306 réponses à ce sujet

[Felfenix]

WilliamShatner wrote...

BioWare games are DEFINED by three uniques features - full control over character dialog, companions and ROMANCE. If these three things were cut from a BioWare game they would be nowhere near as popular as they are. No one else does this. Alpha Protocol cames close but (and there just has to be a "but", doesn't it) they screwed it with their rubbish "dialogue stance" nonsense instead of letting us pick each response.

With BioWare games now stealing their gameplay from other sources and becoming more and more generic and homogenised with the lazy mainstream gaming industry ROMANCE is one of the last unqiue features they have.

it actually starts to harm the sales of the game (for those who are looking for an action game, RPG or story based game and not a romance sim).

Heaven forbid the romance scare off those action fans! As if they don't have enough games to play! BioWare games are frankly the only games we hopeless romantics can look forward to. I only hope DA2's romances are a big step up from ME2s which were awful.

According to your own childish argument, we have enough dating sims on questionable Japanese internet sites, but Heaven forbid we scare off the "romance" crowd. It's unfortunate that you're so belligerent that you perceive being asked to not clutter the ENTIRE forum with "I wanna have virtual sex with every NPC! That's what Bioware games are all about!" as some kind of threat to remove your little "romances" from the games. A couple suggestive lines of dialog and a cheesy scene.are not some kind of integral pillar of Bioware games.

Modifié par Felfenix, 04 janvier 2011 - 08:58 .

[Felfenix]

FieryDove wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Bioware literally has metrics that tell them what their players are doing with their games - unless the players specifically opt out of them in the ingame settings or play them on platforms without internet connections.

I don't upload that data. If it said exactly what gameplay feedback they were  getting I might consider it.

Of course it has nothing to do with the fact that if it told them how many times I played DAO a bell might go off somewhere and they might come get me...

I know a simple solution, David, Stanley and Chris for LI's in DA3. Then there were most likely only be three major gush/speculation threads. (That won't help with DA2 but its worth a thought).

or

Make a Companion subforum and abandon it to the masses.

If you're complaining the metric data shouldn't be counted because you refuse to let them get it from you, then it's your own fault for not letting yourself be counted. Actions and proof speak louder than raving shouts on an internet hole in the wall. Bioware looks at the hard data of the people playing their games, and don't make their decisions on a couple of fanatical forum regulars who try to argue they're the majority, contrary to the data.

[The Gentle Ben]

Chris Priestly wrote...

kya169 wrote...
Sorry to hear that, Chris.  Its still a huge interest to a very small, but incredibly hardcore and rabid segment of the fan base though.

Fixed that for you.

Hmm, you really want to go to war don't you? (Not with me, the depraved, armorphous and ravenous being that is the forum) I will agree that I find the romance threads/speculation a trifle overdone. I also acknowledge that in your position (job/responsibility) I can easily understand resenting the rather excessive focus that romances receive. However, as you have resorted to one of my most reviled tactics of argumentation, marshalling the spectre of unknown statistics behind your banner (the bane of high-school debate classes everywhere), I feel obliged to take the field.

yes I do have stats to back up this claim, but no, I am not sharing them).

I would question if these are the self-same statistics that indicate that the large majority of players only played the human origins, and never completed DA:O (and if so, what conclusions you drew from those findings?), but in actuality my stance is not based on demographics (I understand why yours might be). I've stated my philosophy on "in-game" romances before, if you're going to have an NPC interactive, party-based game it's just good storytelling. I would also suggest that part of the prevalence of romance threads results from the likelyhood that romances are probably (for better or worse) one of the easier "features" (particularly in light of limited information) to discuss and speculate about.

I do feel that romances could be put to better use. DA:O without a doubt (for once I won't hedge) suffered from completion syndrome (so... we're sleeping together, now what? I argued in the days before Origins that some means should be attempted (perhaps it's not feasible, but if it is, I think it has narrative value) to integrate romances into the larger plot). A longer, more linear narrative can mitigate this to a large extent. As a general (but related) aside, I would also advocate not allowing conversation with characters unless they have something new to say (which should be as frequent as limited resources and plot developments deem feasible, or alternatively compensated for and agumented by heavy use of situational triggers). Resources willing (as always), this seems an advantage of the cinematic approach (Have potential scenes within the plot progression tied to the state of relationships).

