8194 réponses à ce sujet

[Blue_Shayde]

Carfax wrote...

Wow, if this is true then it's absolutely disgusting.. Bioware really scraped the bottom of the barrel with this one; or perhaps I should be more specific by stating the DA2 team did. The Mass Effect team would never entertain such a ridiculous notion as this.

Not only does it break immersion completely by having all perspective LIs be bisexual (LGBT comprise about 3 or 4% of the population), but it cheapens all the romances, and the characters themselves by making them conform to the expectations and the desires of the PC.

The LIs exist only so that the PC can get his/her rocks off. They have no desires outside of what the PC enforces on them.

For a developer that has always prided itself on it's ability to create fleshed out, realistic characters, this is a disturbing turn of events.

No wonder Brent Knowles left Bioware..

To your no I say this...



These characters and their romance have not been cheapened. I've seen it myself. This is what makes this game greater then anything the ME team could produce. This is what makes this team stand out. They have the guts and balls to step forward and remember ALL their fans...and not just the little masculinity-challenged homophobic fanboy gamers.

These characters still have their own desires and their own agendas. They do not lose anything of themselves if coaxed into a relationship. There is no breaking of immersion. You do not have to initiate these romances, thus its up to the players choice. Like a side-quest. You don't have to do them all and can still play the game at its fullest potential. But if you want, they're still there. And the DA team works hard to make every aspect of the game great. They don't hide behind lame reasoning like 'Well, the Asari aren't technically female'. BS!!

Take that, my friend. Regardless of what you say, DA is greater then ME in my book. They are the gaming gods. 

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 04 mars 2011 - 02:22 .

[Sarrawei]

"Cheapens" the characters?

Newsflash, they're not people. They're vehicles for player entertainment. Adding options (romantic or otherwise) increases playability and allows the product to appeal to a wider demographic, thus improving saleability, thus improving gross profits. (Not necessarily net profit; that depends on the amount of investment which went into providing that option to the player.)

Whining because the ability to select an option doesn't fit ~your vision~ is frankly rather pathetic. It's an entire game about choices; if the development team adding choices you don't personally like breaks your immersion, I don't know how you even got this far. Variation in the player experience is not only a staple of RPGs, but one of the most defining features of the genre.

Modifié par Sarrawei, 04 mars 2011 - 02:27 .

[Sqwoot]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Shayde. A lot of people must've missed the whole notion of "something optional in the game is optional." Having Bi LIs doesn't do anything other than give a portion of the audience something to appreciate. (Not get rocks off on. Some of us actually like the story concept of the LIs.) I can't wait for DA2, even more now that this is revealed. The demo was fantastic, and so far my only complaint from what I've seen is that Shale isn't in the party again. Which is understandable, if only for "HAWKE?! IT IS A BIRD! I SHALL CRUSH IT!"

[RVonE]

Sarrawei wrote...

"Cheapens" the characters?

Newsflash, they're not people. They're vehicles for player entertainment. Adding options (romantic or otherwise) increases playability and allows the product to appeal to a wider demographic, thus improving saleability, thus improving gross profits. (Not necessarily net profit; that depends on the amount of investment which went into providing that option to the player.)

Whining because the ability to select an option doesn't fit ~your vision~ is frankly rather pathetic. It's an entire game about choices; if the development team adding choices you don't personally like breaks your immersion, I don't know how you even got this far. Variation in the player experience is not only a staple of RPGs, but one of the most defining features of the genre.

Vehicles for player entertainment... I like that.

[OrbitalWings]

It's the age old argument, but don't like it - don't look at it. No one's forcing you to use all the romance options. And how is it cheapened? Surely if a romance is going to be seen by more people due to being open to both genders, that's a reason to put even more effort into making them great.

[Carfax]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

These characters and their romance have not been cheapened. I've seen it myself. This is what makes this game greater then anything the ME team could produce. This is what makes this team stand out. They have the guts and balls to step forward and remember ALL their fans...and not just the little masculinity-challenged homophobic fanboy gamers.

How have the characters and romances not been cheapened?  Instead of giving the characters a predefined sexuality, their sexuality is now completely subjective to the whims of the PC..

That looks pretty cheap to me.  Character development and integrity takes a backseat to the fulfillment of the PCs wants and desires.   It's silly of you to even argue over something as obvious as this..

And those little masculinity-challenged homophobic fanboy gamers are exactly the type of customers that Bioware is lusting over, because they know those are the type of people that make big sale numbers possible.

The days of the classic RPG are over.  Even Bioware is making RPGs where "when you hit a button, something cool happens."

[KnightOfTwo]

RVonE wrote...

Sarrawei wrote...

"Cheapens" the characters?

Newsflash, they're not people. They're vehicles for player entertainment. Adding options (romantic or otherwise) increases playability and allows the product to appeal to a wider demographic, thus improving saleability, thus improving gross profits. (Not necessarily net profit; that depends on the amount of investment which went into providing that option to the player.)

Whining because the ability to select an option doesn't fit ~your vision~ is frankly rather pathetic. It's an entire game about choices; if the development team adding choices you don't personally like breaks your immersion, I don't know how you even got this far. Variation in the player experience is not only a staple of RPGs, but one of the most defining features of the genre.

