448 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

Ninja Mage wrote...

She does look like a british or spanish person with a tan. Absolutely. If she's suppose to be from Rivain, they failed. Might as well give Alistair a tan and say he's from Rivain too

the Rivaini are not black.

Modifié par Atakuma, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:33 .

[upsettingshorts]

It's an infuriating and off-topic sidetrack. Whatever Isabela and the Rivaini are they represent racial diversity because they are not "white people with tans." Which in of itself is a pretty damn offensive comment. 

If this thread is about advocating for more racial diversity in Dragon Age, the Rivaini are examples of diversity already present, and aren't really on topic unless we're trying to say that their presence is "enough" - which I'm not.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:37 .

[drahelvete]

Ninja Mage wrote...

She does look like a british or spanish person with a tan. Absolutely. If she's suppose to be from Rivain, they failed. Might as well give Alistair a tan and say he's from Rivain too

A British person with a tan? Now that's what I call fantasy.

[AlexXIV]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's an infuriating and off-topic sidetrack. Whatever Isabela and the Rivaini are they represent racial diversity because they are not "white people with tans." Which in of itself is a pretty damn offensive comment. 

If this thread is about advocating for more racial diversity in Dragon Age, the Rivaini are examples of diversity already present, and aren't really on topic unless we're trying to say that their presence is "enough" - which I'm not.

So you think skin is a racial trait, but shape of lips isn't?

[Ninja Mage]

I already brought up these points, and I got bashed. Wonder why. Anyway, who says the Rivaini can't be black?? Is there some region that gives them white features? It's ridiculous

[upsettingshorts]

AlexXIV wrote...

So you think skin is a racial trait, but shape of lips isn't?

Google "Berber" and get back to me, or more specifically Tuareg if you want to find shots that truly resemble Isabela.  Unless you're citing the bugged screenshot where she has incredibly tiny lips, in which case I'm just not going to care.

Isabela strikes me as a believable North African/Spanish person, and considering Rivain is something like Muslim Spain from the medieval era - that's a perfectly reasonable assumption.

West or East African she is not, nor was she meant to be. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:44 .

[Atakuma]

Ninja Mage wrote...

I already brought up these points, and I got bashed. Wonder why. Anyway, who says the Rivaini can't be black?? Is there some region that gives them white features? It's ridiculous

They can't be black because the aren't represented as such. Isabela does not look black because she isn't supposed to be black.

[AlanC9]

Harid wrote...

See, people say things like this, but then conversely, don't complain about say, Friends being set in New York, yet not even having Black, Asian, whatever extras until minorities complained about the fact that that isn't a real representation of New York.

The Friends complaints were bogus in the first place, except maybe for the workplaces. I've lived in Manhattan for years. The sorts of places those characters hang out in are pretty damn segregated.

[Reidbynature]

AlanC9 wrote...

I find the italicized part highly questionable. But that doesn't make you egocentric; merely wrong.

I don't see how.

[Harid]

Atakuma wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

She does look like a british or spanish person with a tan. Absolutely. If she's suppose to be from Rivain, they failed. Might as well give Alistair a tan and say he's from Rivain too

the Rivaini are not black.

This isn't known, nor can it be proven.

Anyways, someone tossed out white guilt.  I give this 2 more pages.

AlanC9 wrote...

The Friends
complaints were bogus in the first place, except maybe for the
workplaces. I've lived in Manhattan for years. The sorts of places those
characters hang out in are pretty damn segregated.

Ok, buddy.  Thanks for proving my point, though.  Whitewashing is ok, apparently.

Modifié par Harid, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:47 .

[drahelvete]

Captain Cornhole wrote...

 A lot of cultures hang onto to their traditions and haratige, when some of the Norse were converted to Christianity they hung on to their old religion and culture by beliveing that Odin and another one of their gods was Adam and Eve in the Garden of Edin.

Completely off-topic, but... no. We, the Norse, likened Ask and Embla with Adam and Eve, not Odin.

Sorry. Carry on!

[wulfsturm]

It's a little silly to think that there should be characters with every shade of pigmentation in a game that ostracizes people with different ears, has slavery, ghettos, and sexism.



On top of that, the game is based on a very small part of the established world - it would be like complaining that there are too many black people in Africa, it just doesn't make sense. Here's a fundamental truth: People with the same type of skin coloration like to like to live together, this cannot be argued.



Of all the things depicted in this game that you people may not like; the murder, rape, blood, gore, horror, disease, slavery, subjugation - you decided to latch on to something as petty as skin coloration?



