306 réponses à ce sujet

[drahelvete]

If they're afraid that all the talk about companions and relationships are going to scare potential customers off, couldn't they just create a Dragon Age II Companions forum for threads like this or would that be too much work?

Modifié par drahelvete, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:03 .

[Wittand25]

Another possible solution could be that upon announcement someone from Bioware creates a new group and only posts a link to the group here with a sticky. That way it would become easier to talk about them other then their romance (It is impossible to talk about Fenris right now because of the madness that is his thread) and it would also be easier to upload fan art for those who are into it.

There could also be just one generally for the various discussions regarding romances.

[crimzontearz]

as a customer service person in my company (which I know is not the same as what you do Chris, but it puts me in contact with our customer base) if I had said something along the lines of your post about OUR product and the way our customers are discussing it among themselves I'd either been written up or given a final warning. You think someone with the Bioware logo saying he HATES part of the game Bioware makes does NOT hurt sales?

[SirOccam]

The Gentle Ben wrote...

I would question if these are the self-same statistics that indicate that the large majority of players only played the human origins, and never completed DA:O (and if so, what conclusions you drew from those findings?), but in actuality my stance is not based on demographics (I understand why yours might be). I've stated my philosophy on "in-game" romances before, if you're going to have an NPC interactive, party-based game it's just good storytelling. I would also suggest that part of the prevalence of romance threads results from the likelyhood that romances are probably (for better or worse) one of the easier "features" (particularly in light of limited information) to discuss and speculate about.

I do feel that romances could be put to better use. DA:O without a doubt (for once I won't hedge) suffered from completion syndrome (so... we're sleeping together, now what? I argued in the days before Origins that some means should be attempted (perhaps it's not feasible, but if it is, I think it has narrative value) to integrate romances into the larger plot). A longer, more linear narrative can mitigate this to a large extent. As a general (but related) aside, I would also advocate not allowing conversation with characters unless they have something new to say (which should be as frequent as limited resources and plot developments deem feasible, or alternatively compensated for and agumented by heavy use of situational triggers). Resources willing (as always), this seems an advantage of the cinematic approach (Have potential scenes within the plot progression tied to the state of relationships).

As an addendium, I do acknowledge that there seems to be an expectation (and request) of features (particularly related to romance) within the forum that border perilously close to demands. I will always strongly maintain that it is the perogative of the writers to write the story they wish to write, with the characters (whatever race they might be) they believe best suited to contribute to their plot (advocation backed by reason is one thing, demands are rather unseemly and often counter-productive). Despite what some seem to believe, DA2 is Bioware's game to make as they deem fit.

Cannot agree with this post more.

I don't understand people who don't like the romances. It doesn't have to be romance per se, but there has to be some kind of relationship development between the main characters in order to give the story (and the characters) some depth. Otherwise it's just some one-dimensional hero slaughtering bad guys and then the game is over. I guess some people might be into that, but I am not. If we're to have companions at all, then the interplay of all those different personalities should have an effect, either on the plot, on the PC, or preferably both. As Ben says, it's just good storytelling.

I also agree about romances affecting the plot more. It felt a little hollow after the romance was consummated. The various LIs rarely talked to you about in-game events (the only time I can think of off-hand was Alistair confronting you about the outcome of the Redcliffe decision, but that happens regardless of romantic status). There were a multitude of times I felt like my character would want to talk to someone about decisions made and events occurring, such as my City Elf returning to the Alienage to find his father kidnapped by Tevinter slavers. Or a Human Noble after having confronted Howe (either that first time in Denerim or the last time in the dungeons). And so on.

The character threads do get out of hand a bit, though. It's fun to speculate about who the character is, what his or her backstory might be, what his or her personality might be like, who provides the voiceover, and yes, whether or not he or she might be romanceable. And a bit of excessive excitement manifesting as squees never hurt anyone. But then they go a little off the deep end.

[Reidbynature]

If there are romance quests or subplots in DA2 then I hope they feel a lot more meaningful than last time round. It felt like I had to jump through hoops with some mediocre dialogue and mini quests to just get a 'reward' and then it more or less ended there from my opinion. I want the relationship itself to be important and not just feel like a stat check against my answers so they get past the hand holding stage. Plus I'd really like to feel like the relationship still meant something in the game once it reached that stage and not simply drop off.