As an addendium, I do acknowledge that there seems to be an expectation (and request) of features (particularly related to romance) within the forum that border perilously close to demands. I will always strongly maintain that it is the perogative of the writers to write the story they wish to write, with the characters (whatever race they might be) they believe best suited to contribute to their plot (advocation backed by reason is one thing, demands are rather unseemly and often counter-productive). Despite what some seem to believe, DA2 is Bioware's game to make as they deem fit.

Modifié par The Gentle Ben, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:47 .

[FieryDove]

Felfenix wrote...

If you're complaining the metric data shouldn't be counted because you refuse to let them get it from you, then it's your own fault for not letting yourself be counted. Actions and proof speak louder than raving shouts on an internet hole in the wall. Bioware looks at the hard data of the people playing their games, and don't make their decisions on a couple of fanatical forum regulars who try to argue they're the majority, contrary to the data.

Who said I was complaining? I suggest you chill out and stop being so nasty with everyone.

Just because I don't upload my data doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. Heck it might even be on as default so most don't even know. I don't care.

I was joking when I said a bell going off...humor, you should try it sometime.
Eh...nevermind...

[Chaia]

wwwwowwww wrote...

I have to agree with Chris on this, I myself get sick of all the romance threads. After a while it just starts to seem like a lot of lonely people looking for a game to supplement something they are missing in their life. A few now and then are ok, but some of the obsessions have just gone overboard and it's a big reason why I personally don't frequent the forum as much as I used to.

**note: this is my opinion and is not meant to offend anyone, but it is also not debatable because it is an opinion.

This is also why I don't really bother with the Mass Effect forums, poke your head in there for 5 minutes and everything is Tali time with the Talimancers running screaming at you in a large horde if you dare meantion that you've romanced anyone apart from her; and Heaven forfend you liked anther romance option better then her! (then agin they've might have calmed down a tad since I last dared venture there, like I said I haven't been to the ME forums for a while)

PureMethodActor wrote...

yet another note: I actually haven't seen really any Aveline romance threads myself. Perhaps its because I haven't looked, but yeah...

While I don't particularly want to see yet anther 100+ page romance thread (although I can see anther one on the horizon when they release anther male companion) I do feel a little sorry for the poor gal, Fenris was only announced like 19 odd days ago and his thread has gone well past the 200 page mark, while she was announced sometime near the beginning along with Varric (and I think he, and "his chest hair," has the largest thread going on the DA2 forum)

Modifié par Chaia, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:27 .

[Grommash94]

I've always felt that one major reason as to why Dragon Age was so successful was because its characters were realistic, and helped immersion. Romance played a part in this. Because with romance with a companion comes more character depth in general. That's just my two cents though.

[Maria Caliban]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

What if there are no LI's..........

Isabela was already confirmed.

[Felfenix]

FieryDove wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

If you're complaining the metric data shouldn't be counted because you refuse to let them get it from you, then it's your own fault for not letting yourself be counted. Actions and proof speak louder than raving shouts on an internet hole in the wall. Bioware looks at the hard data of the people playing their games, and don't make their decisions on a couple of fanatical forum regulars who try to argue they're the majority, contrary to the data.

Who said I was complaining? I suggest you chill out and stop being so nasty with everyone.

Just because I don't upload my data doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. Heck it might even be on as default so most don't even know. I don't care.

I was joking when I said a bell going off...humor, you should try it sometime.
Eh...nevermind...

Well, that's why I used the word "If". Maybe you should read, or maybe even think, before posting, or do you like just visiting here to roll your face on the keyboard as if this were your blog?

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Chris Priestly wrote...

kya169 wrote...
Sorry to hear that, Chris.  Its still a huge interest to a very small, but incredibly hardcore and rabid segment of the fan base though.

Fixed that for you.

A freaking men. The character threads just make me...ugh I can't even think about it.

[Maria Caliban]

YuniSticksitDeep wrote...

I  weep for the future.  Was chris here for Dragon's Age Origins? DId he check the Romance threads  then?  Can  ANYONE   point me to a "blue"'s equally antagonistic remark from the Pre Dragons Age Origin threads??      Anyone at all?

Yes, he was here. Yes, he said the exact same thing prior to Origin's launch. In fact, he's said the same thing prior to ME 2 and ME 1.

No one listened to him then either.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Bioware literally has metrics that tell them what their players are doing with their games - unless the players specifically opt out of them in the ingame settings or play them on platforms without internet connections.

