8194 réponses à ce sujet

[Carfax]

Saibh wrote...

Because they want the same content as everyone else, because they pay exactly as much money as everyone else? It's not whining, it's wanting more options.

Like I said, I don't blame them for whining.  But even the most rainbow hearted individual would get a little sick and tired of the constant cycle of same sex romance related threads on these forums..

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Saibh: Where is it said admitting to bisexuality in Thedas was discouraged? Did Gaider mention something?

They said it's a "huh that's weird" thing when fereldans hear about it.

[catabuca]

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

 I suppose it would be terribly wrong to call Fenris/Hawke Fawke. 

Terribly appropriate, I think.

I quite like thinking about Fenders, myself. But that's just me.

[SurelyForth]

My concern with the all-bi LIs has always been that it will reduce the quality of romances across the board. If they do it right, which is make the difference more than a pronoun swap and a slightly different cutscene, that's quite a bit of effort for something only a fraction of the audience would see (which has been a driving sentiment in BW's development of DA2). I would much rather have deeper, distinctive romances with fewer choices than having all romances watered down to allow for more choices.

That's not to say that this will happen. Maybe they went all out with relationships in DA2. But it is a concern I have and a valid one to have based on some reviews and dev comments about the cost (in money and time) when it comes to romantic content.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 04 mars 2011 - 05:07 .

[Ryzaki]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Saibh: Where is it said admitting to bisexuality in Thedas was discouraged? Did Gaider mention something?

They said it's a "huh that's weird" thing when fereldans hear about it.

That's not discouraging it though. Just not being used to it. 
Judging from the lack of discrimination and pitchforks they don't care enough to do anything. 

Though I would've been cool with 2 romances for everyone. I bi female and one bi male. That way we could've gotten the most content and everyone would've had the same amount of choice. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 mars 2011 - 05:06 .

[Neezoy]

Hah. "Fenders". Lol.

[Saibh]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sheer unlikliness. Saibh. How likely is it for you to recruit a pirate queen, a dalish bloodmage elf whose chipper and innocent, a abomination like Anders who befriended the spirti first, a lyrium infused slave elf?

You recruit these people, and they stick with you, because of their unique capabilities. There are many powerful people in the world. Irving, Zathrian, Caladrious, Uldred, Witherfang, Swiftrunner, Caridin, Flemeth, the Grand Oak, Avernus, and on and on...

For every fantastic person that you meet in DAO, there are three more that are just as--if not more--fantastic that you don't recruit. The people you have with you must be unique and special, because that's why you have them stick with you. Because they're useful.

And DAO already sacrificed individulaity and believability for virtual nookie. I could get Morrigan to sleep with me despite being a pratical saint, I could get Alistair to marry me while being a complete monster as long as I was nice to him and gave him gifts, I could do the same with Leliana and Zevran. (Heck I could be a human supremist and still get Zevran to fall in love). Their individuality is nearly always sacrificed so the PC can get something though I fail to see how all being bisexual means their invidiuality was somehow lessened.

I wasn't too fond of bribing them, actually. I thought that was unrealistic too. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

YAY WE'RE FINALLY GETTING MATURE OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS.

[Fidget6]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

I don't think people choose sexuality.

Agreed. But I do think a lot of people restrain their sexuality for the sake of not being labeled by society. I also believe in the Kinsey scale.

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

And in DA1 we only met 2 Openly Bi sexual characters out of a cast of 100's it seemed to me most people in Origns were straight.

There were more than two. There were Leliana, Zevran,  the human noble origin had a bi guy and girl you could sleep with, plus Isabella, plus Wade and Herren, and Oghren's ex-wife and her lover. And I think there might have been more (not even counting the random brothel people you can sleep with) Most characters didn't mention their sexuality one way or the other because it was irrelevant. But we really don't know how common homosexuality/bisexuality is in the Dragon Age universe.

[ipgd]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

(Anyone else also find it odd we haven't met any openly Homosexuals in the all accecpting Da world?)

I don't think Wade and Herren's closet even has a door to shut.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Ryzaki wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Saibh: Where is it said admitting to bisexuality in Thedas was discouraged? Did Gaider mention something?

They said it's a "huh that's weird" thing when fereldans hear about it.

That's not discouraging it though. Just not being used to it. 
Judging from the lack of discrimination and pitchforks they don't care enough to do anything. 

Though I would've been cool with 2 romances for everyone. I bi female and one bi male. That way we could've gotten the most content and everyone would've had the same amount of choice. 

woot
But actually Bi hawkes would get like twice as many Li than straight or gay Hawkes if we made 2 for each orientation.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Fidget6 wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

I don't think people choose sexuality.

Agreed. But I do think a lot of people restrain their sexuality for the sake of not being labeled by society. I also believe in the Kinsey scale.

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

And in DA1 we only met 2 Openly Bi sexual characters out of a cast of 100's it seemed to me most people in Origns were straight.

