8194 réponses à ce sujet

[Eudaemonium]

yukidama wrote...

I dunno, Eudaemonium. Compelling arguments could be made for whose opinion counts more xD

Debate time! Woo! XD

And thanks guys. It just really chapped my ass that in showing my support I was basically told to shut up because my liking Varric as an s/s option was insulting since it would detract from a "good" LI for gay/bi people (aka not Varric, aka a more conventionally attractive man). If it were up to me every option would be bi, and I know Varric's chances of being an LI are pretty much 0 but a girl can dream xD

Personally, I would have thought Varric would be breaking stereotypes as the bi-option. Fenris, for example, would fit into the effeminate-looking elf category and would thus conform physically to more stereotypical depictions of gay or bisexual men (personality notwithstanding). Of course, Fenris would make a perfectly good bisexual LI (I'd be perfectly happy that he was); his personality seems to be the stoic, meditative warrior-type, and thus buck stereotypes. Varric, however, would fit within the typical 'bisexual rogue' thing they had going in Origins.

I can see compelling arguments for both. And that's before you add "Anders" into the mix. Both Varric and Fenris would buck cetain stereotypes in the depictions of non-heterosexual characters, albeit in different ways.

[Blue_Shayde]

Like I said. Varric isn't my cup of tea. But it would make for a possibly very interesting and fun s/s pairing. xD

I think no matter what, some stereotype will happen...cause in the end, almost everything has already been done once somehow, somewhere. Both Varric and Fenris would make for good LI, though, and would spare us from being stuck with only human LI. Maybe Varric, Fenris, and Anders (or sebastien) will all be LI? Three choices, one of each race, and not all the men would be bi cause there's still other male characters in the party.

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 06 février 2011 - 11:07 .

[mellifera]

Yeah. I mean, I clearly have my preferences but I'm not about to say to someone "Ugh, another bi elf? What is wrong with you? Why do you want to further that stereotype?" if they want Fenris to be the s/s LI. It's overly simplistic and deliberately obtuse, and there are compelling arguments for all of them. I was just annoyed in being told to basically shut up and go away because of my opinion though, and that it was selfish of me to want to deprive bi/gay people of an actually attractive LI (attractive in their opinion, since I find Varric plenty attractive).

Modifié par yukidama, 06 février 2011 - 11:12 .

[Saibh]

yukidama wrote...

Yeah. I mean, I clearly have my preferences but I'm not about to say to someone "Ugh, another bi elf? What is wrong with you? Why do you want to further that stereotype?" if they want Fenris to be the s/s LI. It's overly simplistic and there -are- compelling arguments for all of them. I was just annoyed in being told to basically shut up and go away because of my opinion though, and that it was selfish of me to want to deprive bi/gay people of an actually attractive LI (attractive in their opinion, since I find Varric plenty attractive).

To be fair, there is no real stereotype with elves being gay or bisexual. We are tricking ourselves into believing there's is one, because we associate elves with being effeminate. Fenris doesn't appear to be effeminate. If anything, Varric would be stereotyped as yet another rogue bisexual LI. Of all of them, only one (Liara) has not been a rogue. Sky, Silk Fox, Zevran, Leliana, and Isabela are all rogues.

[Blue_Shayde]

I understand, Yuki. I'm getting the same opposition for wanting Fenris. xD Still...I vote for Varric, Fenris, and Anders (Or Sebastien).

In that case, wouldn't all genders and orientations be happy like Gaider said? Gays get a elf, human, and dwarf. Straight guys get possibly two humans and a elf (unless they want a dwarf to, then we need a female dwarf introduced! xD). Straight girls would get human, elf, and dwarf (if truly bi optional). Now we just need three for the lesbians. =) Isabela (human), Myrril (elf and i probably spelled her name wrong), and a third girl to their taste.

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 06 février 2011 - 11:15 .

[HopHazzard]

yukidama wrote...

I dunno, Eudaemonium. Compelling arguments could be made for whose opinion counts more xD

And thanks guys. It just really chapped my ass that in showing my support I was basically told to shut up because my liking Varric as an s/s option was insulting since it would detract from a "good" LI for gay/bi people (aka not Varric, aka a more conventionally attractive man). If it were up to me every option would be bi, and I know Varric's chances of being an LI are pretty much 0 but a girl can dream xD

Well, I'm a gay guy and I'd be more than happy to have Varric as an LI. I wouldn't find it insulting at all. Though I do know it's unlikely, and I understand from the writers' perspective when they've already got a limited amount of resources to spend on a feature that a minority of players are going to use, they have to make that as broadly appealing as possible.

It seems like they're switching it up this time. In DA:O the ladies got Leliana who was presented as the "good girl", this time they get Isabela who definitely has the "bad girl" vibe. Maybe since the guys got "bad boy" Zevran last time, we'll get the "nice guy" this time around. Don't know who that is though.

Modifié par HopHazzard, 06 février 2011 - 11:15 .

