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[Cobrawar]

King Killoth wrote...

how can any one say no ethnic diversity did no one notice sten or zev.. sten was tall darkskind and had a funny acsent and zev was a bi sexual italian elf.. not to mention Duncan was only half white he was part Rivain

 zevern was a bisexual italian elf????

[Dhiro]

Cobrawar wrote...

King Killoth wrote...

how can any one say no ethnic diversity did no one notice sten or zev.. sten was tall darkskind and had a funny acsent and zev was a bi sexual italian elf.. not to mention Duncan was only half white he was part Rivain

 zevern was a bisexual italian elf????

Well, he was bissexual and a elf. Italian? Not so much, he striked me as spanish, but I'm not good with accents.

[Reidbynature]

AlanC9 wrote...

Of course you don't see the costs, or you wouldn't have made that post. I'll walk you through it

I'm assuming we're talking about the setting itself rather than defects in the character creator. Though obviously the design goals of the character creator are somewhat dependent on the setting.

So you want a diverse setting. How do you make a diverse setting? Four ways come to mind.

1: Turn off your brain and simply copy over the racial mix of, say , 21st century Brooklyn without any concern as to how this came about.

2: Grant the setting a level of technology (including magic) or social organization sufficient to have large-scale migration and/or transportation of people from widely scattered regions on the globe; this technology has to have been in place for a fairly long time before game start for people of different races to actually be integrated into the setting.

3: Assume that the technology in point 2 above once existed but has been lost.

4: Assume that magical and/or divine intervention has resulted in the creation of diverse races much closer to each other than happened on Earth.

1 is, well, stupid. 4 is inapplicable to DA. Either 2 or 3 would have been workable, but they would have imposed serious constraints on the design of the world.

Ok, this last one because it's directly to me about something I directed to you and I just saw this when I posted my last post (alright, I have a problem).  What is with all this pointless reasoning to have people who are non-white in the game?  To satisfy peoples pre-conceptions about race?  It's fantasy there doesn't have to be.  Plus there are elves, dwarves and so forth.  Some of which their history seem to imply that they may not have always been native to Ferelden.

In summary I never asked for the world to be reworked into a different cultural setting.  I never said that every other npc had to be non-white.  Including them doesn't mean that you have to transform the game design, just a handful or less npc's.

[King Killoth]

Cobrawar wrote...

King Killoth wrote...

how can any one say no ethnic diversity did no one notice sten or zev.. sten was tall darkskind and had a funny acsent and zev was a bi sexual italian elf.. not to mention Duncan was only half white he was part Rivain

 zevern was a bisexual italian elf????

yeah you didnt get that when he hits on either gender you play as. but for the most part Freldon is mutch like middle age europe where yes it was a lot of white guys but other races lived in their countrys..still is like that in someplaces..

[King Killoth]

Dhiro wrote...

Cobrawar wrote...

King Killoth wrote...

how can any one say no ethnic diversity did no one notice sten or zev.. sten was tall darkskind and had a funny acsent and zev was a bi sexual italian elf.. not to mention Duncan was only half white he was part Rivain

 zevern was a bisexual italian elf????

Well, he was bissexual and a elf. Italian? Not so much, he striked me as spanish, but I'm not good with accents.

it was latanish i'll grant spanish

[Urdnot_Write]

Hopefully one of these days Bioware will make a game set outside of Europe with a cast of characters that are largely non-European. I imagine that when this happens there will be very few accusations of racial insensitivity because people will realize that it is done for the sake of the story.

[soteria]

Harid wrote...

I lived in Manhattan before I moved back to Long Island, and I've never seen any part of it that had no other minorites in it, from working behind the counter to doing business in the type of places they hung out in. They got the setting wrong, and that's why it was changed in the first place.

No doubt your experience in Manhattan was conclusive and more valid than anyone else's. I'm sure in your time there you were able to obtain a comprehensive sampling of every part of Manhattan. It's such a small area that what one person knows of Manhattan can be said to be true of all of it.

[upsettingshorts]

Urdnot_Write wrote...

Hopefully one of these days Bioware will make a game set outside of Europe with a cast of characters that are largely non-European.

They did.  It was called Jade Empire.

[AlexXIV]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Urdnot_Write wrote...

Hopefully one of these days Bioware will make a game set outside of Europe with a cast of characters that are largely non-European.

They did.  It was called Jade Empire.

This. Idk why people always forget this.

[Cobrawar]

Dhiro wrote...

Cobrawar wrote...

King Killoth wrote...

how can any one say no ethnic diversity did no one notice sten or zev.. sten was tall darkskind and had a funny acsent and zev was a bi sexual italian elf.. not to mention Duncan was only half white he was part Rivain

 zevern was a bisexual italian elf????

Well, he was bissexual and a elf. Italian? Not so much, he striked me as spanish, but I'm not good with accents.

I always thought the orlesians were french, cuz I hated the french lol except for the Napoleonic era french they are so much better then modern day french

Modifié par Cobrawar, 04 janvier 2011 - 11:17 .

[King Killoth]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Urdnot_Write wrote...

Hopefully one of these days Bioware will make a game set outside of Europe with a cast of characters that are largely non-European.

They did.  It was called Jade Empire.

yeah only white guy was a monty python joke

[TJPags]

This thread went from a (for the most part) intelligent discussion, to "who knows more about the racial makeup of Manhattan".

So very interesting.  And amusing.

Someone pass the popcorn, please?

[Urdnot_Write]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Urdnot_Write wrote...

Hopefully one of these days Bioware will make a game set outside of Europe with a cast of characters that are largely non-European.

