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[elirian_19]

plumededragop wrote...

elirian_19 wrote...

Greer wrote...

I'll take your word for it. I only ever tried Teagan with a female and Bella and Kaitlyn with a male. I haven't tried either of the females with a female or Teagan with a male yet.

You couldn't flirt with the girls as a female. Same goes for Teagan - only females could get him to open up.

mmm, in the Human Noble background, in Highever, I think you could flirt with the female elf in the beginning with your female Cousland.
I might go and see.

I meant a female warden couldn't flirt with Bella and Kaitlyn.

[catabuca]

Nefarious Asparagus wrote...

This is pretty late, but I think the people pulling out the "realism" argument are not taking into account that there is a difference between being bisexual and being flexible. Being gay or straight doesn't necessarily mean 100% exclusivity. I've known lesbians and gay men who have experienced occasional attraction to the opposite gender (hell, the man even happily married said woman) as well as straight people who have experienced attraction to the same, and that doesn't invalidate their preference (which is just that, a preference) or their identity as gay or straight.

I mean, the fact that I, nine times out of ten, prefer cake to pie doesn't mean I'm never going to eat pie for the rest of my life or that there aren't types of pie I quite like. At the same time, the fact that I like a couple pies does not in any way mean that my liking of pie is even remotely equal to my love of cake. I'm still a cake lover, when all is said and done.

I think there being four members of your party who are flexible but not necessarily bisexual is well within the realm of probability. And I hope there are. Crow will never have tasted so delicious.

Anyone who can link cake and sex in such a convincing way is a keeper, in my book.

But since you said you're not averse to pie, here, have a slice of bi-pie ...

*gives pie*

[scootermcgaffin]

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

elirian_19 wrote...
EDIT: Anyway, I'm done arguing about this. The back and forth exchange is getting exhausting. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

Me too, I'm sick of it. I've also noticed we're not having a discussion about m/m romances DAII style, only about who they are.

I wonder how the romances will be handled. As much as I liked Zevran, I would prefer it if the m/m doesn't take men as second best because he actually prefers women. Also Zevran's angle was that he was raised with an open mind so to speak (that being the explanation why he's unabashed about expressing his interest). I'd like a guy who wasn't raised that way but still knows what he likes.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the m/m option having a preference for one sex/gender or the other, and there's not even anything wrong with stating it, once. The problem comes when, like Zevran, his bisexuality is "explained away" and his preference is stated repeatedly (either through outright statement or stories that are, with one exception, about women). 

[catabuca]

Goldcrest wrote...


Bisexuals don't have to be equally attracted to men and women.

I don't think they were necessarily suggesting otherwise. I believe they were merely talking about people who identify as gay or lesbian or straight still being able to have had some kind of intimate moments of awesomeness with someone of the same or opposite sex and it not 'invalidate' their identification as gay or lesbian or straight.

We can argue the Kinsey scale until we're blue in the face ... but there are still some people who will choose to identify one way or the other and what you choose to call yourself is fine. I guess.

Well, that's what I got from what you quoted at least.

[Ryzaki]

I don't care about not being equally attracted. Just have enough tact not to say it while you were flirting with someone else. I mean I prefer guys with long hair. I wouldn't tell a guy I was dating that if he had short hair. (Unless I was suggesting he grow it out. ) And I certainly wouldn't mention past boyfriends I had with long hair and how sexy they were. 

Though maybe that's just differences in cultures. 

Though yeah if Anders says he's been thinking about thinks since Vengence (that abomination isn't Justice anymore) took over. Unfortunate implications ahoy. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 février 2011 - 05:37 .

[catabuca]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

There's nothing inherently wrong with the m/m option having a preference for one sex/gender or the other, and there's not even anything wrong with stating it, once. The problem comes when, like Zevran, his bisexuality is "explained away" and his preference is stated repeatedly (either through outright statement or stories that are, with one exception, about women). 

Yep. I don't think there's anything wrong with stating it several times either, but when you're telling your male partner that you prefer women over and over you've got to think for a moment 'wait, I thought you were with me'. This goes for straight relationships too. If a guy tells his girl 'honey, you're great, but you know I've always preferred red-heads' repeated times, well I think she's going to get pissed off.

But beyond that, yes, it's the idea that there needs to be an 'excuse' for being bisexual. The idea that a character can't simply just be that way, but there has to be a reason. Why?

I don't think DAO alone is enough to state that BW always create a reason for the gay ... we'll have to wait and see how they handle it in DA2.