Also if you are going to add a sex scene then it just seems to me to be more mature and straightforward to have nudity as opposed to some odd looking textures for bras and knickers. I mean DA:O had sexual encounters with various npc's just for a laugh. Clearly maturity went out the window with that one. Dragon Age is after all an 18 rated game and not just marketed as one, but one that embraces violence and sexuality (however maturely is debatable at times though lol).

[maselphie]

We barely have anything to discuss about the game since they're holding information so close to their chest. Romance is easily discussed. The only time this forum isn't going to reflect the human's basic nature to care about other humans is when we have an actual game in our hands to talk about. Right now, all we have are fears that the game will change functionality, and characters.

Methinks the devs are getting bitter by hanging out the forums, and should probably take a break. If you want to know how we really feel about it, you should probably poke your head in after we've actually played it.

Modifié par maselphie, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:50 .

[Eclipse_9990]

You know looking at all these threads one has to wonder.. Why are people so damn obsessed with romance?

[maselphie]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

You know looking at all these threads one has to wonder.. Why are people so damn obsessed with romance?

Human ... nature ...

[Herr Uhl]

maselphie wrote...

Methinks the devs are getting bitter by hanging out the forums, and should probably take a break. If you want to know how we really feel about it, you should probably poke your head in after we've actually played it.

His job is to hang out on the forums. Among other things.

[tmp7704]

Herr Uhl wrote...

His job is to hang out on the forums. Among other things.

obligatory

[M8DMAN]

Chris Priestly wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

This just in...Priestly hates romance subplots!

Yes, I do and have said this before.

Well it is Bioware's fault that romances have become so popular.

Modifié par M8DMAN, 04 janvier 2011 - 02:02 .

[snfonseka]

maselphie wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

You know looking at all these threads one has to wonder.. Why are people so damn obsessed with romance?

Human ... nature ...

^This. But don't expect a good romance sub-plot from DA2. I think it will be a crappy romance sub-plot just like in DA:O. Then again, just like Chris mentioned before we are not going to play DA2 because of the romance sub-plot.

[Reidbynature]

Pwnsaur wrote...

I'd say this topic could be resolved in a few sentences...

If romance plots within the game bother you... don't play them.
If romance plots within the game interest you... enjoy them.
If romance threads bother you... don't read them.
If romance threads interest you... enjoy them.

People are different. Opinions are different. BioWare is big enough to accommodate both camps in this issue, so extended posts dictating the value of one side or the other is futile. The game will be awesome, and that's the point.

Um... option B.  I think I'll take option D next playthrough.  Oooh this is fun.  This feels familiar.  Do you write for Bioware by any chance? 
 

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

You know looking at all these threads one has to wonder.. Why are people so damn obsessed with romance?

Your post is new and refreshing.  Thanks.

[tmp7704]

scyphozoa wrote...

As for Awakening, I'm not willing to consider Awakening a full game as I am under the impression it did not have the budget or resources of a full project.

I consider it, together with DA2, more of a sign where the development is heading -- when the corners are being cut to minimize the cost and games are pushed out as fast as possible, having some of these corners cut doesn't really result in anything extra being added to other parts of the game "instead" of these trimmed bits. You just wind up with smaller product overall, though with the same price tag.

[maselphie]

Herr Uhl wrote...

maselphie wrote...

Methinks the devs are getting bitter by hanging out the forums, and should probably take a break. If you want to know how we really feel about it, you should probably poke your head in after we've actually played it.

His job is to hang out on the forums. Among other things.

I wouldn't consider Chris a developer ... Does that get me lynched?

[Herr Uhl]

maselphie wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

maselphie wrote...

Methinks the devs are getting bitter by hanging out the forums, and should probably take a break. If you want to know how we really feel about it, you should probably poke your head in after we've actually played it.

His job is to hang out on the forums. Among other things.

I wouldn't consider Chris a developer ... Does that get me lynched?

Other than Gaider saying "don't get your hopes up too much", what makes the others bitter about it to you?

They are spiteful and sarcastic, but that is the normal way of things.

[maselphie]

Herr Uhl wrote...

They are spiteful and sarcastic, but that is the normal way of things.

Oh. My mistake. Must be a fun office.

[Reidbynature]

maselphie wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

They are spiteful and sarcastic, but that is the normal way of things.

Oh. My mistake. Must be a fun office.

Wow that's depressing.

[Lord_Caledore]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

*snipped a bunch of stuff I agree with*

You are my personal hero, good sir.

