243 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Let's not go into "EA is evil", please.

Wasn't heading there, just pointing out that they provide the money, and therefore get to make the decisions if they want to. I personally would take EA over Kotickvision anyway, like I said it seems like Riccitiello knows what he's doing.

Yeah, BioWare is not part of EA Partners so...

I don't think stating that investors have some influence over how their money is being spent = saying that EA is evil.

How much influence EA has BioWare is known probably only to EA and BioWare.  Might be very little, might be a great deal.  But EA provides the funds, so BioWare is going to at least take into serious consideration anything that EA might suggest.

Again, that's not saying it's evil.  That's just business.

----

I keep thinking people played a different game than I did.  How is it that the combat I found wonderfully refreshing has caused so many other people to cry "shuffle, no!"

*shakes his head*

Even now understanding what the issue was, apparently - not positioning your character manually, just saying "attack that guy" and then being shocked that the AI pathing didn't do the best job of moving in for the attack - I still don't understand how this is a problem with the game and not with how people played the game. *shrug*

I could complain that I can't jump over obstacles or climb in KotOR - or I could accecpt that this was how the game was designed, that those weren't options, and move on.  By comparison I mean it sounds like people noticed, for example, that you could quick-hit someone running by your character and they are crying foul as opposed to realizing "oh, that won't work in this game as it was designed, guess I'll have to try something else."

I get not liking that style of combat, or better liking combat where it's more immediate - but that doesn't mean this system was broken or wrong, just different.

Modifié par MerinTB, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:42 .

[AlanC9]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
I'd say the pre release feedback is more important to the higher ups then the post release feedback. Without positive pre release feedback no one buys your game, which means no money, which means no sequel.

Does that actually happen? I can't think of any games that were sunk by prerelease feedback that weren't actually bad games.

[nightcobra]

crimzontearz wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


no Danza it does not. But it means that arguing against this decision is ridiculous, just as ridiculous as arguing that NG+ insanity on ME2 was too easy because someone could run it in under 5 hours without dying and ever in a single bout and therefore it should be made harder.....


also...flashy animations maybe are aestetically an issue, lackof execution speed is a system issue, if one needs to choose the lesser of those two evil the aestetic issue is "it"

Again, if no one argues nothing will change. Bioware, presumably, serves the consumer. Again, if they get enough feedback, again presumably, they'll change it. 

and I totally agree with you there but as you see a lot of people are arguing against you.


why should the devs listen to your side over the other? Because mister T's e-penis is huge? I'd say no.

let's stop the personal attacks shall we?

[Demx]

SirOccam wrote...

Siradix wrote...

I'll be happy with the combat if they changed it so that I can attack enemies that are running by me. Not click to attack, wait so that I can watch the enemy run by me to stop and attack someone else, and then I can finally go over and attack it.

I think that was one of their primary goals. What you are describing is the dreaded "shuffle." Now when you attack you just attack, without all the tedious positioning. I can personally verify this from playing the demo...if you want to attack something, you can just make it happen right then.

As they are fond of saying, when you press a button, something awesome happens.

Well then the combat should make me happy.

[Tiax Rules All]

Seriously ChrimsonTears? did I say something to personally attack you. Why do you insist on talking about my penis and how huge it is? lol.. anyways, I think its you that are getting a little worked up about this. I was gonna be done with this topic but had to just say this last bit.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

TheMadCat wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Wasn't heading there, just pointing out that they provide the money, and therefore get to make the decisions if they want to. I personally would take EA over Kotickvision anyway, like I said it seems like Riccitiello knows what he's doing.

I suggest you get yourself to an eye doctor immediatly then, apparently you're going blind.

That wasn't an "EA is evil" or "BioWare are EA slaves" type jab. I just see Riccitiello as a banker who has zero clue about the gaming industry and that fact is reflected in the Godawful numbers and the crap ton of cash I've lost in EA since he took over.

Everything I've read about and from him says he understands the industry. The fact that he's a good banker just compliments it. He understands that rushing out a lack luster product and banking on pre review sales isn't the way to make a profit. He's also said he would be ok with a Mirrors Edge sequel since the game was so critically acclaimed and that it takes more than one entry to build a stellar franchise.

MerinTB wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Let's not go into "EA is evil", please.

Wasn't heading there, just pointing out that they provide the money, and therefore get to make the decisions if they want to. I personally would take EA over Kotickvision anyway, like I said it seems like Riccitiello knows what he's doing.