[scootermcgaffin]

Yeah, for sure. I don't think they're going to do it again, I just hope they don't.

Although if I hear Anders say "I've been a lot more open to things since Justice took over" I will...well, I will complain about it on the forums, and be drowned out by other people complaining louder about more insignificant things.

[elirian_19]

Vengeance likes bondage. TRUFAX.

[catabuca]

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't care about not being equally attracted.

It would be nice if the bi guy was more attracted to men for once is all.

I agree.

You know though, there's only so far we can go with realism in video games before it becomes too stressful. In my opinion, if there are going to be bisexual characters (as opposed to gay or lesbian exclusively), then it's just easier all round if they a) never state a preference at all; or if they simply have to talk about their preferences, then they state they like men and women equally. That way, no one is shafted. It would be great if the bi guy said he was attracted more to men and in fact it's something I'd really love to see from a purely selfish and personal pov, but then in the next game do they have to balance out the quota again by making the next bi guy more attracted to women, and so on and so on?

Of course, there's always the subjective sexuality option ... but that's not really relevant in this case, because they wouldn't be identifying as bisexual in the game anyway.

[Nefarious Asparagus]

Goldcrest wrote...

Nefarious Asparagus wrote...

This is pretty late, but I think the people pulling out the "realism" argument are not taking into account that there is a difference between being bisexual and being flexible. Being gay or straight doesn't necessarily mean 100% exclusivity. I've known lesbians and gay men who have experienced occasional attraction to the opposite gender (hell, the man even happily married said woman) as well as straight people who have experienced attraction to the same, and that doesn't invalidate their preference (which is just that, a preference) or their identity as gay or straight.

I mean, the fact that I, nine times out of ten, prefer cake to pie doesn't mean I'm never going to eat pie for the rest of my life or that there aren't types of pie I quite like. At the same time, the fact that I like a couple pies does not in any way mean that my liking of pie is even remotely equal to my love of cake. I'm still a cake lover, when all is said and done.

I think there being four members of your party who are flexible but not necessarily bisexual is well within the realm of probability. And I hope there are. Crow will never have tasted so delicious.

Bisexuals don't have to be equally attracted to men and women.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that you don't have to be 100% attracted to the same gender with no exceptions to be gay or 100% attracted to the opposite gender with no exceptions to be straight. People who are arguing about realism seem to be under the impression that it means the LIs will all identify as bisexual, which isn't really necessary for it to work.

[Ryzaki]

catabuca wrote...
I agree.

You know though, there's only so far we can go with realism in video games before it becomes too stressful. In my opinion, if there are going to be bisexual characters (as opposed to gay or lesbian exclusively), then it's just easier all round if they a) never state a preference at all; or if they simply have to talk about their preferences, then they state they like men and women equally. That way, no one is shafted. It would be great if the bi guy said he was attracted more to men and in fact it's something I'd really love to see from a purely selfish and personal pov, but then in the next game do they have to balance out the quota again by making the next bi guy more attracted to women, and so on and so on?

Of course, there's always the subjective sexuality option ... but that's not really relevant in this case, because they wouldn't be identifying as bisexual in the game anyway.

Ah true. I just don't like the preferences switching thing. It's odd. I much rather exclusively gay/lesiban characters. 

Though I wonder if flirting is limited by the character's sexual preferences like in DA1? You could only flirt with Teagan, Bella, and Kaitlyn (And Cammen/Ghenya/Tamlen) in a heterosexual manner. 

Edit: Is it okay if I upload the scan to imageshack? The links down. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 février 2011 - 05:57 .

[catabuca]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah true. I just don't like the preferences switching thing. It's odd. I much rather exclusively gay/lesiban characters. 

Though I wonder if flirting is limited by the character's sexual preferences like in DA1? You could only flirt with Teagan, Bella, and Kaitlyn (And Cammen/Ghenya/Tamlen) in a heterosexual manner. 

It would be nice to have exclusively gay or lesbian characters, if for no other reason than they have never been represented in this way before when exclusively straight characters have. The 'realistic' approach would be to have some straight, some bi, and some gay/lesbian LIs, but I accept the devs' reasoning about resources (perhaps things will change in the future, but for now I guess that's just where resource management is at).