Judging from the forums, Dragon Age 2 might be a dating simulator.

I'm glad at least some of BioWare shares my opinions on romance. They are a decent feature, but they are and should be a small part of the game. I hope it will always stay that way.

When I see people asking for DLCs designed entirely so they can go on a date with a bunch of pixels (for ME, in this case)...I really start to wonder. And certain character threads scare me too much to even enter. It's a shame that discussion threads for interesting characters sometimes get hijacked by the really extreme fans. Talimancers are the biggest example but far from the only one; and it's a shame because they give more reasonable fans of those characters a bad name - as well as giving newcomers to these forums a rather bad impression.

Modifié par Lord_Caledore, 04 janvier 2011 - 02:37 .

[Reidbynature]

Lord_Caledore wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

*snipped a bunch of stuff I agree with*

You are my personal hero, good sir.

Judging from the forums, Dragon Age 2 might be a dating simulator.

I'm glad at least some of BioWare shares my opinions on romance. They are a decent feature, but they are and should be a small part of the game. I hope it will always stay that way.

When I see people asking for DLCs designed entirely so they can go on a date with a bunch of pixels (for ME, in this case)...I really start to wonder. And certain character threads scare me too much to even enter. It's a shame that discussion threads for interesting characters sometimes get hijacked by the really extreme fans. Talimancers are the biggest example but far from the only one; and it's a shame because they give more reasonable fans of those characters a bad name - as well as giving newcomers to these forums a rather bad impression.

It's true that threads do seem to get hijacked by the extreme fans.  I worry sometimes that it gives the impression that we're all or mostly like that and it makes me think twice about posting something related to the discussion.  Although it doesn't help when you get some people who can't talk about romance and sexuality in a mature discussion about an 18 rated game.  I guess my only advice is to take most people's comments with a grain of salt and just ignore the outright lunatics.

[YoziMaiden]

Lord_Caledore wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

*snipped a bunch of stuff I agree with*

You are my personal hero, good sir.

Judging from the forums, Dragon Age 2 might be a dating simulator.

I'm glad at least some of BioWare shares my opinions on romance. They are a decent feature, but they are and should be a small part of the game. I hope it will always stay that way.

When I see people asking for DLCs designed entirely so they can go on a date with a bunch of pixels (for ME, in this case)...I really start to wonder. And certain character threads scare me too much to even enter. It's a shame that discussion threads for interesting characters sometimes get hijacked by the really extreme fans. Talimancers are the biggest example but far from the only one; and it's a shame because they give more reasonable fans of those characters a bad name - as well as giving newcomers to these forums a rather bad impression.

Wouldn't Taliwhacker's be more approriate?  Just saying.

[Lord_Caledore]

YoziMaiden wrote...

Wouldn't Taliwhacker's be more approriate?  Just saying.

I actually have no idea where Talimancers come from. I assume necromancing old threads about Tali, but I'm not sure. I just picked it up from reading these boards.

Sometimes I use the name when talking to my ME-playing friends and they look at me like I'm crazy. All I can say is "it's a BioWare forum thing...nevermind..."

[ankuu]

SirOccam wrote...

The Gentle Ben wrote...

I would question if these are the self-same statistics that indicate that the large majority of players only played the human origins, and never completed DA:O (and if so, what conclusions you drew from those findings?), but in actuality my stance is not based on demographics (I understand why yours might be). I've stated my philosophy on "in-game" romances before, if you're going to have an NPC interactive, party-based game it's just good storytelling. I would also suggest that part of the prevalence of romance threads results from the likelyhood that romances are probably (for better or worse) one of the easier "features" (particularly in light of limited information) to discuss and speculate about.

I do feel that romances could be put to better use. DA:O without a doubt (for once I won't hedge) suffered from completion syndrome (so... we're sleeping together, now what? I argued in the days before Origins that some means should be attempted (perhaps it's not feasible, but if it is, I think it has narrative value) to integrate romances into the larger plot). A longer, more linear narrative can mitigate this to a large extent. As a general (but related) aside, I would also advocate not allowing conversation with characters unless they have something new to say (which should be as frequent as limited resources and plot developments deem feasible, or alternatively compensated for and agumented by heavy use of situational triggers). Resources willing (as always), this seems an advantage of the cinematic approach (Have potential scenes within the plot progression tied to the state of relationships).

