448 réponses à ce sujet

[henkez3]

Tinxa wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

If I made a fantasy world, would I be racist and discriminatory if I made the world without black people?

It would probably be racism if you didn't include any racial minorities. You don't have to be racist to contribute to racism.

Look I'm all for equality and not judging people for stuff they can't control. But it is pretty ridiculous and stupid to get bent out of shape just because someone made a fantasy world with characters that dont happen to share the same pigmentation as you.

I mean if they decided to make most people in Dragon Age black or asian I wouldnt start shouting racism or some crap.

I do wonder how many people complained about the lack of white and black people in Jade empire???

It's pretty much only racism if it's a setting with all whites or a vast majority of whites. Thats how the political correct view goes anyway. I'm not racist or anything myself, but I do love to point out hypocracy.

[YoziMaiden]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Tinxa wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

If I made a fantasy world, would I be racist and discriminatory if I made the world without black people?

It would probably be racism if you didn't include any racial minorities. You don't have to be racist to contribute to racism.

Look I'm all for equality and not judging people for stuff they can't control. But it is pretty ridiculous and stupid to get bent out of shape just because someone made a fantasy world with characters that dont happen to share the same pigmentation as you.

I mean if they decided to make most people in Dragon Age black or asian I wouldnt start shouting racism or some crap.

I do wonder how many people complained about the lack of white and black people in Jade empire???

Nobody.. Except idiots..

Someone is a little aggressive,  all he did was ask for representation of people of color in DA.  It was kind of wonky to try and make a dark skinned character in the character generator.  Why is it a problem if he wants to be black, white, yellow,   brown, or green? 

Unless I missed something he never called bioware racist,  he just asked a simple question and this thread has seemed to get a bit out of hand.

[drahelvete]

I can't think of one game that lets you play a pygmy (no, black halflings don't count). Ergo, all game developers are racists.

[Eclipse_9990]

YoziMaiden wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Tinxa wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

If I made a fantasy world, would I be racist and discriminatory if I made the world without black people?

It would probably be racism if you didn't include any racial minorities. You don't have to be racist to contribute to racism.

Look I'm all for equality and not judging people for stuff they can't control. But it is pretty ridiculous and stupid to get bent out of shape just because someone made a fantasy world with characters that dont happen to share the same pigmentation as you.

I mean if they decided to make most people in Dragon Age black or asian I wouldnt start shouting racism or some crap.

I do wonder how many people complained about the lack of white and black people in Jade empire???

Nobody.. Except idiots..

Someone is a little aggressive,  all he did was ask for representation of people of color in DA.  It was kind of wonky to try and make a dark skinned character in the character generator.  Why is it a problem if he wants to be black, white, yellow,   brown, or green? 

Unless I missed something he never called bioware racist,  he just asked a simple question and this thread has seemed to get a bit out of hand.

Quote me if I'm wrong, but when in this lifetime did I say that there was a problem with him wanting his character to be black or something? I don't have a problem with that. Hell, my adopted mother is black. I'm just saying its just dumb for every game that comes out to have to feature every ethnicity that was ever born.

Besides I'm almost always aggressive. I'm a moody bastard, thats how I am... 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:02 .

[Beerfish]

Dumb topic unless you want to pick up every book, every song, every piece of art work, every video game, every movie from all over the world and wonder why their is enough diversity.

[Maria Caliban]

LURadio wrote...

I love Stanley's quote, it sums it up perfectly, why exactly in a fantasy world is racial diversity necessary ?? 

To me, it's very obvious what's wrong with a world where there are only white people and non-humans. This is especially true when the author links non-humans to real world minorities.

It's something I dislike about World of Warcraft.

Human = European influences
Not human = Native American, Japanese, West African influences

It 'matters' because fantasy, like all other entertainment, is made for real world people. And like a great deal of entertainment, it's predominately white. Real people who aren't white read, watch, and play fantasy, and much of the time, they find worlds where people who look like them simply don't exist.

If the majority of fantasy didn't have any women, I wouldn't like it. The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. My assumption is that if you're not white, you'd like to see stand ins for your racial group slaying dragons and rescuing princesses on occasion.

[Sherbet Lemon]

Well, I don't know if the OP is asking for necessity or accusing anyone of racism, I think it's more about representation and image.  When you're talking about race and identity as a construct, essentially image is tied into how we perceive ourselves and others.  Media forms (and that includes games and books) provide image and a dialog as they are reflection of cultural values, and the socialization process.  Minorities and women want to see people they can identify with as they feel marginalized and underepresented because we align closely with the images we are presented with.  In a sense, it isn't about calling someone racist or saying that someone is racist, it's more, please show that we exist.  Give us a voice and a place.