They did.  It was called Jade Empire.

I know. I was thinking about being more explicit but I figured it was implied heavily enough. My bad.

[soteria]

@AlanC9: I believe Reidbynature is saying he wanted #1, and screw realism. /shrug. I guess I can actually sympathize with that, since I'm generally more interested in my games being fun than realistic. I prefer the lore to be fairly coherent, but ok.

[PsychoBlonde]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Am i concerned that I won't be able to feel represented by my PC or the story/setting? Heck no! I am defined by more than just my race. i have my height, my roguish nature, my love of fantasy, wish fulfillment, and lifelong love of sword-and-sorcery. I also have a love of good story and the triumph of good over evil.You know what wouldn't have represented me? Jade Empire with non-Asian themed names. but that's just how far you'd have to get for me to not find something in a game that represents me.

Bless you, Stan.  People seem to forget that calls for racial diversity is ALSO a racist position because it is ultimately based on the idea that people of different races are somehow fundamentally different and somehow can't identify with people who don't share their physical characteristics.  Even worse, it treats every member of a race as if they were interchangeable parts who should identify with each other because of their physical characteristics!

I have nothing to say about this concept that doesn't involve some truly foul language, however I would like to add that if your complaint is that you can't really play someone who looks like they actually belong to a different ethnicity instead of being just really, really tan (and fake tan, at that), I feel you, but because this is an esthetic issue.  Frankly it offends ME that the esthetics of darker skin are so bad in most games.  I'm whiter than Frosty the Snowman but that doesn't mean that I want my characters to always be Miss Lily-white.  Yet if you look at my profile, they're all white because the dark skin tones look AWFUL.

That was one of the things I liked about Fallout 3, actually--I could make characters who actually looked different ethnically.  I "played through" four times--once as a white chick, and then 3 different black chicks--and it was OSSUM.

[AlanC9]

Harid wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What are you talking about? It isn't whitewashing to get a real-world setting right.

I lived in Manhattan before I moved back to Long Island, and I've never seen any part of it that had no other minorites in it, from working behind the counter to doing business in the type of places they hung out in.  They got the setting wrong, and that's why it was changed in the first place.

OK -- so then you think I'm just lying, and you were saying that I was proving your point because I was lying. Gotcha.

[drahelvete]

Reidbynature wrote...

Ok, this last one because it's directly to me about something I directed to you and I just saw this when I posted my last post (alright, I have a problem).  What is with all this pointless reasoning to have people who are non-white in the game?  To satisfy peoples pre-conceptions about race?  It's fantasy there doesn't have to be.  Plus there are elves, dwarves and so forth.  Some of which their history seem to imply that they may not have always been native to Ferelden.
.

I really don't like that "It's fantasy, it doesn't have to make sense" argument. Sure, fantasy isn't realistic, but it should at least make an attempt to seem plausible.

There could be other explanations to why Thedas is full of POCs. Maybe the Tevinter Imperium brought great quantities of slaves over from some other continent. Or maybe there were technologically advanced African-inspired (think Egyptian or Nubian) people who invaded Thedas in the past.

Doesn't really matter, but it has to make sense within the setting. There is fantasy and then there is this: http://tvtropes.org/...in/BlackVikings or http://tvtropes.org/...yCorrectHistory

[AngelicMachinery]

PsychoBlonde wrote...



That was one of the things I
liked about Fallout 3, actually--I could make characters who actually
looked different ethnically.  I "played through" four times--once as a
white chick, and then 3 different black chicks--and it was OSSUM.

But they all had mustaches...  I really wish I could figure out how to make that go away.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 04 janvier 2011 - 11:25 .

[AlexXIV]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...



That was one of the things I
liked about Fallout 3, actually--I could make characters who actually
looked different ethnically.  I "played through" four times--once as a
white chick, and then 3 different black chicks--and it was OSSUM.

But they all had mustaches...  I really wish I could figure out how to make that go away.

Bethesda managed to give asian people a yellowish color though. I tried to make an asian character, but I failed to get the yellow off so I gave up

[Cobrawar]

The fallout 3 world and the dragon age world are two totally different things. Just because it happens in one game doesn't mean it should happen in another.

[Ninja Mage]

Look Upsetting Shorts, I'm not trying to offend you or anyone who has "Saudi Arabia" features.

I'm just talking about Isabela herself, and how her ethnicity is coming off to me.

[Dhiro]

Cobrawar wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Cobrawar wrote...

King Killoth wrote...

how can any one say no ethnic diversity did no one notice sten or zev.. sten was tall darkskind and had a funny acsent and zev was a bi sexual italian elf.. not to mention Duncan was only half white he was part Rivain

 zevern was a bisexual italian elf????

Well, he was bissexual and a elf. Italian? Not so much, he striked me as spanish, but I'm not good with accents.

I always thought the orlesians were french, cuz I hated the french lol except for the Napoleonic era french they are so much better then modern day french

I'm sure of it, Snake Guerra. Anyway, Zevran isn't Orlesian.

[Fortlowe]

[spam image removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 05 janvier 2011 - 12:12 .

[AngelicMachinery]

drahelvete wrote...

I love how someone can make a passionate speech about ethnic diversity and tolerance one second, and then use words like "gypsy" and "half-breed" the next.
The preferred term is Romani.

Just to be clear: I'm not calling anyone a racist. If anything, I think this whole PC thing has gone way too far. Just thought it was funny.

I am sorry about using the word gypsy I was admittedly ignorant of it having negative connotations, the more you know right?