Since the whole spectrum of LIs isn't currently an option, however, I think in the meantime making all LIs bisexual really is the best of both worlds. That way everyone gets what they want (to an extent), and everyone has the same choice as everyone else. Because that's what it comes down to: all gamers having the same choices in front of them. And as the good Ser Gaider said himself, it's safe to assume that if they did go down the 'everyone is bi' route, they wouldn't try and implement it in the worst possible way, but would find a way to write those characters convincingly and non-offensively.

And I'm interested in whether gender and sexual preference has any bearing on flirt lines too. Especially in light of the debate we had earlier, during 'Heartgate' as I like to call it. In DAO, you could flirt with and get a peck on the cheek off whatsherface and whatsherface, but only if you were a guy. There was no option for a female GW to flirt and get told 'no thanks'. Will it be the same in DA2? Can only mHawke flirt with Aveline and get knocked back, or can fHawke too? The answer, of course, has some bearing on the Fenris heart screenshot ... since it is mHawke who has a heart dialogue option. If you can't flirt with people of your own gender (when they are not romanceable by you) then it means Fenris is romanceable by mHawke. But I suspect both genders will be able to flirt with any of the flirtable characters this time around -- indeed I hope it's the case because it's another way your Hawke can express their sexuality outside of a romance.

[elirian_19]

Ryzaki wrote...

catabuca wrote...
I agree.

You know though, there's only so far we can go with realism in video games before it becomes too stressful. In my opinion, if there are going to be bisexual characters (as opposed to gay or lesbian exclusively), then it's just easier all round if they a) never state a preference at all; or if they simply have to talk about their preferences, then they state they like men and women equally. That way, no one is shafted. It would be great if the bi guy said he was attracted more to men and in fact it's something I'd really love to see from a purely selfish and personal pov, but then in the next game do they have to balance out the quota again by making the next bi guy more attracted to women, and so on and so on?

Of course, there's always the subjective sexuality option ... but that's not really relevant in this case, because they wouldn't be identifying as bisexual in the game anyway.

Ah true. I just don't like the preferences switching thing. It's odd. I much rather exclusively gay/lesiban characters. 

Though I wonder if flirting is limited by the character's sexual preferences like in DA1? You could only flirt with Teagan, Bella, and Kaitlyn (And Cammen/Ghenya/Tamlen) in a heterosexual manner. 

Edit: Is it okay if I upload the scan to imageshack? The links down. 

Can you imagine the complete and utter chaos if BioWare ever did decide to do an exclusive m/m option. First he would be revealed, turn out to look pretty awesome and have lots of fangirls following him and then the forums would fall into a dark oblivion of fangirl rage once it was revealed he would only be available as a m/m option.

[demonic_cookie]

Returning to the romances.... >_>

Does anyone else want to see a 'virginal' (hate that word) bisexual LI? Zevran was a man**** (love the guy, but he was), Leliana had quite a lot of history... Isabela too, obviously. I'm still holding my breath for Fenris; I'd really like mHawke to be his first relationship ever (or at least first that he can remember, taking the amnesia into account) but I doubt it would happen, because of course no one can be both badass and a virgin >_< Certainly not a man, no.

[plumededragop]

catabuca wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah true. I just don't like the preferences switching thing. It's odd. I much rather exclusively gay/lesiban characters. 

Though I wonder if flirting is limited by the character's sexual preferences like in DA1? You could only flirt with Teagan, Bella, and Kaitlyn (And Cammen/Ghenya/Tamlen) in a heterosexual manner. 

It would be nice to have exclusively gay or lesbian characters, if for no other reason than they have never been represented in this way before when exclusively straight characters have. The 'realistic' approach would be to have some straight, some bi, and some gay/lesbian LIs, but I accept the devs' reasoning about resources (perhaps things will change in the future, but for now I guess that's just where resource management is at).

Since the whole spectrum of LIs isn't currently an option, however, I think in the meantime making all LIs bisexual really is the best of both worlds. That way everyone gets what they want (to an extent), and everyone has the same choice as everyone else. Because that's what it comes down to: all gamers having the same choices in front of them. And as the good Ser Gaider said himself, it's safe to assume that if they did go down the 'everyone is bi' route, they wouldn't try and implement it in the worst possible way, but would find a way to write those characters convincingly and non-offensively.