There were more than two. There were Leliana, Zevran,  the human noble origin had a bi guy and girl you could sleep with, plus Isabella, plus Wade and Herren, and Oghren's ex-wife and her lover. And I think there might have been more (not even counting the random brothel people you can sleep with) Most characters didn't mention their sexuality one way or the other because it was irrelevant. But we really don't know how common homosexuality/bisexuality is in the Dragon Age universe.

A dev or codex entry said it was 1/10 for gays

I imagine it would be even less for bisexuals

[Ryzaki]

Saibh wrote...
You recruit these people, and they stick with you, because of their unique capabilities. There are many powerful people in the world. Irving, Zathrian, Caladrious, Uldred, Witherfang, Swiftrunner, Caridin, Flemeth, the Grand Oak, Avernus, and on and on...

For every fantastic person that you meet in DAO, there are three more that are just as--if not more--fantastic that you don't recruit. The people you have with you must be unique and special, because that's why you have them stick with you. Because they're useful.

Yes exactly. But the fact that you find them period, and that they're willing to stick with you and fall in love with you to begin with is already unlikely. And what's to stop 4 of them from being bisexual?  4 people that you meet out of the dozens? 

Edit: And none of those people who listed join the PC on his/her quest. They give him/her directions/advice/ask for aid before leaving. Everyone who the PC stays in contact with for more than a few quests ends up being morphed by the PC. 

And yeah the people you have with you do not have to be as unique and special as the NPCs are in DA2 to be useful. You could just as easily have skilled combatants without any special powers and they could still be useful to Hawke's cause. Or Hawke can just ally himself with NPCs (and non-companions) that are special and unique. (And Hawke probably will). 

See while DAO's companions were unique it wasn't to such a degree as DA2's companions. Yeah Leliana and Zev were assassins (and bards) but those are common where they come from. There is nothing at all common about any of Da2's companions. 

Edit: By this I meant the LIs. 

I wasn't too fond of bribing them, actually. I thought that was unrealistic too. Two wrongs don't make a right.

True. I was just pointing out the fact that DAO already was unrealistic with how people bent over to conform to the PC. I felt Loghain's shifting from "ORLESIAN SPY!" to "I'll follow you." ridculous. But that's what the PC does. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 mars 2011 - 05:17 .

[Alauda]

<3<3<3  This news has made the day, no! my year ~ 

*shimmies* 

[HopHazzard]

catabuca wrote...

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

 I suppose it would be terribly wrong to call Fenris/Hawke Fawke. 

Terribly appropriate, I think.

I quite like thinking about Fenders, myself. But that's just me.

Portmanteau couple names are always inappropriate.

[catabuca]

SurelyForth wrote...

My concern with the all-bi LIs has always been that it will reduce the quality of romances across the board. If they do it right, which is make the difference more than a pronoun swap and a slightly different cutscene, that's quite a bit of effort for something only a fraction of the audience would see (which has been a driving sentiment in BW's development of DA2). I would much rather have deeper, distinctive romances with fewer choices than having all romances watered down to allow for more choices.

That's not to say that this will happen. Maybe they went all out with relationships in DA2. But it is a concern I have and a valid one to have based on some reviews and dev comments about the cost (in money and time) when it comes to romantic content.

Companion relationships in general seem to be a major focus of this game. That, coupled with the new rivalry/friendship dynamic, suggests that in fact they have spent a lot of time and energy in making sure those relationships are well-realised, whether they are romantic, familial, or platonic.

If BW believed they wouldn't be able to have all bi LIs without sacrificing the content of all romances, then I am sure they wouldn't have done it.

[jlb524]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
2 straight
2 Bi
2 gay
1 per gender for each Orientation of course.

I still would prefer everyone to be bisexual as that's less work for them and more options for us.  I don't see the issue, personally.  I'm a gay lady but am perfectly fine with romancing bisexual female companions.  I don't understand...am I supposed to prefer one female companion over the other simply b/c she's fem only while the other is bisexual?

Now, if they want to stick with limiting options to some only being straight, then yeah...I want a gay LI too....it's only fair...if i'm going to be shut off from a potential female romance b/c of gender than the menfolk should be too

[Mack Besmirch]

Oh, i think we should give Bioware more credit, Saibh. 

In Origins, Leliana was bi but seemed to be more default-hetero; a female Warden had to choose dialogue progressions more selectively to get Leliana to enter into a romance. Similarly, Zevran seems to be an equal-opportunity playboy, but it is only a small part of his sexual identity: he is more than anything a product of his fortune at a young age, being born an elf, an Antivan and of course his training as a Crow.

I'd wager that the all-bi decision in DA2 has less to do with general sexuality and more to do with the fact that we gamers play as Hawke, a fixed persona, but a persona we each get to shape in our own way.  It's about us, about our Hawkes.  We become (co)authors of his or her story, so who's to say one person's female Hawke is into Isabela and another player's Male Hawke is also into Isabela -- not to mention any single gamer's multiple play-throughs of the game as different Hawkes. 

My theory is that each companion has been programmed to have a valid explanation and unique point of view about whichever Hawke is romancing them.  It's not so much that, say, Merrill is a bi Dalish elf in all stories, but that the developers have made it so that she is available to every version of Hawke, you know?