As an addendium, I do acknowledge that there seems to be an expectation (and request) of features (particularly related to romance) within the forum that border perilously close to demands. I will always strongly maintain that it is the perogative of the writers to write the story they wish to write, with the characters (whatever race they might be) they believe best suited to contribute to their plot (advocation backed by reason is one thing, demands are rather unseemly and often counter-productive). Despite what some seem to believe, DA2 is Bioware's game to make as they deem fit.

Cannot agree with this post more.

I don't understand people who don't like the romances. It doesn't have to be romance per se, but there has to be some kind of relationship development between the main characters in order to give the story (and the characters) some depth. Otherwise it's just some one-dimensional hero slaughtering bad guys and then the game is over. I guess some people might be into that, but I am not. If we're to have companions at all, then the interplay of all those different personalities should have an effect, either on the plot, on the PC, or preferably both. As Ben says, it's just good storytelling.

I also agree about romances affecting the plot more. It felt a little hollow after the romance was consummated. The various LIs rarely talked to you about in-game events (the only time I can think of off-hand was Alistair confronting you about the outcome of the Redcliffe decision, but that happens regardless of romantic status). There were a multitude of times I felt like my character would want to talk to someone about decisions made and events occurring, such as my City Elf returning to the Alienage to find his father kidnapped by Tevinter slavers. Or a Human Noble after having confronted Howe (either that first time in Denerim or the last time in the dungeons). And so on.

The character threads do get out of hand a bit, though. It's fun to speculate about who the character is, what his or her backstory might be, what his or her personality might be like, who provides the voiceover, and yes, whether or not he or she might be romanceable. And a bit of excessive excitement manifesting as squees never hurt anyone. But then they go a little off the deep end.

I can't agree with these 2 posts more. Mostly the bolded part.

Modifié par ankuu, 04 janvier 2011 - 03:08 .

[BurtonSD]

Felfenix wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

BioWare games are DEFINED by three uniques features - full control over character dialog, companions and ROMANCE. If these three things were cut from a BioWare game they would be nowhere near as popular as they are. No one else does this. Alpha Protocol cames close but (and there just has to be a "but", doesn't it) they screwed it with their rubbish "dialogue stance" nonsense instead of letting us pick each response.

With BioWare games now stealing their gameplay from other sources and becoming more and more generic and homogenised with the lazy mainstream gaming industry ROMANCE is one of the last unqiue features they have.

it actually starts to harm the sales of the game (for those who are looking for an action game, RPG or story based game and not a romance sim).

Heaven forbid the romance scare off those action fans! As if they don't have enough games to play! BioWare games are frankly the only games we hopeless romantics can look forward to. I only hope DA2's romances are a big step up from ME2s which were awful.

According to your own childish argument, we have enough dating sims on questionable Japanese internet sites, but Heaven forbid we scare off the "romance" crowd. It's unfortunate that you're so belligerent that you perceive being asked to not clutter the ENTIRE forum with "I wanna have virtual sex with every NPC! That's what Bioware games are all about!" as some kind of threat to remove your little "romances" from the games. A couple suggestive lines of dialog and a cheesy scene.are not some kind of integral pillar of Bioware games.

Yes because people asking for romance simply want their character to put it in every **** imaginable. You sir have got us pegged. <_<

[RyuAzai]

We all have our preferences, and as for finding out what percent of gamers actually go into the romances it is easy enough to track the achievements on live or for the PC I remember agreeing to my data being used sent to bioware on how I played the game.



I think what makes people REALLY enjoy romances is because bioware is one of the few companies that places an importance on romance. How many movies, or books can you watch or read today without some kind of romance in it? It is a huge cross-cultural interest, that most video games have ignored, or given you little choice in.



Dragon Age isn't just romance though, of course not. I just don't see how telling a fanbase that enjoys a feature that them talking about it on the forums hurts sales of the game. I mean I don't see how anyone could come to this forum and actually believe Dragon Age is a dating sim. Especially with all the other marketing going on in other media outlets. It is a nonsense blame

you threw onto people.



I completely understand being tired of every time a character is released, a bunch of people want to know if they can get into their pants, and that kind of self-entitlement is extremely frustrating. But just looping everyone who speaks about romances or starts a romance thread into that group I felt was kinda unjust.



I am just one fan though, and I have always thought you Chris have always been in the right whenever you take the time to speak. But this time I believe you are not, and decided to just try my best to respectfully call you out on it.