And I'm interested in whether gender and sexual preference has any bearing on flirt lines too. Especially in light of the debate we had earlier, during 'Heartgate' as I like to call it. In DAO, you could flirt with and get a peck on the cheek off whatsherface and whatsherface, but only if you were a guy. There was no option for a female GW to flirt and get told 'no thanks'. Will it be the same in DA2? Can only mHawke flirt with Aveline and get knocked back, or can fHawke too? The answer, of course, has some bearing on the Fenris heart screenshot ... since it is mHawke who has a heart dialogue option. If you can't flirt with people of your own gender (when they are not romanceable by you) then it means Fenris is romanceable by mHawke. But I suspect both genders will be able to flirt with any of the flirtable characters this time around -- indeed I hope it's the case because it's another way your Hawke can express their sexuality outside of a romance.

Indeed, it's a tricky question. Because if we can't flirt people of your own gender, we have a definite answer. But yes, I think you'll be able to flirt with anyone, regardless of sexuality... though I've to admit that the first reason would clearly be good to me. But yeah, I'm quite realistic.

[elirian_19]

catabuca wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah true. I just don't like the preferences switching thing. It's odd. I much rather exclusively gay/lesiban characters. 

Though I wonder if flirting is limited by the character's sexual preferences like in DA1? You could only flirt with Teagan, Bella, and Kaitlyn (And Cammen/Ghenya/Tamlen) in a heterosexual manner. 

It would be nice to have exclusively gay or lesbian characters, if for no other reason than they have never been represented in this way before when exclusively straight characters have. The 'realistic' approach would be to have some straight, some bi, and some gay/lesbian LIs, but I accept the devs' reasoning about resources (perhaps things will change in the future, but for now I guess that's just where resource management is at).

Since the whole spectrum of LIs isn't currently an option, however, I think in the meantime making all LIs bisexual really is the best of both worlds. That way everyone gets what they want (to an extent), and everyone has the same choice as everyone else. Because that's what it comes down to: all gamers having the same choices in front of them. And as the good Ser Gaider said himself, it's safe to assume that if they did go down the 'everyone is bi' route, they wouldn't try and implement it in the worst possible way, but would find a way to write those characters convincingly and non-offensively.

And I'm interested in whether gender and sexual preference has any bearing on flirt lines too. Especially in light of the debate we had earlier, during 'Heartgate' as I like to call it. In DAO, you could flirt with and get a peck on the cheek off whatsherface and whatsherface, but only if you were a guy. There was no option for a female GW to flirt and get told 'no thanks'. Will it be the same in DA2? Can only mHawke flirt with Aveline and get knocked back, or can fHawke too? The answer, of course, has some bearing on the Fenris heart screenshot ... since it is mHawke who has a heart dialogue option. If you can't flirt with people of your own gender (when they are not romanceable by you) then it means Fenris is romanceable by mHawke. But I suspect both genders will be able to flirt with any of the flirtable characters this time around -- indeed I hope it's the case because it's another way your Hawke can express their sexuality outside of a romance.

I guess flirting with Fenris as a guy even if he did turn out to be the straight LI would be pretty cool in a RP kind of way, but there's no way I would enjoy being shot down when I want him so much to be a bi option.

It's that little thing that's making me say, "Oh God please no."

[falconlord5]

elirian_19 wrote...


Can you imagine the complete and utter chaos if BioWare ever did decide to do an exclusive m/m option. First he would be revealed, turn out to look pretty awesome and have lots of fangirls following him and then the forums would fall into a dark oblivion of fangirl rage once it was revealed he would only be available as a m/m option.

The nerdrage... the epic freakin' nerdrage...

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Ryzaki]

elirian_19 wrote...
Can you imagine the complete and utter chaos if BioWare ever did decide to do an exclusive m/m option. First he would be revealed, turn out to look pretty awesome and have lots of fangirls following him and then the forums would fall into a dark oblivion of fangirl rage once it was revealed he would only be available as a m/m option.

That's one reason why I want it. Just for the epic "OMG WHY?!?" from the fangirls. It will be glorious.  All the qq'ing and the rage such sweet, sweet, tears. They shall sustain the devs for centuries. CENTURIES! 

Though the devs will be pretty well fed if Fenris isn't the bi LI from me. 

demonic_cookie wrote...

Returning to the romances.... >_>

Does anyone else want to see a 'virginal' (hate that word) bisexual LI? Zevran was a man**** (love the guy, but he was), Leliana had quite a lot of history... Isabela too, obviously. I'm still holding my breath for Fenris; I'd really like mHawke to be his first relationship ever (or at least first that he can remember, taking the amnesia into account) but I doubt it would happen, because of course no one can be both badass and a virgin >_< Certainly not a man, no.

