238 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

Naughty Bear wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

I picked the renegade option (left mouse) when being interviewed by Khalisa-al-Jilani and Shep just clocked her doing quite the damage to her face with blood. Male on female violence and on camera from a well-known reporter. This makes absolutely no sense.

Makes perfect sense, she wasn't in the kitchen.

[/thread]
I wondered how long it would take someone to say that

[Layzr]

youre more concerned about her being a woman over the fact in both games she tries to make you look like a fool, would you mind if it was a male intrviewer?

[Gabey5]

in the future we are equal..

[Xeranx]

Layzr wrote...

youre more concerned about her being a woman over the fact in both games she tries to make you look like a fool, would you mind if it was a male intrviewer?

I already asked him that question to which he replied his views on the matter would be the same.  I'm sure he feels confident in making that statement because Bioware is unlikely to give us a scenario where a woman is in Conrad's position and a male is in Al-jilani's.  Regardless I haven't posted anymore because of the answer he gave.  I can't prove he's not being genuine so I have to assume he is.

Modifié par Xeranx, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:39 .

[InvincibleHero]

mineralica wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Male Shepard not cannon hmm. Why is he on both game boxes? Yeah they may be pushing you can be fem Shep and I am all for that, but appearances are everything.

Because most of gamers are male and it's easier for them to associate themselves with male protagonist?

OK name one female admiral presented in the ME games. That's right zero. The female camp has a male and a young one speaking for them at that. Did you talk to him? He said it is holding him back despite it being an honorable position.

Daro'Xen vas Moreh - one. Shaala Raan vas Tonbai - two. Ambassador of humanity in the book about Saren may count as woman on high position, if you want to add three.

Never said any of those people didn't deserve their position. I was responding to the thought that the future ME universe was more enlightened and less sexist.

Umm you did see the bruises and the blood right? I know I certainly did. If by norms it seems most on these boards are in favor of men hitting women so apparently that doesn't change in the future either. These boards are not representative of everyone of course.

I never claimed the game sexist, but that instance as gratuitous violence. It is just as sexist as today's world because it is made by men today. LOL. I could care less about that. I think Shepard hitting Al-jilani is wrong period.

Well, I also think that hitting Khalisah is wrong, but because it's likely she planned this reaction, not because she's a woman.
If I were Khalisah and went to the interview with man who is famous for his renegade behavor and asked those questions, I'd totally expect to find myself punched. Gender should never be an excuse for insulting people and hoping to be untouched.

The admirals thing was about the Alliance and not Quarian.

I don't think she would expect it at all. As for the did you get it response it has been in several movies. officers are supposed to act with decorum. he may be a renegade when on battlefield or achieving the goals of saving the galaxy while slugging her advances nothing and may impede his mission effectiveness. In a perfect society, insults should never resort in physical violence as that is pure bully behavior. If a Krogan reporter (imagine they actually exist) said the same thing to you would you be for punching him in the mouth. Absolutely not.

[Sajuro]

InvincibleHero wrote...

 If a Krogan reporter (imagine they actually exist) said the same thing to you would you be for punching him in the mouth. Absolutely not.

Yeah, I would headbutt him since that is the Krogan thing to do.
and you humans are all racist.

[InvincibleHero]

Il Divo wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

There is a difference between armed people/aliens/obstacle trying to kill Shepard to keep him from either mini-goals or his big quest to save the galaxy. This is done for a good reason and self-defense as well. Yeah he goes looking for trouble sometimes but the 'people" that get wasted are often scum and deserving.

And they're often innocent and involve mitigating circumstances. The colonists on Feros were effectively being mind controlled by the Thorian. Shiala was following orders and Matriarch Benezia. There are plenty of instances in Mass Effect where Shepard does what he wants, irrespective of whom it may cost. It's actually shame because I place more faith in the humanity of the Feros colonists than I do in Al-Jilani, yet I was forced to execute them while she's still walking around.  

tell me how a defenseless human female reporter fits any cruiteria or gets Shepard anywhere towards any goal he needs to save the galaxy. There is not one thing to justify it other than satisfying an angry Shepard but in doing so makes you look far worse harming your mission.

Most renegade options when dealing with the average person are gratuitous. Shepard doesn't need to push a mercenary off the balcony of a tall building, but it's done anyway. Al Jilani was a ****** and is clearly the type to hide behind her sex while making baseless accusations. If you honestly think this is the worst done in a Bioware game, you might want to go play Kotor and Jade Empire.  

You don't have to kill the colonists. Use the thorian grenade attachment or just knock them out with melee attacks.
Even playing a renegade you don't have to kill them.

I can justify pushing a mercenary to his death. He is a combatant/potential risk if left alive. If it were a male reporter Shepard would likewise be unacceptable in behavior. I don't think she was hiding behind her gender at all. Just asking a probing question to get a juciy quote.

I have played those games and did not find anything out of character or gratuitous for the main avatar and the game setting.

[Sajuro]

What if you pushed her out of the window instead?

[Inquisitor Recon]

How is punching that reporter out of character? Especially for a renegade Shepard. I bet you reporters like her tried to tear apart Shepard's reputation after Torfan, so I did it as payback.

[InvincibleHero]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

Sounds like you're concerned about sexism.

Well, Mr. Moral Guardian, we're not the ones discriminating between sexes here. I'd just as happily smack a male tabloid scumbag in the face.

Not really the subject was gratuitous violence and that was introduced to try and justify that men and women were equal. As if the right of them to be hit by men is something to be desired. No one has a right to be struck by another human being purely on what is said to them.

