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M/M Romances, DAII Style


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#3426
mesmerizedish

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wulf3n wrote...

TheDarkBrotherhood wrote...

But it's not realistic to never see a gay person in the whole game either, is it? it's like homosexuality doesn't exist anymore, it's like i don't exist, but nobody's complaining, then why complain about them being bi?


Having eveyrone bi is just obvious pandering. Rather than risk having anyone whine about "That's totally unfair, i want to romance [character name], bioware must be homophobic" they just make practically everyone bi, as not to make too many waves.

I want bioware to take it in the other direction, design a character that's practially a mastubatory aid, then towards the end of the game, just when player thinks they're gonna get some, have the character turn around and say "sorry im gay, i thought you knew that? i just want to be friends."


Yes, because making all four romances bi wouldn't cause any waves at all. If they were looking to not make waves, they'd take the route they took with Origins. I think this is a definite step forward for us queer players.

#3427
Blue_Shayde

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Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Back to the gay sex part. Origins had many male NPCs. Any of you wanted to romance any of those NPCs with your Wardens? And more important, I wonder if Dragon Age II will have NPCs that would make us trade all our companions for one kiss...

But sadly, we never will. Greagoir for me.


Pffft. Gregoir and Irving were totally hooking up. You weren't going to break them up with your Warden. 


Hah! I wasn't the only one who suspected this! >8D


I wanted Tamlin w/ my mdalish. xD

#3428
Fenn_

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Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Back to the gay sex part. Origins had many male NPCs. Any of you wanted to romance any of those NPCs with your Wardens? And more important, I wonder if Dragon Age II will have NPCs that would make us trade all our companions for one kiss...

But sadly, we never will. Greagoir for me.


Pffft. Gregoir and Irving were totally hooking up. You weren't going to break them up with your Warden. 


Need brain bleach badly WHERE is the bleach! must block out Irving.

#3429
zrisso

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Dhiro wrote...

Back to the gay sex part. Origins had many male NPCs. Any of you wanted to romance any of those NPCs with your Wardens? And more important, I wonder if Dragon Age II will have NPCs that would make us trade all our companions for one kiss...

But sadly, we never will. Greagoir for me.


I am very interested in something Gaider (I believe?) said some time ago, and I'm certain has been several times since, about non-party LIs. Now, I could be retconning my own memory on the subject, but I specifically remember something about LIs, not a brothel or some such.

This could easily be something like the meaningless one-nighters we could have with a handful of NPCs in Origins, but I would like it if they explored the idea of actual romances.

Side note: Cullen <3

#3430
MorningBird

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RosaAquafire wrote...

No, I'd be okay with Hawke opening the characters up to exploring a bisexual relationship based on the choices he or she makes, that's not what I'm really talking about! There are definitely people out there who are bi but don't really realize it until the right person comes along. I'd be down with that, especially since Isabela is a "normal" bisexual, unless she's been retconned.
It's the idea that's been brought up that the Anders you meet with a Lady Hawke IS HETEROSEXUAL, and the Anders you meet with a MHawke IS BISEXUAL, and ne'er shall the two cross. I'm pretty sure Gaider has said that if he did "everyone is bi," he would do it that way, and would also have less gender specific dialogue.
That's what I'm worried about.


While I completely agree with you (honestly, I do) the problem is that not everyone wants the LI's to be 'openly' accessible to everyone.

There was a thread a while back (A Petition to make all of the LI's bisexual, I think it was called) that got a LOT of community flak from people who couldn't bear the thought of having all of the LI's bi.

I've spoken to different people about this, and they've all made varying arguments in opposition of having equal-opportunity LI's.  Some say it's unrealistic to have so many bi characters in their party.  Other's say they don't like sharing.  Some say they'd like the developers to spend their money on resources on other areas of the game.  Some say that they would never be able to see the LI's sexuality as subjective.