Forgive me if I roll my eyes a little at the absurdity of the human species.

[soteria]

Harid wrote...

I would argue that writers from other cultures and backgrounds already do, so western (let's not mince words, white) writers need to do the same.

All of them, or some of them? You already said some white writers did this, and to give an example from fantasy, Malazan Book of the Fallen is extremely diverse. I've read others that never mention skin color and some that imply that the protagonists aren't all white (Codex Alera describes barbarians as pale skinned) It's obvious that it can be done because it has been done. The question is if writers have an obligation to write diverse settings, not if it's possible.

[Atakuma]

Harid wrote...

This isn't known, nor can it be proven.

Anyways, someone tossed out white guilt.  I give this 2 more pages.

Isabela is Rivaini. She clearly isn't black, unless you wish to argue that she is and the designers are just terrible at there jobs.

[Harid]

Atakuma wrote...

Harid wrote...

This isn't known, nor can it be proven.

Anyways, someone tossed out white guilt.  I give this 2 more pages.

Isabela is Rivaini. She clearly isn't black, unless you wish to argue that she is and the designers are just terrible at there jobs.

You are contending a point with too low a sample size.  It's like going to Japan, seeing two black GI's, and saying holy ****, all of japan is black!  Until we step into Rivian, we don't know the make up of the people there.  It's the point I initially made, just as Blacks and Africans for that matter have huge differences, Riviani can, just the same, have those large differences as well.

Modifié par Harid, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:52 .

[Ninja Mage]

AlexXIV wrote...

So you think skin is a racial trait, but shape of lips isn't?

Obviously he does.

[ErichHartmann]

Race is a socially constructed myth which has no legitimate basis within the scientific community. We should be discussing ethnicity which attempts to define an individual's cultural identity.

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:54 .

[AlexXIV]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

So you think skin is a racial trait, but shape of lips isn't?

Google "Berber" and get back to me, or more specifically Tuareg if you want to find shots that truly resemble Isabela.  Unless you're citing the bugged screenshot where she has incredibly tiny lips, in which case I'm just not going to care.

Isabela strikes me as a believable North African/Spanish person, and considering Rivain is something like Muslim Spain from the medieval era - that's a perfectly reasonable assumption.

West or East African she is not, nor was she meant to be. 

The new isabella looks like a gypsy who could be from anywhere in Europe. I googled Tuareg and I think she could be one but doesn't really look like an exemplary one, maybe a half-breed. Anyway they shrunk her lips which even you can't deny and if that isn't changing a racial attribute then I don't know. I am not saying more than that I don't like it. I am not even suggesting there is any other reason behind it than the artists preferance.

[upsettingshorts]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Obviously he does.

...this is infuriating.  "Black" and "White" is not some light switch between features of column A and features of column B - there are a ton of ethnicities out there.  Some of them are dark skinned without "black features" (most often in the West this means West African) I cited one.  You ignored it.  

AlexXIV wrote...
Anyway they shrunk her lips which even you can't deny and if that isn't changing a racial attribute then I don't know.

Yes, she used to be a white person with massive Angelina Jolie lips.  Now she is a North African person with smaller lips.  I am not bothered by this, nor do I feel like it is some "reduction in her blackness" which seems to be - oddly - the argument.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:53 .

[Atakuma]

Harid wrote...

You are contending a point with too low a sample size.  Until we step into Rivian, we don't know the make up of the people there.  It's the point I initially made, just as Blacks and Africans for that matter have huge differences, Riviani can, just the same, have those large differences as well.

This is a video game; how one person of a certain fictional race looks is going to be representative of the majority.

[Harid]

It looks like me and Upsettingshorts are arguing the same point to two different arguments. Which is kinda funny.

Atakuma wrote...

Harid wrote...

You are
contending a point with too low a sample size.  Until we step into
Rivian, we don't know the make up of the people there.  It's the point I
initially made, just as Blacks and Africans for that matter have huge
differences, Riviani can, just the same, have those large differences as
well.

This is a video game; how one person of a certain fictional race looks is going to be representative of the majority.

Whatever you need to say to make you 'win' the argument, buddy.

Modifié par Harid, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:54 .

[drahelvete]

I love how someone can make a passionate speech about ethnic diversity and tolerance one second, and then use words like "gypsy" and "half-breed" the next.

The preferred term is Romani.



Just to be clear: I'm not calling anyone a racist. If anything, I think this whole PC thing has gone way too far. Just thought it was funny.