[Blue_Shayde]

*pouts* but bad is good. >8)

[Eudaemonium]

Sadly, I doubt we'll get more than 4 LIs (same number as Origins) . And Isabela is confirmed, and is most likely the female bi option (would be shockingly strange if she wasn't) .

I'd be perfectly happy for any of the announced characters to be LIs, heterosexual or bisexual. I wouldn;t even mind Sebastian, I just have my doubts regarding him due to his DLC status. I also think, for example, if Seb was the only bisexual male LI it would send a pretty bad message to the fans. I'd be fine with him being another bi male LI, though - alongside Fenris, or Varric or "Anders".

EDIT:

HopHazzard wrote...

Well,
I'm a gay guy and I'd be more than happy to have Varric as an LI. I
wouldn't find it insulting at all. Though I do know it's unlikely, and I
understand from the writers' perspective when they've already got a
limited amount of resources to spend on a feature that a minority of
players are going to use, they have to make that as broadly appealing as
possible.

It seems like they're switching it up this time. In
DA:O the ladies got Leliana who was presented as the "good girl", this
time they get Isabela who definitely has the "bad girl" vibe. Maybe
since the guys got "bad boy" Zevran last time, we'll get the "nice guy"
this time around. Don't know who that is though.

I think what I'm most interested in is the devs' remarks that they were trying different things with the LIs this time. the issue is that 'different' is open to a lot of interpretation. For example, Varric as a dwarf would be different, but he seems to embody a 'charming rogue'-type of character which has frequently been romancable. Fenris is a handsome elven male, but is also apparently stoic, meditative, and focused (maybe similar in some ways to Sten). To be honest, as much as I would like Varric to be an LI, my money is probably going on Fenris and "Anders" as the male LIs. Which one will be the M/M is a matter of debate in my mind though.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 06 février 2011 - 11:26 .

[HopHazzard]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

*pouts* but bad is good. >8)

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed Zevran, and romanced him on more than one playthrough. But I wouldn't mind something different. Not (as I've said) that I would kick apparent bad boy Varric out of bed if I had the opportunity, but it would be a nice change to get the shy, nice guy this time.

[mellifera]

I know Saibh, which is why I said it was overly simplistic and deliberately obtuse. My issue doesn't lie in him being an elf or whatever, it lies in being told that Varric was basically too gross to me a s/s LI and that I was being a selfish jerk because I wanted to deprive gay/bi men of an "attractive" LI choice. I don't really care if an elf ends up being the male s/s option since that whole "it's not gay if it's an elf" idea is probably one of my pet peeves. My irritation stems from being told that I am not "allowed" to have an opinion on such matters, especially when I support s/s for all genders and have always been an ally and activist for gay rights, because I also happen to not mind/prefer if a dwarf were one. Whether or not he will be, I don't know. I doubt he'll be an LI at all, but that's not really my point anyway.

Modifié par yukidama, 06 février 2011 - 11:24 .

[Dhiro]

Varric don't strikes me as a bad boy at all. Not a saint, maybe, but not a bad boy.

[Ryzaki]

yukidama wrote...

I dunno, I think Varric/male Hawke is plenty hot (courtesy of Aimo ). Then again, I've been told that because I am not a gay guy I shouldn't have an opinion on this matter, so maybe I'll shut up.

(See? Artsy types love Varric too )

*blinks*

That pic has just converted me to a Varric shipper.

[HopHazzard]

Eudaemonium wrote...

Sadly, I doubt we'll get more than 4 LIs (same number as Origins) . And Isabela is confirmed, and is most likely the female bi option (would be shockingly strange if she wasn't) .

I'd be perfectly happy for any of the announced characters to be LIs, heterosexual or bisexual. I wouldn;t even mind Sebastian, I just have my doubts regarding him due to his DLC status. I also think, for example, if Seb was the only bisexual male LI it would send a pretty bad message to the fans. I'd be fine with him being another bi male LI, though - alongside Fenris, or Varric or "Anders".

I wouldn't object to DLC characters being romanceable. In fact, it might add to their appeal. And there's probably a lot of justification for making any DLC romance character a bi option since the idea would be to appeal to the broadest range of consumers possible. It would bother me though, if you had all options but m/m present in the vanilla game, but had to buy your m/m character if you wanted it. Honestly, I think the DA team is smarter than that though.

[Fenn_]

Yukidama don't let them tell you what your opinion should be. I want Fenris as the S/S simply because he seems more interesting to me but Varric seems cool to.

[mellifera]

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I dunno, I think Varric/male Hawke is plenty hot (courtesy of Aimo ). Then again, I've been told that because I am not a gay guy I shouldn't have an opinion on this matter, so maybe I'll shut up.

(See? Artsy types love Varric too )

*blinks*

That pic has just converted me to a Varric shipper.

[HopHazzard]

Dhiro wrote...

Varric don't strikes me as a bad boy at all. Not a saint, maybe, but not a bad boy.

Maybe not in the same way Zevran was, but he definitely seems to be the most morally flexible character of the male companions introduced so far. At the very least he seems the sort you'd warn your daughter away from.

[KawaiiKatie]

HopHazzard wrote...