Whatever the reason, not every is okay with having the LI's 'openly' bi (though I doubt many people here care. :P)  Basically what I'm trying to say is, not everyone is as open to the idea of 'cemented' sexuality as you are, if it means that all of the LI's are going to be bi.

If that's the real case, and 'subjectivity' is the work around, I'll take the work around.  Gays and bisexuals are already under-represented in video games.  I'm not going to bite the hand that feeds me, as the saying goes.

All that being said, even if the sexuality is subjective, I don't think you have anything to worry about.  You could look at it this way.

Straight!Hawke: Hey there Anders, I hear you like the ladies!
Anders: Womenz.  They be awesome!
Straight!Hawke: *flirt icon dialogue* Well, you know, what about the men?

Now, if you're playing as a straight male Hawke, you're probably not going to pick the flirt dialogue.  You're probably going to pick a dialogue that's more relevant to your preferences.

A gay Hawke, on the other hand, can flirt, and that's where the exploration into Anders' sexuality begins.  Maybe he's open about it, maybe he's never thought about it before, etc... regardless, unless you specifically flirt with the character you'll never know.

It's not perfect, but at least this way people crying over having too many bisexuals in their party won't kick up such a fuss, and we'll be getting what we want as well!

Keep in mind though, these are just my assumptions of how it would play out.

#3431
Blue_Shayde

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it would be great if (I don't get Fenris), there was an elf NPC LI. Cause I'm really still bummed about not being able to change races when crafting your character. *hides behind Anders shield*

#3432
Fenn_

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Blue_Shayde wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Back to the gay sex part. Origins had many male NPCs. Any of you wanted to romance any of those NPCs with your Wardens? And more important, I wonder if Dragon Age II will have NPCs that would make us trade all our companions for one kiss...

But sadly, we never will. Greagoir for me.


Pffft. Gregoir and Irving were totally hooking up. You weren't going to break them up with your Warden. 


Hah! I wasn't the only one who suspected this! >8D


I wanted Tamlin w/ my mdalish. xD


Well he did say he would do anything for you.

#3433
Taleroth

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ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yes, because making all four romances bi wouldn't cause any waves at all. If they were looking to not make waves, they'd take the route they took with Origins. I think this is a definite step forward for us queer players.


Am I misunderstanding the concept of making waves?  Very very few players are truly going to care if their choice for romance is bi, so long as it's achievable by whatever gender they are playing as.  I just don't see it.  Which is to say they should be bi, so all players get their choice.  Too few are going to be upset by what other players can do to consider them worth accounting for.

I don't genuinely understand why it's taken so long to just go ahead and do it.  I don't see the waves.

Modifié par Taleroth, 27 février 2011 - 01:54 .


#3434
Dhiro

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zrisso wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Back to the gay sex part. Origins had many male NPCs. Any of you wanted to romance any of those NPCs with your Wardens? And more important, I wonder if Dragon Age II will have NPCs that would make us trade all our companions for one kiss...

But sadly, we never will. Greagoir for me.


I am very interested in something Gaider (I believe?) said some time ago, and I'm certain has been several times since, about non-party LIs. Now, I could be retconning my own memory on the subject, but I specifically remember something about LIs, not a brothel or some such.

This could easily be something like the meaningless one-nighters we could have with a handful of NPCs in Origins, but I would like it if they explored the idea of actual romances.

Side note: Cullen <3


I read about it, too. Now, Nathaniel will probably make a appearence in the game. I'd love a bi Nathaniel, even if he's not a 'full LI', so to speak.

#3435
GreyVsGray

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The only character who I'm pretty sure is totally straight is Anders. He pretty much says that all he wanted in Awakening was freedom and a hot girl.

#3436
Ryzaki

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Dhiro wrote...
My Warden is a bad, bad mage and need Greagoir to teach him about discipline.


...Brain bleach. I need it badly. 

Why not romance Jowan? 