I would be different. I don't mind the LIs having histories (heck I prefer it. Carth Syndrome on the other hand.  ) so I wouldn't mind one way or another. 

Though lulz we all know badasses can't be virgins. It's impossible.  
 
Edit: @Catabuca: Yeah it would be nice to flirt with everyone and get turned down if you don't met their preferences. And plus it would be nice for my M!Hawke to flirt with Varric.  Ah that beautiful pic. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 février 2011 - 06:12 .

[catabuca]

falconlord5 wrote...

elirian_19 wrote...


Can you imagine the complete and utter chaos if BioWare ever did decide to do an exclusive m/m option. First he would be revealed, turn out to look pretty awesome and have lots of fangirls following him and then the forums would fall into a dark oblivion of fangirl rage once it was revealed he would only be available as a m/m option.

The nerdrage... the epic freakin' nerdrage...

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I guess there'd be no more nerdrage than we see when Varric wasn't an LI, or when a particular guy isn't a bi LI.

But yes, nerdrage there certainly would be.

[Fenn_]

Ryzaki wrote...

elirian_19 wrote...
Can you imagine the complete and utter chaos if BioWare ever did decide to do an exclusive m/m option. First he would be revealed, turn out to look pretty awesome and have lots of fangirls following him and then the forums would fall into a dark oblivion of fangirl rage once it was revealed he would only be available as a m/m option.

That's one reason why I want it. Just for the epic "OMG WHY?!?" from the fangirls. It will be glorious.  All the qq'ing and the rage such sweet, sweet, tears. They shall sustain the devs for centuries. CENTURIES! 

demonic_cookie wrote...

Returning to the romances.... >_>

Does anyone else want to see a 'virginal' (hate that word) bisexual LI? Zevran was a man**** (love the guy, but he was), Leliana had quite a lot of history... Isabela too, obviously. I'm still holding my breath for Fenris; I'd really like mHawke to be his first relationship ever (or at least first that he can remember, taking the amnesia into account) but I doubt it would happen, because of course no one can be both badass and a virgin >_< Certainly not a man, no.

I would be different. I don't mind the LIs having histories (heck I prefer it. Carth Syndrome on the other hand.  ) so I wouldn't mind one way or another. 

Though lulz we all know badasses can't be virgins. It's impossible.  

Was quite possible for my Sheperd and my Warden. Hmm I see you liked my sig.

[demonic_cookie]

I don't mind the LIs having histories (heck I prefer it

Oh I don't mind histories either. A large part of why I love Zevran and Isabela is because of their varied histories. It's just if people are requesting LIs to be 'different', I thought it would be nice to have a non-promiscuous bisexual character for a change.

[elirian_19]

Fenn wrote...

Hmm I see you liked my sig.

Yes. <3<3<3

It's... glorious. And I hope you don't mind.

[Saibh]

LiaraShepard wrote...

Ahh sorry, I chose the wrong words. of course you can flirt with straight NPC's but not when you're the same gender. That was my point. @saibh

But only when they reciprocated. You could flirt with Dairren or Iona, because because, if you did, they were interested in you, too. In DAII, we know for a fact you'll be able to flirt with people who aren't going to.

My point being, just because DAO didn't let you, doesn't mean DAII won't either. For a long time people have asked for the ability to flirt with whomever you want, even if they're not interested. In DAII, we know we'll be able to do that. That could be what we're seeing with Fenris.

It's not cruel. After all, you can flirt with Aveline. And, no, that's not any different than being able to flirt with a straight LI. It's not like too many people outside these forums will know who the LIs are before they play. By your logic, it's cruel to let you flirt with Aveline (or Varric) if they don't feel the same because you can't be in a relationship with them.

I just wouldn't think that way. Instead, there will be times when you can flirt with someone and be turned down, just like in real life. A bigger roleplaying angle.

[Ryzaki]

elirian_19 wrote...

Fenn wrote...

Hmm I see you liked my sig.

Yes. <3<3<3

It's... glorious. And I hope you don't mind.

Yes. 

And I'm not giving it back Fenn.  *runs* 

Though yeah only the PC can be virigins. (though the game assumes their experienced and good lovers). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 février 2011 - 06:20 .

[Fenn_]

elirian_19 wrote...

Fenn wrote...

Hmm I see you liked my sig.

Yes. <3<3<3

It's... glorious. And I hope you don't mind.

I don't mind just be sure to thank Panamakira she made it.