Or maybe I'm giving Bioware too MUCH credit!

Funny FYI: When playing a female and romancing Leliana, I found that one line about sharing a love of shoes with her a positive bonding moment towards a lesbian romance.  But when I tried the same dialogue options as a male Warden, she defaulted to friend.  We were like Will and Grace, apparently.

[catabuca]

Neezoy wrote...

Hah. "Fenders". Lol.

I've been shipping Fenders for some time now. Either just together, or also with Hawke.

Fenders: You know it makes sense.

[Shandyr]

SurelyForth wrote...

My concern with the all-bi LIs has always been that it will reduce the quality of romances across the board. If they do it right, which is make the difference more than a pronoun swap and a slightly different cutscene, that's quite a bit of effort for something only a fraction of the audience would see (which has been a driving sentiment in BW's development of DA2). I would much rather have deeper, distinctive romances with fewer choices than having all romances watered down to allow for more choices.

That's not to say that this will happen. Maybe they went all out with relationships in DA2. But it is a concern I have and a valid one to have based on some reviews and dev comments about the cost (in money and time) when it comes to romantic content.

This. *subscribes*

Though I find it funny, all these discussions in all these (flame)threads, while the game still is not out.

On another note: For me personally  an RPG is just a frame, a rough setting given to my fantasy. And there are so many things I add to it in my fantasy. I mean if I'd take everything for real in an rpg then why the heck dont I ever see characters going on toilet?

That's just an example to point out that I have certain problems in understand why OPTIONAL bi chars are a problem (except for the quoted concern above). You play Hawke. You  get a party. Nobody is ever starting something with you. It's up to you to start a romance. And now some guys seem to have a problem with this because - IN THEORY - every LI would accept a romance of same gender.

But you won't play this way anyway will you? You won't play a Hawke that romances Isabela, drops her off, then romances Fenris, drops him off, then romances Anders, drops him off a.s.o.
So why do you bother at all?

Just don't start a romance you don't like and imagine the others weren't bisexual. That's what an RPG is about - imagination. (You have to imagine characters go to the toilet...)

[LukaCrosszeria]

catabuca wrote...

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

 I suppose it would be terribly wrong to call Fenris/Hawke Fawke. 

Terribly appropriate, I think.

I quite like thinking about Fenders, myself. But that's just me.

That's the one I saw, now I remember. Of course yours doesn't sound lewd. >< I made a new banner, cata! I was hesitant whether I should put Fawke on it 

[Erani]

ipgd wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

(Anyone else also find it odd we haven't met any openly Homosexuals in the all accecpting Da world?)

I don't think Wade and Herren's closet even has a door to shut.

Yeah that closet is more like an open-door balcony.

[LukaCrosszeria]

Erani wrote...

ipgd wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

(Anyone else also find it odd we haven't met any openly Homosexuals in the all accecpting Da world?)

I don't think Wade and Herren's closet even has a door to shut.

Yeah that closet is more like an open-door balcony.

LMAO. You don't want to look at that balcony tho. Although I adore Wade. He's friggin' hilarioius. What did he call Vigi'ls Keep again? Turnip Keep?

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

jlb524 wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
2 straight
2 Bi
2 gay
1 per gender for each Orientation of course.

1.I still would prefer everyone to be bisexual as that's less work for them and more options for us.  I don't see the issue, personally.  I'm a gay lady but am perfectly fine with romancing bisexual female companions.  I don't understand...2.am I supposed to prefer one female companion over the other simply b/c she's fem only while the other is bisexual?

Now, if they want to stick with limiting options to some only being straight, then yeah...I want a gay LI too....it's only fair...if i'm going to be shut off from a potential female romance b/c of gender than the menfolk should be too

1.I prefer them to work harder for my game to be better, I like contrast in the genders. If everyone is Bi the main factor in choosing your gender(romance) is taken out. Making the choice more of a pleasntry than a gameplay mechanic/story factor.
2.This is subjective, I find it much easier to have a Bromance with someone who isn't attracted to me. But others can differ i'm sure.

I just think the jack of all orientations option is the best option to please most people while keeping it fair.

[kthim]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

And in DA1 we only met 2 Openly Bi sexual characters out of a cast of 100's it seemed to me most people in Origns were straight.

Most were straight yes, but we didn't just meet 2 that were bisexuals. There's Zevran, Leliana, Dairren, Iona and Isabela.

Not to mention Wade and Herren that are a couple.

During some dialogues it is shown that Zevran and Taliesen are more than just friends as well. Or at least were.




Regarding the whole thing about people not being accepting of the fact that people are gay or bisexual in ferelden, when you get Dairren to spend time in your bed as a male warder, or iona as a female one, your brother doesn't even batter an eyelid, he just tells you that your bedmate better treat you right or they'll have to deal with him.

This could of course show that nobility is treated differently than the regular populace.

Modifié par kthim, 04 mars 2011 - 05:28 .