#3437
TheDarkBrotherhood

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wulf3n wrote...

TheDarkBrotherhood wrote...

But it's not realistic to never see a gay person in the whole game either, is it? it's like homosexuality doesn't exist anymore, it's like i don't exist, but nobody's complaining, then why complain about them being bi?


Having eveyrone bi is just obvious pandering. Rather than risk having anyone whine about "That's totally unfair, i want to romance [character name], bioware must be homophobic" they just make practically everyone bi, as not to make too many waves.

I want bioware to take it in the other direction, design a character that's practially a mastubatory aid, then towards the end of the game, just when player thinks they're gonna get some, have the character turn around and say "sorry im gay, i thought you knew that? i just want to be friends."

You see, people will get mad when they say "sorry im gay, i thought you knew that? i just want to be friends.", but some people will also get mad if they said"sorry im straight, i thought you knew that? i just want to be friends.", so it's the same thing, that's the reason why BioWare might make them all bi, it has nothing to do with it being "realistic" because as i said it's not realistic to not see a gay person either, that being said, they could've easily showed us any openly gay couple(who are really gay, not bi) that aren't L.I or companions, because it's realistic, but they didn't.

#3438
Fenn_

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Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...
My Warden is a bad, bad mage and need Greagoir to teach him about discipline.


...Brain bleach. I need it badly. 

Why not romance Jowan? 


We are out of bleach:pinched:

#3439
Dhiro

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Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...
My Warden is a bad, bad mage and need Greagoir to teach him about discipline.


...Brain bleach. I need it badly. 

Why not romance Jowan? 


Why not romance Oghren? Because I don't want too. Jowan is fine, I suppose, I just like Greagoir more. And Varel. Hmm, I'm seeing something here...

#3440
Taleroth

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Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...
My Warden is a bad, bad mage and need Greagoir to teach him about discipline.


...Brain bleach. I need it badly. 

Why not romance Jowan? 

I would bromance him so hard.

#3441
zrisso

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TheDarkBrotherhood wrote...
...that being said, they could've easily showed us any openly gay couple(who are really gay, not bi) that aren't L.I or companions, because it's realistic, but they didn't.


Weren't Wade and whatshisface gay?

#3442
mesmerizedish

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Taleroth wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yes, because making all four romances bi wouldn't cause any waves at all. If they were looking to not make waves, they'd take the route they took with Origins. I think this is a definite step forward for us queer players.


Am I misunderstanding the concept of making waves?  Very very few players are truly going to care if their choice for romance is bi, so long as it's achievable by whatever gender they are playing as.  I just don't see it.  Which is to say they should be bi, so all players get their choice.  Too few are going to be upset by what other players can do to consider them worth accounting for.

I don't genuinely understand why it's taken so long to just go ahead and do it.  I don't see the waves.


Because the LGBT community is (aside from women) still the most persecuted demographic in America. "Omigods, you can gay sex anyone? They're turning our kids into rapists!" is a surprisingly common viewpoint.

#3443
RosaAquafire

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MorningBird wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

No, I'd be okay with Hawke opening the characters up to exploring a bisexual relationship based on the choices he or she makes, that's not what I'm really talking about! There are definitely people out there who are bi but don't really realize it until the right person comes along. I'd be down with that, especially since Isabela is a "normal" bisexual, unless she's been retconned.
It's the idea that's been brought up that the Anders you meet with a Lady Hawke IS HETEROSEXUAL, and the Anders you meet with a MHawke IS BISEXUAL, and ne'er shall the two cross. I'm pretty sure Gaider has said that if he did "everyone is bi," he would do it that way, and would also have less gender specific dialogue.
That's what I'm worried about.


*stuff*


And I get all of this -- it's one of several reasons why I think it would be a step back, in my opinion. People who don't want to share? People who are offended by the idea of a bisexual LI? That seems like a step back from Zevran and Leliana, as far as I'm concerned. We wouldn't want to make heterosexuals uncomfortable, after all.

