game, I will not rely on someone else's data to
reflect my opinion on anything. Opinions are transient and fickle and
any attempt to interpret them thus far has failed miserably.

That is all extremely irrelevant. Your opinion on how useful such data is, that is.
BioWare looks at their data.
"Oh, xx% found and did Morrigans romance, while xx% did Alistairs. Only xx% bothered doing the Queen of the Blackmarsh in Awakening"
Then they conclude that xx% of people enjoyed Morrigans romance, and so-and-so enjoyed Alistairs romance. In the end they even assume that the xx% that completed the Queen of the Blackmarsh are the same as those who enjoyed it.

You can attribute any data anything you want - but it is you purposefully making such statistics untrustworthy and misleading, when in truth they are anything but.

If you are claiming that people complete and take part in gameplay-elements that they do not enjoy, then... You know... Stop doing that.

Sharn01 wrote...

The impulse buyers are very valuable customers, but I think cool commercials and slogans like "hit a button and something awesome happens" are the best way to sell them games. 

I agree completely, and that's what they're doing too
But if BioWare is aiming to up their percentage of casual purchaser, they need to make their game cater more to such people too (Look how the game is more "action-rpg" this time 'round in their own words) and will need to cut focus of their resourcces in other areas (romances only experienced by a small minority of the players).

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:02 .

[kalassy]

Sharn01 wrote...

Liable****sman wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Yes but those people who impulse buy a game on a whim and never finish it still count against the tally of who participates in what during the course of the game.

So the data is invalid because "people who impulse buy are game" aren't real customers?
I bet BioWare earns just as much from their purchase, as from yours.

I respect your point, but it doesn't make any sense.

The impulse buyers are very valuable customers, but I think cool commercials and slogans like "hit a button and something awesome happens" are the best way to sell them games. 

HIT BUTTONS AND HOT GIRLS TAKE THEIR CLOTHES OFF!!!!!!


Remember the !!!!!!, it means you're srs.

[Maugrim]

kalassy wrote...

HIT BUTTONS AND HOT GIRLS TAKE THEIR CLOTHES OFF!!!!!!

Remember the !!!!!!, it means you're srs.

jonfvadsjnjvnKLNioh[weioh 4twe twe y8wey8[wefwe h;g sh;ge soh;shd shd sihds jn  h gdgwe ph tweph we oh fe ioh fefiohe ;f ioh;fd ih; fd h; fdfhd; fd h;fds j;fd ij fwe ij[ fwe j

.....wheres the girls?

[Victia]

[quote]Liable****sman wrote...

[quote]Victia wrote...


[quote](I dont think they get stats on second-hand copies sold).[/quote]

Of course BioWare will know when you sell your game to your cousin for a snackbar.
Jesus Christ.


[/quote]

LMFAO! I mean when you buy second hand games from CEX, Game, Gamestation, ebay etc etc! I am guessing that they are companies that do this accross the globe and its not just a british thing

[Liablecocksman]

makenzieshepard wrote...

jonfvadsjnjvnKLNioh[weioh 4twe twe y8wey8[wefwe h;g sh;ge soh;shd shd sihds jn  h gdgwe ph tweph we oh fe ioh fefiohe ;f ioh;fd ih; fd h; fdfhd; fd h;fds j;fd ij fwe ij[ fwe j

.....wheres the girls?

1. You've been reported.
2. There never were any girls. You have been had.
3. The false girls are independent women, they do not need your oogling eyes oogling them.
4.  Wait I can't say this one the false girls active in the thread and will see it.  Just fill in the blanks  _ _ _ _    _ _ _    _ _ _ _    _ _ _ _

Victia wrote...

LMFAO! I mean when you buy second hand
games from CEX, Game, Gamestation, ebay etc etc! I am guessing that
they are companies that do this accross the globe and its not just a
british thing ../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png

I figured, but the example still stands ;-)
BioWare has no way of knowing such, since stores like Gamestation are essentially buying the games of their costumers and selling it second-hand for profit. BioWare see none of that money, and since they don't, they have no data of second-hand sales.

You know, much like I doubt you would share your snackbar with David Gaider!!

BioWare could look at their DLC, and wonder "Wait, there is more DLC bought than copies sold..." but will not get any actual data out of doing that.

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:11 .

[RosaAquafire]

Would Evil Chris be as annoyed if there was a "I wonder what spec X character will be" post going up everyday?

[raziel3080]

Sharn01 wrote...

Liable****sman wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Yes but those people who impulse buy a game on a whim and never finish it still count against the tally of who participates in what during the course of the game.