Maybe since the guys got "bad boy" Zevran last time, we'll get the "nice guy" this time around. Don't know who that is though.

Oh, I want this so bad! Zevran was great, especially for a guy who knows what he wants and isn't afraid to go after it. But in DA2, I want a shy, Leliana-ish boy, very polite and soft-spoken about his desires... He just kind of shuffles and says, "Have I ever told you... I like your hair...?"

WAAAAAAAAAAANT.

[Eudaemonium]

HopHazzard wrote...

I wouldn't object to DLC characters being romanceable. In fact, it might add to their appeal. And there's probably a lot of justification for making any DLC romance character a bi option since the idea would be to appeal to the broadest range of consumers possible. It would bother me though, if you had all options but m/m present in the vanilla game, but had to buy your m/m character if you wanted it. Honestly, I think the DA team is smarter than that though.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I actually think the idea of romancable DLC characters (of any orientation) would be an interesting choice (bi would make most sense to maximise the character's interactions). Its just if M/M wasn't in the default game it'd be, well... a really stupid decision, and somewhat insulting. Particularly since Sebastian doesn't even come free in the standard game (like Shale did).

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Oh,
I want this so bad! Zevran was great, especially for a guy who knows
what he wants and isn't afraid to go after it. But in DA2, I want a shy,
Leliana-ish boy, very polite and soft-spoken about his desires... He
just kind of shuffles and says, "Have I ever told you... I like your
hair...?"

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie] WAAAAAAAAAAANT.

Now that would certainly be different.

Also, (and I know this isn't really what you were pointing to) The character possibly exploring his awakening sexuality would be a direction I don't think I've seen in games (well, okay, Kanji in Persona 4 kinda fits that). Even Leliana was very clear about her sexual preferences, as sweet and shy as she was.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 06 février 2011 - 11:34 .

[Blue_Shayde]

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I dunno, I think Varric/male Hawke is plenty hot (courtesy of Aimo ). Then again, I've been told that because I am not a gay guy I shouldn't have an opinion on this matter, so maybe I'll shut up.

(See? Artsy types love Varric too )

*blinks*

That pic has just converted me to a Varric shipper.

 I just realized that was a linked picture.................damn you yuki. <_< that is a bit on the hot side. xD (nuuu! My brain is conflicted now between my anti-dwarf tastes and the hot piccy. xD)


my only thought is, Sebastien shouldn't be the only bi LI. since he IS a dlc. That would be there way of completely avoiding putting a bi male LI in the game (making the homophobes happy), but still let us bi lovers get our guy. And that feels...like a very jackass way to do things after how they bravely gave us gay romance in DOA. So him as a second bi LI is cool, but he'd better not be the only bi LI.

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 06 février 2011 - 11:36 .

[Dhiro]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

Maybe since the guys got "bad boy" Zevran last time, we'll get the "nice guy" this time around. Don't know who that is though.

Oh, I want this so bad! Zevran was great, especially for a guy who knows what he wants and isn't afraid to go after it. But in DA2, I want a shy, Leliana-ish boy, very polite and soft-spoken about his desires... He just kind of shuffles and says, "Have I ever told you... I like your hair...?"

WAAAAAAAAAAANT.

I don't think you will get it. Varric is obviously not this type of guy, and if it's really 'Anders' we know he isn't this way. And then there's Fenris, the 'stoic'.

[Blue_Shayde]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

Maybe since the guys got "bad boy" Zevran last time, we'll get the "nice guy" this time around. Don't know who that is though.

Oh, I want this so bad! Zevran was great, especially for a guy who knows what he wants and isn't afraid to go after it. But in DA2, I want a shy, Leliana-ish boy, very polite and soft-spoken about his desires... He just kind of shuffles and says, "Have I ever told you... I like your hair...?"

WAAAAAAAAAAANT.

If Fenris pulled that stunt, I'd have to smack him. With my staff...and not the fun-time one. *shakes her head* I'm expecting a rivalry romance out of him! xD

[Fenn_]

Fenris reminds me of Cloud Strife the back story anyway. I like stoic characters to it's really interesting finding out what makes them tick.

Modifié par Fenn , 06 février 2011 - 11:39 .

[mellifera]

Yeah, I wouldn't want the male s/s option to be DLC. That would be messed up, as adorable as Seb and his MURRRDUUUURRR is. I doubt BioWare would do that, anyway.

[HopHazzard]

I'm leaning toward 'not Anders' though anything is possible. And yeah, he's anything but shy. As for Fenris, I could see a romance arc where you have to sort of work to bring him out of his shell and open up his heart to the possibility of love as being rewarding.

[Blue_Shayde]

^ What I'd like to. But for guys, it would be through good ol' fashion rivalry. A little knocking the heads to get him out of that shell. Cause the difficult paths are the fun ones.

I think i agree that we'll get two, and it'll be Fenris and one of the humans. I only think Varric wouldn't be a choice, because he's the narrator. That's the only reason...now...I did not save that pic, I swear it. >.>

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 06 février 2011 - 11:42 .