Vehicles for player entertainment... I like that.

Am I the only one who pictured Anders saying "vroom vroom" in a seductive voice when I noticed that line?

[Blue_Shayde]

Sqwoot wrote...

Couldn't have said it better myself, Shayde. A lot of people must've missed the whole notion of "something optional in the game is optional." Having Bi LIs doesn't do anything other than give a portion of the audience something to appreciate. (Not get rocks off on. Some of us actually like the story concept of the LIs.) I can't wait for DA2, even more now that this is revealed. The demo was fantastic, and so far my only complaint from what I've seen is that Shale isn't in the party again. Which is understandable, if only for "HAWKE?! IT IS A BIRD! I SHALL CRUSH IT!"

............SHALE!!!  I will miss her and the crushing of chickens. 


Carfax, you are officially on ignore. Go wallow in your little ME safe corner and continue to fear the change. Society is changing and people are more open-minded. If that also breaks your real-life immersion, I'm sure there's a safe room you can lock yourself up in and deny everything. :innocent:

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 04 mars 2011 - 02:34 .

[harktag]

Carfax wrote...

Wow, if this is true then it's absolutely disgusting.. Bioware really scraped the bottom of the barrel with this one; or perhaps I should be more specific by stating the DA2 team did. The Mass Effect team would never entertain such a ridiculous notion as this.

Not only does it break immersion completely by having all perspective LIs be bisexual (LGBT comprise about 3 or 4% of the population), but it cheapens all the romances, and the characters themselves by making them conform to the expectations and the desires of the PC.

The LIs exist only so that the PC can get his/her rocks off. They have no desires outside of what the PC enforces on them.

For a developer that has always prided itself on it's ability to create fleshed out, realistic characters, this is a disturbing turn of events.

No wonder Brent left Bioware..

For me, though, if I can suspend disbelief enough to accept that I can shoot fireballs and lightning bolts at my will, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to believe that a good number of my travelling party just happens to be bisexual.

Many people play video games because it's an escape from the real world. They can pretend they are in a world unlike their own, and enjoy the experience of that made-up world - things that you can't experience in real life. As someone who must deal with the fact that only 10% of the population swings in the same direction as myself, it's REALLY refreshing to finally be able to play a game where I can pretend that there are far more people in this world like me.

I don't understand why you think it cheapens the romance. The game is designed around the PC, and as a form of entertainment, should cater as much as possible to the type of experiences that the player wishes to have. That's what ultimately draws us to purchase and play a game, does it not? And since these same gender romances are completely optional, more people can have the romance experience that they want. What's wrong with that?

Modifié par harktag, 04 mars 2011 - 02:37 .

[Chris Readman]

I'd also like to add to the claim that LGBT is only 3-4% of the population. Firstly, the accuracy of this number is questionable and debatable. But more importantly, the truth is the type of society one grows up in can actually play a hand in one's sexuality. If it is an accepted custom to be gay in the world of Dragon Age, the numbers can simply sky-rocket. There are cultures in which people of "alternative" sexuality are pretty much the norm, such as the Bugis in South Sulawesi. It may not "make" people gay persay, but a more accepting society will allow the "coming out" of more people. They say that sexuality isn't black and white after all, it's more of a spectrum.

Sure it isn't realistic that four of the people in the party are bisexual, it is a pretty big coincidence. It annoys me slightly as well. But then again, it is offset by the sheer amount of options Bioware has given us.

Modifié par Chris Readman, 04 mars 2011 - 02:34 .

[Ryzaki]

KnightOfTwo wrote...

RVonE wrote...

Sarrawei wrote...

"Cheapens" the characters?

Newsflash, they're not people. They're vehicles for player entertainment. Adding options (romantic or otherwise) increases playability and allows the product to appeal to a wider demographic, thus improving saleability, thus improving gross profits. (Not necessarily net profit; that depends on the amount of investment which went into providing that option to the player.)

Whining because the ability to select an option doesn't fit ~your vision~ is frankly rather pathetic. It's an entire game about choices; if the development team adding choices you don't personally like breaks your immersion, I don't know how you even got this far. Variation in the player experience is not only a staple of RPGs, but one of the most defining features of the genre.

Vehicles for player entertainment... I like that.

Am I the only one who pictured Anders saying "vroom vroom" in a seductive voice when I noticed that line?

Not anymore you aren't. 

[Blue_Shayde]

if the straights get two options, why is it so hard to allow the LGBT to finally get options? so many narrow-minded jerks. =( But its inevitable they'd come to us to complain. We finally have won a little in something.

[Taleroth]

KnightOfTwo wrote...

Am I the only one who pictured Anders saying "vroom vroom" in a seductive voice when I noticed that line?

That was my response, only instead of Anders I said it.

[catabuca]

KnightOfTwo wrote...

RVonE wrote...

Vehicles for player entertainment... I like that.

Am I the only one who pictured Anders saying "vroom vroom" in a seductive voice when I noticed that line?

He can ride in me anytime ...