So often I think people think that calls for diversity are attacks, and I ultimately don't think they are.  It's not about being "PC"  it's about how one group can be called the default and anyone that states, what about everyone else is sort of dismissed (though I'm not saying that's the case in this instance with everyone).

I don't know if that makes sense or if I'm just being silly but that's what it all boils down to, and as far as the elves go their narrative can apply to any disaffected people as Mr. Woo applies in his earlier statement so eloquently.  Race and fantasy, however, is a slightly different conversation altogether and I'm not even going there.

[Maria Caliban]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

If I made a fantasy world, would I be racist and discriminatory if I made the world without black people?

It would probably be racism if you didn't include any racial minorities. You don't have to be racist to contribute to racism.

Look I'm all for equality and not judging people for stuff they can't control. But it is pretty ridiculous and stupid to get bent out of shape just because someone made a fantasy world with characters that dont happen to share the same pigmentation as you.

1. I am unsure why you think I'm bent out of shape.
2. My skin pigmentation is 'pretty damn white.' My mother is a redhead and could be described as 'hella damn white.' It's very possible to be white and still want to see racial diversity in one's entertainment.

I mean if they decided to make most people in Dragon Age black or asian I wouldnt start shouting racism or some crap.

Nor would I. Then again, Thedas has dark-skinned people.

henkez3 wrote...

It's pretty much only racism if it's a setting with all whites or a vast majority of whites.

In Western culture? Yep.

Thats how the political correct view goes anyway. I'm not racist or anything myself, but I do love to point out hypocracy.

There's nothing hypocritical about it. Then again, it seems the vast majority of people have no idea what the term 'hypocrisy' means.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:08 .

[Tinxa]

Why should they put every skincolour in large numbers in the game regardless if it makes sense or not. I Jade empire everyone were asian because of the setting. Ferelden is basically a backwater populated with (white) people born there, not some melting pot of people from allover. Even so I remember a lot of darker skinned NPCs in Origins. There were plenty of darker elves in the Dalish camp, the chasind, that robber in Lothering and many other minor characters...

Modifié par Tinxa, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:07 .

[Ploppy]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. 

Of course, theres also the other side of the coin, where many people can be very badly hurt by forcing offensive  elements into a fantasy world that is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our sad modern reality. Fantasy worlds should be safe and clean, and sorry, but to me that does mean keeping certain people very very far away from my playing experience.

[Face of Evil]

I appreciate the OP's point, but I don't think it's particularly beneficial to the game as a whole. OK, yes, we could transform Nevarra into …  Confucianist China, for example, which would allow us to have Asian characters. But why does it exist? How can we justify shoehorning this random Asian-inspired setting in the middle of a continent predominantly inspired by Western Europe?

Modifié par Face of Evil, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:15 .

[cachx]

Stanley Woo wrote...
It can also be an allegory for the Jews, North-American Japanese during WWII, the poor, the Romani, Yu-Gi-Oh players or any other peoples segregated and ghettoized for reasons other than race.

thanks for the laugh.

As for the topic itself. I think that the fictional world of Dragon Age has its own assortment of variety and plays with it very well. I don't see why should we drag real-world ethnicity into it.

Plus, I really hate token characters. (as awesome as a Mr. T expy would be on a Dragon Age game).

[Ortaya Alevli]

Ploppy wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. 

Of course, theres also the other side of the coin, where many people can be very badly hurt by forcing offensive  elements into a fantasy world that is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our sad modern reality. Fantasy worlds should be safe and clean, and sorry, but to me that does mean keeping certain people very very far away from my playing experience.

So what is so offensive, sad, unsafe and unclean that you wish to keep out of your playing experience? Just curious here.

[Ziggeh]

Ploppy wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. 

Of course, theres also the other side of the coin, where many people can be very badly hurt by forcing offensive  elements into a fantasy world that is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our sad modern reality. Fantasy worlds should be safe and clean, and sorry, but to me that does mean keeping certain people very very far away from my playing experience.

Certain people? What exactly are you saying here? Because I really hope it's not what it reads like.

[Lord_Caledore]

cachx wrote...

Plus, I really hate token characters.

I wonder if John Cleese in Jade Empire counts as a token character. If so, we need more token characters like that.

[Maria Caliban]

YoziMaiden wrote...