I do believe it is slightly less moral for a man to strike a woman than another man. However, circumstances can make a man vs. man equally immoral when the size and strength difference is very great.

It is not discriminating. there is no right to be punched by anyone. You people need to think things through. Are you ever going to be sued for not hitting a woman? NO. Discrimination is for behavior women do not want like a guy touching her bosum or rear or refusing to promote her because she won't give him favors.

[Sajuro]

 Just so we're clear, we shouldn't sock Al-Jilani in ME3, instead we should punch her in the throat, or shoot her in the foot so her treatment will be the same as Conrad Verner.

[InvincibleHero]

ReconTeam wrote...

Is this still being argued? It's not about hitting women. It's about hitting snobbish, arrogant, reporters who try to paint you in the worst light possible no matter what you do. Just imagine your punching Keith Olbermann or the reporter/anchorman of your choice.

I'm sure you have a local reporter or anchorman you want to punch, one who acts like a total dick and thinks everyone else is a bunch of filthy peasants, every city has one.

I wouldn't do it. I have respect for people and the law and consequences. That one second you feel good would be far outweighed by what follows you for years after. If you are convicted of assault you would be really sorry.

[InvincibleHero]

didymos1120 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

I have no problem with any of their past games. You take on a nameless character you create. Shepard is given a persona that of a military trained leader. It just isn't something that should happen.

But it nonetheless does, regardless of what you personally think "should" happen:

I truly feel it was put in for shock value only.

No, it was put in for it's over-the-top comedic value.  Which is how practically everyone managed to take it.

http://www.cbsnews.c...ain521663.shtml

(CBS)  Apollo 11 astronaut Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin offered a spirited defense Wednesday as to why he decked a pushy filmmaker who wanted him to swear on a Bible that he really did go to the moon – self protection.

"Buzz Aldrin was forced to protect himself and his stepdaughter when he was aggressively confronted outside a Beverly Hills hotel," by independent Nashville filmmaker Bart Sibrel, publicist Robert O'Brien said in a prepared statement Tuesday.

The statement added that Sibrel "has reportedly harassed other Apollo Astronauts (across) the years."

Sibrel, 37, who has spent years trying to prove that American astronauts and especially Aldrin never landed on or walked on the moon, said Aldrin punched him in the jaw when he tried to conduct an ambush interview with him and then ran away.

Sibrel said he'd confronted Aldrin twice before and was surprised that Aldrin reacted the way he did this third time.

"I was very surprised that he hit me, I thought it was very foolish of him to do it in front of two video cameras," Sibrel said. "He has a good punch. It was quick too. I didn't see it coming."

He wants the Beverly Hills police to charge Aldrin with assault.

A police spokesman said police were investigating but had not yet spoken to Aldrin. Once the investigation is completed, its findings will be forwarded to the district attorney to see what, if any, action will be taken, the spokesman said.

The police spokesman added that witnesses have come forward stating that they saw Sibrel aggressively poke Aldrin with a Bible and that Sibrel had lured Aldrin to the hotel under false pretenses so that he could interview him.

Sibrel told Reuters, "I approached him and asked him again to swear on a Bible that he went to the moon, and told him he was a thief for taking money to give an interview for something he didn't do."

The incident was videotaped for a new Sibrel film, which claims to prove that the Apollo 11 astronauts faked footage of their July 1969 trip to the moon to fool the Soviet Union into thinking the United States had won the 1960s space race.

Aldrin was the second man to take a walk on the moon, a feat recorded on grainy black-and-white film footage and transmitted around the world on July 20, 1969.


Aldrin was born in 1930 and this happened in 2002. he was 72 years old and physcially provoked. Siebrel is not really a reporter and he had stalked Aldrin and other astronauts through the years. Siebrel is 37 and obviously not a woman either. So how does it pare up to an in prime biotic, cyborg enhanced Shepard still fresh out of military or current or ex-spectre blasting a female al-Jilani in the face.

[InvincibleHero]

Il Divo wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

I have no problem with any of their past games. You take on a nameless character you create. Shepard is given a persona that of a military trained leader. It just isn't something that should happen. I truly feel it was put in for shock value only. If I'm playing a CE drow fighter it would fit with the character hating humans and being utterly evil, with Shepard it makes no sense.

So, incredibly gratuitous violence is no longer gratuitous because it's in character for someone to do it? Revan was a Jedi, that did not stop him from enslaving the Wookies on Kashyyk. Enslaving Death's Hand and his soul is not considered excessively violent?

I don't see how your justification of other Bioware games in any way protects them any more than Mass Effect. Violence is violence. None of the dark side decisions in Kotor provide any more moral justification than punching Al-Jilani, and often they're even more excessive. Jilani at least proves to be someone asking to be punched where in Kotor, you are often attacking unprovoked innocents.

Yep. All gratuitous means whether it is deserved/justifiable or not. Most of the people the violence is being done to in games are the "bad guys". Note an evil main character in Jade Empire wants to rule so killing a few thousand people is nothing to him. Well think back what was Revan's reasoning for enslaving the Jedi.

No such thing about violence in a person's soul. We all have free will and thought. We can do whatever we want with it. There are people that use violence because for them it works to attain what they want.

I beg to differ. In the KOTOR games dark side actions fit with the character and you gained something from it. Be it a special lightsaber crystal or credits, a more expedient path to completing a goal,  or even dark side points which is really a way to make you more powerful as dark side powers are cheaper thus you can use more of them. I found nothing that an evil Dark Lord aspirant could not justify in the game universe.