But the main reason is that I just want characters to be characters, not gameplay features. That's what I LOVE about Dragon Age, what I LOVE about Bioware. Their characters are full, realized people, not just pieces of furniture in my personal story. And that's what I want :( :( :(

#3444
Ryzaki

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Dhiro wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...
My Warden is a bad, bad mage and need Greagoir to teach him about discipline.


...Brain bleach. I need it badly. 

Why not romance Jowan? 


Why not romance Oghren? Because I don't want too. Jowan is fine, I suppose, I just like Greagoir more. And Varel. Hmm, I'm seeing something here...


Because Oghren is with Felsi. :P 

Well Greagoir is Irving's. And I don't think the First Echanter will react well to you stealing his Knight Commander. 

#3445
Finis Valorum

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Blue_Shayde wrote...

I don't know. It was kind of odd discussing a shared shoe fetish with Leliana as a guy. xD


I quite liked my MCousland having that conversation with Leliana it fit the personality I had in mind for him.

#3446
Dhiro

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zrisso wrote...

TheDarkBrotherhood wrote...
...that being said, they could've easily showed us any openly gay couple(who are really gay, not bi) that aren't L.I or companions, because it's realistic, but they didn't.


Weren't Wade and whatshisface gay?


That depends of what do you think about 'realistic.' How can we know what Ferelden think about homosexual couples? And don't 'human noble' me, they were the nicest family someone would like to have, I wouldn't be surprised if they accepted it because they loved their son, and not because Ferelden think it's 'cool'.

#3447
TheDarkBrotherhood

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zrisso wrote...

TheDarkBrotherhood wrote...
...that being said, they could've easily showed us any openly gay couple(who are really gay, not bi) that aren't L.I or companions, because it's realistic, but they didn't.


Weren't Wade and whatshisface gay?

There's not proof he is gay and not bi.
EDIT: also Herren is a desire demon.

Modifié par TheDarkBrotherhood, 27 février 2011 - 02:01 .


#3448
Dhiro

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Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...
My Warden is a bad, bad mage and need Greagoir to teach him about discipline.


...Brain bleach. I need it badly. 

Why not romance Jowan? 


Why not romance Oghren? Because I don't want too. Jowan is fine, I suppose, I just like Greagoir more. And Varel. Hmm, I'm seeing something here...


Because Oghren is with Felsi. :P 

Well Greagoir is Irving's. And I don't think the First Echanter will react well to you stealing his Knight Commander. 


That why I have Storm of the Century. But meh, Varel, then. His armor is prettier.

#3449
zrisso

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TheDarkBrotherhood wrote...

Wasn't he a Desire demon, besides there's not proof he is gay and not bi.


I thought a writer (Gaider, again?) said that they were gay, and that the desire demon thing was a joke and not canon.

#3450
Taleroth

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ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yes, because making all four romances bi wouldn't cause any waves at all. If they were looking to not make waves, they'd take the route they took with Origins. I think this is a definite step forward for us queer players.


Am I misunderstanding the concept of making waves?  Very very few players are truly going to care if their choice for romance is bi, so long as it's achievable by whatever gender they are playing as.  I just don't see it.  Which is to say they should be bi, so all players get their choice.  Too few are going to be upset by what other players can do to consider them worth accounting for.

I don't genuinely understand why it's taken so long to just go ahead and do it.  I don't see the waves.


Because the LGBT community is (aside from women) still the most persecuted demographic in America. "Omigods, you can gay sex anyone? They're turning our kids into rapists!" is a surprisingly common viewpoint. 

 It's surprisingly common, yes.  Any amount of common beyond beyond Fox News and Westboro is a surprise.  But I truly don't see it as a controversy.  Am I expected to believe that Lelianna and Zevran cost more sales than they brought in?  I think our demographic (gamers) is already among the more progressive.