Unless I missed something he never called bioware racist...

No, he didn't. He did say it seemed thoughtless.

Ploppy wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. 

Of course, theres also the other side of the coin...

Oh, you mean straight people who feel left out because of the lack of straight romances in modern fantasy?

....where many people can be very badly hurt by forcing offensive  elements into a fantasy world that is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our sad modern reality.

I didn't realize people were being badly hurt by same-sex content in fantasy. Would you like me to kiss it and make it better?

Fantasy worlds should be safe and clean, and sorry, but to me that does mean keeping certain people very very far away from my playing experience.

I agree! Dragon Age: Origins, with its rape, war, torture, racism, poverty, betrayal, demonic possession, and body-horror, was a safe and clean game until they let that dirty gayness in.

[Eleinehmm]

Ploppy wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. 

Of course, theres also the other side of the coin, where many people can be very badly hurt by forcing offensive  elements into a fantasy world that is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our sad modern reality. Fantasy worlds should be safe and clean, and sorry, but to me that does mean keeping certain people very very far away from my playing experience.

Ouch ! Are you saying what I think you're saying ?

[henkez3]

@ Maria Caliban



I'm not quite sure I fully understand what you mean.



So it's racist to make a fantasy world based off of medieval europe and not include brown, black and asian people? But it's not racist to make an asian setting with only asians? If i make a continent in my fantasy world with only white people, and "justifiy it with the fantasy world's history, it's still racist? You do know that Europe was completly white up until maybe the 20th century right?

[Eclipse_9990]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

If I made a fantasy world, would I be racist and discriminatory if I made the world without black people?

It would probably be racism if you didn't include any racial minorities. You don't have to be racist to contribute to racism.

Look I'm all for equality and not judging people for stuff they can't control. But it is pretty ridiculous and stupid to get bent out of shape just because someone made a fantasy world with characters that dont happen to share the same pigmentation as you.

1. I am unsure why you think I'm bent out of shape.
2. My skin pigmentation is 'pretty damn white.' My mother is a redhead and could be described as 'hella damn white.' It's very possible to be white and still want to see racial diversity in one's entertainment.

 

1. I wasnt talking about you specifically
2. So am I. Small world aint it?

Also I don't know where your not seeing racial diversity... Just look around you! Every where you look is racial diversity. We've got so much white, and brown around us we don't know what to do.

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:19 .

[AlanC9]

Ploppy wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. 

Of course, theres also the other side of the coin, where many people can be very badly hurt by forcing offensive  elements into a fantasy world that is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our sad modern reality. Fantasy worlds should be safe and clean, and sorry, but to me that does mean keeping certain people very very far away from my playing experience.

Where does that end? You have scary people you don't like so they can't be in, rabid homophobes don't like gay people so gay people can't be in......

Edit: yep, I'm giving Ploppy the benefit of the doubt here.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:24 .

[EnchantedEyes1]

Ploppy wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. 

Of course, theres also the other side of the coin, where many people can be very badly hurt by forcing offensive  elements into a fantasy world that is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our sad modern reality. Fantasy worlds should be safe and clean, and sorry, but to me that does mean keeping certain people very very far away from my playing experience.

I'm not sure to whom you are referring to but fantasy worlds I've visited recently are far from safe and clean, and certainly didn't exist in DAO and probably won't exist in DA2. 

[Eclipse_9990]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ploppy wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. 

Of course, theres also the other side of the coin, where many people can be very badly hurt by forcing offensive  elements into a fantasy world that is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our sad modern reality. Fantasy worlds should be safe and clean, and sorry, but to me that does mean keeping certain people very very far away from my playing experience.

Where does that end? You have scary people you don't like so they can't be in, rabid homophobes don't like gay people so gay people can't be in......

Oh my ****ing god.. Please don't let this turn into a gay thing.. Please!

[YoziMaiden]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Ploppy wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The majority of fantasy doesn't have gay people, and I don't like that. 

Of course, theres also the other side of the coin, where many people can be very badly hurt by forcing offensive  elements into a fantasy world that is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our sad modern reality. Fantasy worlds should be safe and clean, and sorry, but to me that does mean keeping certain people very very far away from my playing experience.

Where does that end? You have scary people you don't like so they can't be in, rabid homophobes don't like gay people so gay people can't be in......

Oh my ****ing god.. Please don't let this turn into a gay thing.. Please!

I'm sorry, we're here and absolutely fabolous.

[Nerivant]

I suffer from anthropophobia, therefore, Thedas should be void of other people.