Bingo. Ever since some of ME2's was released, I've hoped they'd share some for DA:O. We have some information from the developers, but I'd be interested in the figures.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:57 .

[Maria Caliban]

David Gaider wrote...

I find romance threads harmless. Mostly.

Just keep it in your pants, people.

They mostly come at night.

Mostly.

[Milana_Saros]

*sigh*



I had written a long post about this subject last night but decided not to post it since people have a habit of calling you a fangirl the minute you say something in favor of the devs. However I have a fever and am stuck indoors so here goes anyways:



It's not really about people caring and discussing the romances. But going overboard with it. When ME3 teaser trailer was released, I watched it and went "Woah, that's pretty cool" and my attention was directed into the fact that it happened in Earth and the sniper seemed like an Alliance soldier, yay! But then I go to take a peek at the forums and what's going on? People speculating about "Big Ben", if they can romance him and how hot he is. Making banners to add to their sigs. Like WTF? Seriously. That's the only thing that came to their minds from the trailer? I can only imagine how the devs would feel after reading these reactions.



It's a little like me working in a newspaper. I aimed at speed and efficieny, I used a logical pattern when assembling the paper so we got it into press early and with no fuss. Then some other employee starts to nitpick about the look of the paper, how it always looks the same. She wanted to start stuffing pictures into weird, illogical places and randomize the look of the paper. I didn't get it. To me, the point was to deliver news in an understandable, logical fashion and do my job efficiently. She wanted to nitpick small details that in the end, don't mean **** when considering how people read the paper and what they actually should care about.



It isn't the same but the principle is the same. Baldur's Gate was the first fantasy RPG I ever played. Many many years later I'm still in love with fantasy RPGs, all thanks to that one game. Do people praise it for the romances? No. They praise it for the story, the art design, the UI and the characters overall. And no, Minsc was not romancable. Neither was Boo. And still people were completely in love with the game.



Now the first thing people obsess about is the romances. They even start critisicing (sp?) the game based on them. And these threads fill the first pages of nearly every discussion section. Nothing harm in discussing them but a decrease in the zeal would be welcome. I've attended romance discussions myself, my intention is not to be a hypocrite and say that romances should be gone. My point is that people shouldn't turn these games into a dating sim cos' quite frankly...it's a tad of an insult to the games. ME2 was a very enjoyable sci-fi RPG/shooter even without the possibility to continue my Kaidan romance. I was dissapointed, but I didn't let it completely destroy my ME2 experience.

[iEthanol]

Chris Priestly wrote...

kya169 wrote...
Sorry to hear that, Chris.  Its still a huge interest to a very small, but incredibly hardcore and rabid segment of the fan base though.

Fixed that for you.

I couldn't agree more. It's a shame so much of the online community has began to call Bioware games Date Simulators.

Haven't tried it yet and I don't plan on. It just feels like a waste of time. Unless the romance options starts offering perks such as weapons or armor, no thanks.

Modifié par iEthanol, 04 janvier 2011 - 11:43 .

[Selene Moonsong]

scyphozoa wrote...

I for one would love to see a new Bioware game that doesn't feature love interests. I would rather have a few additional hours of content and plot points than the option of love interests. Just my selfish preference.

I believe it was David Gaider who suggested that the cost is rather low regarding including romances, and to suggest that not including romances would significantly increase other content aspects is is a fallacy, it would not.

The reason the cost is rather low seems rather simple from my perspective, since they still need to create the NPCs and develop them as believable characters to flesh them out. It simply wouldn't take that much more to develop some of them as romantic interests, especially when one considers that you would still need to garner favor or earn disfavor to gain or lose loyalty. Without fleshing out a character, the companions end up nothing more than a walking set of stats to accomplish things your character cannot do because he or she isn't a particular class or does not have have the talents or skills to accomplish something.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 04 janvier 2011 - 12:15 .

[SkittlesKat96]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Pitrus wrote...

I know I'm not the best informed member of this forum but I'm pretty sure that not all of those are confirmed companions. Would anyone care to enlighten me?

This.

Honestly, I am getting really tired of all these romance threads. You DO NOT know who the companions are yet let alone whether they are romances. Romances are one small optional feature for those who choose to persue them. Yet they get an inordinant amount of time and discussion space. When we have new people coming here to learn whether DA2 is a game they would be interested in and they see so many romance threads "Is X character a romance, are there s/s romances, I hope I can X romance, what happened to my DAo romance, etc" it actually starts to harm the sales of the game (for those who are looking for an action game, RPG or story based game and not a romance sim).