Yeah, BioWare is not part of EA Partners so...

I don't think stating that investors have some influence over how their money is being spent = saying that EA is evil.

How much influence EA has BioWare is known probably only to EA and BioWare.  Might be very little, might be a great deal.  But EA provides the funds, so BioWare is going to at least take into serious consideration anything that EA might suggest.

Again, that's not saying it's evil.  That's just business.

----

I keep thinking people played a different game than I did.  How is it that the combat I found wonderfully refreshing has caused so many other people to cry "shuffle, no!"

*shakes his head*

Even now understanding what the issue was, apparently - not positioning your character manually, just saying "attack that guy" and then being shocked that the AI pathing didn't do the best job of moving in for the attack - I still don't understand how this is a problem with the game and not with how people played the game. *shrug*

I could complain that I can't jump over obstacles or climb in KotOR - or I could accecpt that this was how the game was designed, that those weren't options, and move on.  By comparison I mean it sounds like people noticed, for example, that you could quick-hit someone running by your character and they are crying foul as opposed to realizing "oh, that won't work in this game as it was designed, guess I'll have to try something else."

I get not liking that style of combat, or better liking combat where it's more immediate - but that doesn't mean this system was broken or wrong, just different.

Eventually you'll come to terms with an unfortunate truth: People are, by large, stupid.

Once you accept that life will be much easier to understand.



Edit, well this is going off topic. I don't know how to rein it in so unless someone else wants to this is gonna get locked.

Modifié par TonyTheBossDanza123, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:52 .

[AlanC9]

MerinTB wrote...
How much influence EA has BioWare is known probably only to EA and BioWare.  Might be very little, might be a great deal.  But EA provides the funds, so BioWare is going to at least take into serious consideration anything that EA might suggest.

Again, that's not saying it's evil.  That's just business.

But since it's just business, wouldn't any move that EA would want Bio to make still be rational for Bio to make even if Bio was independent? Unless the argument is that EA is wrong about how to run things, or that an independent Bio would be less profitable than EA-unit Bio and that this would be a good thing.

I get not liking that style of combat, or better liking combat where it's more immediate - but that doesn't mean this system was broken or wrong, just different.

Yeah -- "broken" gets tossed around way too much here. But if everyone who wanted it changed called it "annoying combat" rather than "broken combat," we'd still end up in the same place, wouldn't we?

[Dave of Canada]

MerinTB wrote...

Even now understanding what the issue was, apparently - not positioning your character manually, just saying "attack that guy" and then being shocked that the AI pathing didn't do the best job of moving in for the attack - I still don't understand how this is a problem with the game and not with how people played the game. *shrug*

That isn't shuffling.

Shuffling is when you're next to an enemy and keep moving around them trying to fit a spot to sit down and hit them, it's called "shuffle" because you're shuffling around to attack them. It can take 4-5 seconds or more for the attack to actually go off. More if the enemy is moving.

[Dave of Canada]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Eventually you'll come to terms with an unfortunate truth: People are, by large, stupid.

Thank you for your kind words.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Even now understanding what the issue was, apparently - not positioning your character manually, just saying "attack that guy" and then being shocked that the AI pathing didn't do the best job of moving in for the attack - I still don't understand how this is a problem with the game and not with how people played the game. *shrug*

That isn't shuffling.

Shuffling is when you're next to an enemy and keep moving around them trying to fit a spot to sit down and hit them, it's called "shuffle" because you're shuffling around to attack them. It can take 4-5 seconds or more for the attack to actually go off. More if the enemy is moving.

Thats a pathfinding issue. Its a staple of Bio games. I love their titles, but I have to say, their pathfinding for AI has never really been anything special.

[Atakuma]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Eventually you'll come to terms with an unfortunate truth: People are, by large, stupid.

Once you accept that life will be much easier to understand.

No, people have a difference of opinion. I don't believe you are stupid because you think combat in origins was great.

[DKJaigen]

oh man i wish people would just shut up untill we actually can play DA2 and then we can draw comparisons. Also i would like to point out while the DA combat was definitely good. It still had a large amount of room for improvement

[DaggerFiend]

MerinTB wrote...

I keep thinking people played a different game than I did.  How is it that the combat I found wonderfully refreshing has caused so many other people to cry "shuffle, no!"