What? :innocent:

[Carfax]

Whining because the ability to select an option doesn't fit ~your vision~ is frankly rather pathetic. It's an entire game about choices; if the development team adding choices you don't personally like breaks your immersion, I don't know how you even got this far. Variation in the player experience is not only a staple of RPGs, but one of the most defining features of the genre.

Your arguement would be more credible if gamers actually had a choice in this, but they don't.....at least not if they don't want their characters to have any sort of gay relationships..

If I want Anders to be straight and not bisexual, where is my choice?   

[Taleroth]

Carfax wrote...

If I want Anders to be straight and not bisexual, where is my choice?   

I thought you were the one arguing that they should have pre-defined sexuality.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Carfax wrote...

Your arguement would be more credible if gamers actually had a choice in this, but they don't.....at least not if they don't want their characters to have any sort of gay relationships..

If I want Anders to be straight and not bisexual, where is my choice?   

... He still likes women too...?

Anders isn't your character.

[Cat Fancy]

*wanders in after sleeping*

They're all bi?![smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

To add something, I guess, all bi-lis really isn't that much more implausible than having an equal number of young, attractive heterosexual party members AND all classes represented by interesting people with somewhat equally developed characters arc. Deal with it! 

[IndelibleJester]

Carfax wrote...

Wow, if this is true then it's absolutely disgusting.. Bioware really scraped the bottom of the barrel with this one; or perhaps I should be more specific by stating the DA2 team did. The Mass Effect team would never entertain such a ridiculous notion as this.

Not only does it break immersion completely by having all perspective LIs be bisexual (LGBT comprise about 3 or 4% of the population), but it cheapens all the romances, and the characters themselves by making them conform to the expectations and the desires of the PC.

The LIs exist only so that the PC can get his/her rocks off. They have no desires outside of what the PC enforces on them.

For a developer that has always prided itself on it's ability to create fleshed out, realistic characters, this is a disturbing turn of events.

No wonder Brent left Bioware..

I agree that the unification is annoying, however, the fact that we have so few companions in the first place is a downfall in it's own right, and having four bi LI isn't a big deal had they had MORE than four. However, that said, I really don't care that they have taken a different path, this time. I enjoy having options in whatever sexuality - the story shapes around Hawke, after all, not Ander's/Merrill's/Isabela's/Fenris' previous or current sex life. I'm proud of them for doing something different - from others, and from their previous installments.

"(United States) An extensive study on sexuality in general was conducted in the United States.A significant portion of the study was geared towards homosexuality. The results found that 8.6% of women and 10.1% of men had at one point in their life experienced some form of homosexuality. Of these, 87% of women and 76% of men reported current same-sex attractions, 41% of women and 52% of men had sex with someone of the same gender, and 16% of women and 27% of men identified as LGBT." *1

*1 <link>

Modifié par IndelibleJester, 04 mars 2011 - 02:49 .

[Carfax]

harktag wrote...

Many people play video games because it's an escape from the real world. They can pretend they are in a world unlike their own, and enjoy the experience of that made-up world - things that you can't experience in real life. As someone who must deal with the fact that only 10% of the population swings in the same direction as myself, it's REALLY refreshing to finally be able to play a game where I can pretend that there are far more people in this world like me.

Well you just said it yourself, that Dragon Age 2 is apparently catering to gay people now.  And gays are not 10% of the population.  That figure was based on Alfred Kinsey's erroneous results, which used biased populations such as prison inmates, prostitutes etc..

I don't understand why you think it cheapens the romance. The game is designed around the PC, and as a form of entertainment, should cater as much as possible to the type of experiences that the player wishes to have. That's what ultimately draws us to purchase and play a game, does it not? And since these same gender romances are completely optional, more people can have the romance experience that they want. What's wrong with that?

As I mentioned before, if you as a gay man can now have your cake and eat it too, then why can't I as a straight man have mine as well? 

If you want Anders and Fenris to be gay/bisexual in your game, thats fine.  I want them to be straight in my game however, yet no such option exists.

Unless the romances are contextually driven?

[LiquidGrape]

Carfax wrote...

If I want Anders to be straight and not bisexual, where is my choice?   

If you want to pursue a hetero relationship with Anders, you're obviously free to do so.
Simply adding an option doesn't remove another one.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 04 mars 2011 - 02:50 .

[harktag]

Carfax wrote...

Whining because the ability to select an option doesn't fit ~your vision~ is frankly rather pathetic. It's an entire game about choices; if the development team adding choices you don't personally like breaks your immersion, I don't know how you even got this far. Variation in the player experience is not only a staple of RPGs, but one of the most defining features of the genre.

Your arguement would be more credible if gamers actually had a choice in this, but they don't.....at least not if they don't want their characters to have any sort of gay relationships..

If I want Anders to be straight and not bisexual, where is my choice?   

Are you saying you would have preferred it if you could decide ahead of time the sexual orientations of the characters? Before you were complaining that it breaks immersion and makes things unrealistic, so if you think this would be more realistic, when did you "choose" your own sexuality?

[Erani]

I'm still partying! All-bi Yey
MHawke and Fenris

Edit: 3-4% LGBT?

Modifié par Erani, 04 mars 2011 - 02:52 .