So the data is invalid because "people who impulse buy are game" aren't real customers?
I bet BioWare earns just as much from their purchase, as from yours.

I respect your point, but it doesn't make any sense.

The impulse buyers are very valuable customers, but I think cool commercials and slogans like "hit a button and something awesome happens" are the best way to sell them games. 

Or better yet " Think like a General and Fight like a Spartan."... LMAO! 

Personally, I understand where Chris is coming from as well...as this is his job, but at the same time, I can't neccessarrilly agree with statements or assessments...but those are his feelings. I refuse to judge him based on he feels because it is the same as opinions and thought and I feel  we are all free to feel, and have whatever opinions about things that we want free of judgement. This is a little much with these romance threads...but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, people are worse than this in the mange/anime threads and chats/communities I frequently visit as well.

Modifié par raziel3080, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:13 .

[Pwnsaur]

Liable****sman wrote...

Pwnsaur wrote...

Fair
enough. I don't call him an outright liar for purposefully misinterpreting data to support his own bias... I would call that human
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie].
However, until a 'feature enjoyment meter' is included in every
purchase of a BioWare game, I will not rely on someone else's data to
reflect my opinion on anything. Opinions are transient and fickle and
any attempt to interpret them thus far has failed miserably.

That is all extremely irrelevant. Your opinion on how useful such data is, that is.
BioWare looks at their data.
"Oh, xx% found and did Morrigans romance, while xx% did Alistairs. Only xx% bothered doing the Queen of the Blackmarsh in Awakening"
Then they conclude that xx% of people enjoyed Morrigans romance, and so-and-so enjoyed Alistairs romance. In the end they even assume that the xx% that completed the Queen of the Blackmarsh are the same as those who enjoyed it.

You can attribute any data anything you want - but it is you purposefully making such statistics untrustworthy and misleading, when in truth they are anything but.

If you are claiming that people complete and take part in gameplay-elements that they do not enjoy, then... You know... Stop doing that.

We can agree to disagree about most of it, however the fact that any attempt to utilize opinion polls to determine anything has failed, is not an opinion. This is, much to our politicians dismay, a fact.

You cannot 'conclude' what value each individual places on a specific feature based solely on what percentage attempts and completes it. You can 'assume' that, but I hardly think that's a sound tactic to make a point. Until you can literally acquire the data, there can be no conclusion, only speculation.

And as far as doing something within a game that I didn't enjoy just to 'get it done,' of course I do! Who the hell doesn't slog through an unenjoyable portion of a game they otherwise love to basically 'check off an achievement.' There's this little thing called 'gamerscore' that has exploded....

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:16 .

[upsettingshorts]

Pwnsaur wrote...

We can agree to disagree about most of it, however the fact that any attempt to utilize opinion polls to determine anything has failed, is not an opinion. This is, much to our politicians dismay, a fact.

Nate Silver disagrees.

[Ziggeh]

Pwnsaur wrote...
We can agree to disagree about most of it, however the fact that any attempt to utilize opinion polls to determine anything has failed, is not an opinion. This is, much to our politicians dismay, a fact.

No, no that's not true. It's true they're using incorrectly far more often than not, but that doesn't render the practice entirely useless.

[Liablecocksman]

Pwnsaur wrote...



We can agree to disagree about most of it, however the fact that any attempt to utilize opinion polls to determine anything has failed, is not an opinion. This is, much to our politicians dismay, a fact.

I see...

How is this relevant? BioWare didn't send out a questionaire, they are simply being fed facts from the game.

You cannot 'conclude' what value each individual places on a specific feature based solely on what percentage attempts and completes it. You can 'assume' that, but I hardly think that's a sound tactic to make a point. Until you can literally acquire the data, there can be conclusion, only speculation.

I agree. I am assuming.

So are you.

You cannot say the statistics can be inherently "bad", if I cannot say they can be inherently "good". You see?



If you are now arguing that all statistics are useless, I would also disagree, but that is a whole other discussion.

And as far as doing something within a game that I didn't enjoy just to 'get it done,' of course I do! Who the hell doesn't slog through an unenjoyable portion of a game they otherwise love to basically 'check off an achievement.' There's this little thing called 'gamerscore' that has exploded....

Yes. So what!? If you didn't "enjoy" the task in itself, you "enjoyed" the gamerscore achievement, even if it was just to satisfy some sort of obsessive-compulsive side of yourself ;-)

[Pwnsaur]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Pwnsaur wrote...