Yes, there is nothing against the rules about romance threads. I won't stop them or anything (within the usual rules, etc). Still.... it makes me tired.

I never really understood the obsession with romances in Bioware games and why the Dragon Age forums are full of people obsessed with it (though I do pursue them in all Bioware games.)

I'm guessing the people who like reading like romance because it's in a lot of novels, and they like Bioware games because they have romance and stories in it plus you get to role play as your own personality and character and for some reason they like using internet forums? I don't know lol.

[tmp7704]

scyphozoa wrote...

I for one would love to see a new Bioware game that doesn't feature love interests. I would rather have a few additional hours of content and plot points than the option of love interests. Just my selfish preference.

Wouldn't presume it'd work out like that -- see Awakening. No romances there, very little dialogue with companions at all for this matter. Hardly helped to extend the plot and content, did it...

[Chaia]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Chaia wrote...

PureMethodActor wrote...

yet another note: I actually haven't seen really any Aveline romance threads myself. Perhaps its because I haven't looked, but yeah...

While I don't particularly want to see yet anther 100+ page romance thread (although I can see anther one on the horizon when they release anther male companion) I do feel a little sorry for the poor gal, Fenris was only announced like 19 odd days ago and his thread has gone well past the 200 page mark, while she was announced sometime near the beginning along with Varric (and I think he, and "his chest hair," has the largest thread going on the DA2 forum)

In that case, I'll brave the DA2 forums and find Aveline threads to see what kind of craziness, if any, is present

lol then good luck PureMethodActor, your a brave, brave man!

[Pwnsaur]

I'd say this topic could be resolved in a few sentences...



If romance plots within the game bother you... don't play them.

If romance plots within the game interest you... enjoy them.

If romance threads bother you... don't read them.

If romance threads interest you... enjoy them.



People are different. Opinions are different. BioWare is big enough to accommodate both camps in this issue, so extended posts dictating the value of one side or the other is futile. The game will be awesome, and that's the point.

[YohkoOhno]

The big problem is not so much the existence of romances but, like Chris said, the OVER emphasis of them.



This reminds me of the so-called "shipping" phenomemon, which can be explained here.



http://en.wikipedia....hipping_(fandom)



In some cases, I think people who become more fans of a specific relationship (especially in a game where you have many choices) can have a negative affect on both forums and the overall development. Note that link shows what types of negative effects it can have. Like Chris said, it's a small part of the overall game experience. It's not the existence of the romances that's the problem, it's fans over-emphasizing what is a small part of the game.



I've seen it here, with people saying "Morrigan's story isn't done" if the Warden romanced her, etc. I think Dragon Age: Origins ended on a satisfying note, even if there were hints of other adventures or some loose ends.

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

Pwnsaur wrote...

I'd say this topic could be resolved in a few sentences...

If romance plots within the game bother you... don't play them.
If romance plots within the game interest you... enjoy them.
If romance threads bother you... don't read them.
If romance threads interest you... enjoy them.

People are different. Opinions are different. BioWare is big enough to accommodate both camps in this issue, so extended posts dictating the value of one side or the other is futile. The game will be awesome, and that's the point.

Truer words have never been written in this network. I couldn't agree more.  Too many people in this forum have argument on titbids like this and i beleive these argument are silly and childish.

I think there is a quote that fits right into this:
"if one person is of one opinion and a million of a contradictory opinion. They are no more justified to silence him as he is to do so to them."

[FellowerOfOdin]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Pitrus wrote...

I know I'm not the best informed member of this forum but I'm pretty sure that not all of those are confirmed companions. Would anyone care to enlighten me?

This.

Honestly, I am getting really tired of all these romance threads. You DO NOT know who the companions are yet let alone whether they are romances. Romances are one small optional feature for those who choose to persue them. Yet they get an inordinant amount of time and discussion space. When we have new people coming here to learn whether DA2 is a game they would be interested in and they see so many romance threads "Is X character a romance, are there s/s romances, I hope I can X romance, what happened to my DAo romance, etc" it actually starts to harm the sales of the game (for those who are looking for an action game, RPG or story based game and not a romance sim).

Yes, there is nothing against the rules about romance threads. I won't stop them or anything (within the usual rules, etc). Still.... it makes me tired.

You are my personal hero, good sir.

Judging from the forums, Dragon Age 2 might be a dating simulator.