It's more like "Shuffle, that's very annoying." Didn't ruin the game, but makes combat more tedious.

Even now understanding what the issue was, apparently - not positioning your character manually, just saying "attack that guy" and then being shocked that the AI pathing didn't do the best job of moving in for the attack - I still don't understand how this is a problem with the game and not with how people played the game. *shrug*

Actually, this was a problem for the game if you played on PS3/360. If this was PC exclusive, you could definitely argue that it was because of how people played, not because it was an issue with the game. Arguably, with the positioning system given to console versions, the combat didn't need to be changed, but they did change it, and that accommodates for the players who would rather just jump into combat. I say, more power to them.

I get not liking that style of combat, or better liking combat where it's more immediate - but that doesn't mean this system was broken or wrong, just different.

This I agree with completely; I never thought combat in DAO was broken, it just wasn't compatible with certain playstyles, and the playstyle that we console users were stuck with.

[TheMadCat]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Everything I've read about and from him says he understands the industry. The fact that he's a good banker just compliments it. He understands that rushing out a lack luster product and banking on pre review sales isn't the way to make a profit. He's also said he would be ok with a Mirrors Edge sequel since the game was so critically acclaimed and that it takes more than one entry to build a stellar franchise.

And that's all fine and dandy, but again the numbers are in the crapper and the stock price has never really recovered from a few years ago where as Activision and Ubisoft, the other big two, are doing fairly well, we're talking years here not a few months sample size. And let's not forget that when EA was at it's lowest point both PR and fiscally wise back in '04 Riccietllo was also calling the shots as the COO. He's smart with money and knows how to invest, but running a business isn't the same as running an investment firm. He's never had a whole lot of success in the gaming industry and EA has been bleeding cash more often then not since he came back as CEO.

But I'll shut up now, already done enough to derail this thread.

[AlanC9]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Eventually you'll come to terms with an unfortunate truth: People are, by large, stupid.

Once you accept that life will be much easier to understand.

Edit, well this is going off topic. I don't know how to rein it in so unless someone else wants to this is gonna get locked.

Dude... you really can't control yourself? You're that immature?

[Realranger55]

Merrintb I agree with just about everything you've said in this thread. Since you seem to think you are alone in the way you feel about the game I figure I'd throw that out there.

[surfgirlusa_2006]

I love DA:O, I really do.



However, playing as a 2H warrior last night made me realize that the combat definitely had room for improvement. For instance, why is it that my 2H attacks were so slow that by the time I would actually swing my weapon my other party members had already killed the enemy, leaving me to simply swing at air? It was a bit annoying, really.



At any rate, I think the new combat will likely improve upon some aspects of DA:O, although I certainly don't believe it will be perfect. I'm reserving further judgement until I play it, though.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Atakuma wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Eventually you'll come to terms with an unfortunate truth: People are, by large, stupid.

Once you accept that life will be much easier to understand.

No, people have a difference of opinion. I don't believe you are stupid because you think combat in origins was great.

Oh I'm not referring to anything specific, I was just making a broad statement to help him understand.

TheMadCat wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Everything I've read about and from him says he understands the industry. The fact that he's a good banker just compliments it. He understands that rushing out a lack luster product and banking on pre review sales isn't the way to make a profit. He's also said he would be ok with a Mirrors Edge sequel since the game was so critically acclaimed and that it takes more than one entry to build a stellar franchise.

And that's all fine and dandy, but again the numbers are in the crapper and the stock price has never really recovered from a few years ago where as Activision and Ubisoft, the other big two, are doing fairly well, we're talking years here not a few months sample size. And let's not forget that when EA was at it's lowest point both PR and fiscally wise back in '04 Riccietllo was also calling the shots as the COO. He's smart with money and knows how to invest, but running a business isn't the same as running an investment firm. He's never had a whole lot of success in the gaming industry and EA has been bleeding cash more often then not since he came back as CEO.

But I'll shut up now, already done enough to derail this thread.

Maybe they're not as profitable but they're much more respectable.

AlanC9 wrote...



Dude... you really can't control yourself? You're that immature?

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you misunderstood. Because from my point of view, you just insulted me with no reason to, and I can't see why. Care to explain?

Modifié par TonyTheBossDanza123, 05 janvier 2011 - 11:16 .

[John Epler]

Aaand locked.

Civility and respect is all I ask, folks. Please keep this in mind in the future.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 05 janvier 2011 - 11:20 .