We can agree to disagree about most of it, however the fact that any attempt to utilize opinion polls to determine anything has failed, is not an opinion. This is, much to our politicians dismay, a fact.

Nate Silver disagrees.

I think Nate Silver deserves a bit more credit than being called a 'pollster.' He analyzes everything from demographics to polls to statistics... His recognition was born from the inadequacy of polls as the determining factor in predicting outcomes. If polls were successful, he wouldn't have been revolutionary at all.

But awesome reference, my respect for you has increased tenfold. 

[Pwnsaur]

Liable****sman wrote...
You cannot say the statistics can be inherently "bad", if I cannot say they can be inherently "good". You see?

I am not denoting value one way or another. I am simply stating that data reflecting 'usage' is not data reflecting 'enjoyment.'

100% usage does not = 100% enjoyment.

For example, I can complete a chantry side quest and another side quest. While the data shows I completed both, the data cannot show that I enjoyed the chantry side quest more. So a statement like 'only a small percentage actually care about x feature' is attributing a level of attatchment to an otherwise impartial datum.

[Liablecocksman]

Pwnsaur wrote...

Liable****sman wrote...
You cannot say the statistics can be inherently "bad", if I cannot say they can be inherently "good". You see?

I am not denoting value one way or another. I am simply stating that data reflecting 'usage' is not data reflecting 'enjoyment.'

100% usage does not = 100% enjoyment.

For example, I can complete a chantry side quest and another side quest. While the data shows I completed both, the data cannot show that I enjoyed the chantry side quest more. So a statement like 'only a small percentage actually care about x feature' is attributing a level of attatchment to an otherwise impartial datum.

I agree with you.
But from where I was standing, it just appeared your were completely removing any correlation between the two, which I am quite certain would be rather unwise.

That appears to not (?) be the case, so please pardon my intrusion.

[Pwnsaur]

Liable****sman wrote...
I agree with you.
But from where I was standing, it just appeared your were completely removing any correlation between the two, which I am quite certain would be rather unwise.

That appears to not (?) be the case, so please pardon my intrusion.

No pardon necessary. I understand 100% why the relationship of the two is in fact important, and would expect the same response from anyone who thought I was overlooking it. I will try to be more clear in the future, thank you sir.

[BurtonSD]

Collider wrote...

Maybe when Bioware doesn't put as much effort into the romances, I'd care about the prevalence of threads about them.

This.

ITT: People complaining about something they're good at?

I honestly love the ability to romance companions, and to me its a pretty big reason why I replay DA:O. And I honestly doubt this would hurt the sales of the game because anyone with even half a brain could do a quick google search (heck go to the main site) and see that is not a dating sim. Derp. Paranoid people are paranoid. :/

Modifié par BurtonSD, 04 janvier 2011 - 02:16 .

[Jonathan Shepard]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Pitrus wrote...

I know I'm not the best informed member of this forum but I'm pretty sure that not all of those are confirmed companions. Would anyone care to enlighten me?

This.

Honestly, I am getting really tired of all these romance threads. You DO NOT know who the companions are yet let alone whether they are romances. Romances are one small optional feature for those who choose to persue them. Yet they get an inordinant amount of time and discussion space. When we have new people coming here to learn whether DA2 is a game they would be interested in and they see so many romance threads "Is X character a romance, are there s/s romances, I hope I can X romance, what happened to my DAo romance, etc" it actually starts to harm the sales of the game (for those who are looking for an action game, RPG or story based game and not a romance sim).

Yes, there is nothing against the rules about romance threads. I won't stop them or anything (within the usual rules, etc). Still.... it makes me tired.

I'd like a M/M romance with this guy.  
Just kiddin', but seriously? It's nice to know that even some of the moderators feel this way.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

kalassy wrote...

HIT BUTTONS AND HOT GIRLS TAKE THEIR CLOTHES OFF!!!!!!

I was in a scroll-doze and then I saw this.  :o:o

[ErichHartmann]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

kalassy wrote...

HIT BUTTONS AND HOT GIRLS TAKE THEIR CLOTHES OFF!!!!!!

I was in a scroll-doze and then I saw this.  :o:o

I'm sure 360 players wish the Kinect could interact with "romances". :innocent: /carry on

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 04 janvier 2011 - 02:24 .

[Tiax Rules All]

Damn Chris you really are evil... Romances by themselves are a option but Bioware Characters and personalities of NPCs are the main reason I have EVER played your games. Romances add depth and emotions to characters and add a ton of replayability for some too.



Your post was pretty rough dude.