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[obnoxiousgas]

Eudaemonium wrote...

I would love Varric as a LI, though since I play fem!Hawkes mostly I am not terribly bothered which one he is. I just tend to think that if he is a LI it would be likely that he'd be the bi one due to his central role in the story, and thus either Hawke could have (had) that kind of relationship with him.

I dunno, in Origins the LIs that were most central to the story (Alistair and Morrigan) were the straight options, while the bi options were distinctly more optional and had a much smaller impact on the plot. On the other hand, David Gaider has said that they're trying to give all of the characters a 'hook' to the main plot, so maybe the difference in terms of story-based importance is much smaller in DA2 - which is quite nice, and everyone's fair game.

[scootermcgaffin]

Collider wrote...

You feel Zev was a bit of a copout, scooter?

Zevran was one of my favorite characters in the game, actually, and my favorite romance (as either sex). I just dislike how he kept justifying it and made sure we knew that, actually, he preferred women, etc.

Modifié par scootermcgaffin, 08 février 2011 - 03:25 .

[Russalka]

I do not recall any explicit statements about them being bisexual due to their lifestyle or background.

[Collider]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Collider wrote...

You feel Zev was a bit of a copout, scooter?

Zevran was one of my favorite characters in the game, actually, and my favorite romance (as either sex). I just dislike how he kept justifying it and made sure we knew that, actually, he preferred women, etc.

So far all of the M/M candidates have displayed something of a preference for women.
Kaidan had been a candidate. But he spoke of reading novels about meeting beautiful women in space, and he had that story about his crush on this girl.
Thane had his wife, and had a child with her.
Sky - same as Thane.
Zevran says that he prefers women as you said.

I hope whoever is the bi option isn't "I prefer women, but you'll do" over again.

[Leoroc]

Oh how I wish Thane had been an m/m option. I settled for Jack cuz she had a guy's name and a tomboyish appearance =p



Would be best if fenris was gay and sebastian bi. I'd really like to see a _gay_ companion. Obsidian had two in FONV and no one complained.

[Collider]

Different ball game with DA2. A lot of work goes into the romances. The reasoning of the devs is that there's not a significant enough market for exclusively gay companions with full fledged romances.

[Jimmy Fury]

David Gaider wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...
Like it or not nobody has actually confirmed male-male romances. Only that "all genders and orientations" will be catered too.

Wow, that's some paranoia right there. Consider male-male romance confirmed, then.

You have no idea... [adjusts tinfoil hat]
But hey, like Makenszieshepard said, at least I'm aware that it's paranoia and not anything sane.
But WOOHOO! confirmation!

Collider wrote...

Leoroc, people would be understandably
upset if the only gay option is in DLC.

But like Saibh and Gaider said, someone on the forums will be mad no matter what.
People spent months complaining that DA2 wasn't going to be enough like Origins and now they're complaining that it'll be too similar.
I would defend DLC romancables if they were ever an option.  It would free up the devs with a seperate budget, more flexible timeline for development, and no need to worry about taking away from core game resources.

[Collider]

There will be people complaining no matter what. But what about people who can't get DLC? Now they can't have a gay romance? And think of what gay DLC would look like. People would accuse Bioware of making it DLC only because they're afraid of putting gay content in the main game. They'd get even more "Bioware is homophobic" accusations.

[Leoroc]

Collider wrote...

Different ball game with DA2. A lot of work goes into the romances. The reasoning of the devs is that there's not a significant enough market for exclusively gay companions with full fledged romances.

This is a creative industry, sometimes art takes precedent over the market.

[Collider]

Leoroc wrote...

Collider wrote...

Different ball game with DA2. A lot of work goes into the romances. The reasoning of the devs is that there's not a significant enough market for exclusively gay companions with full fledged romances.

This is a creative industry, sometimes art takes precedent over the market.

I'm not arguing against an exclusively gay companion. I would like to see one in the future. However, that is the reasoning I have seen the devs use, and it is important to consider the market.

[RosaAquafire]

Collider wrote...

There will be people complaining no matter what. But what about people who can't get DLC? Now they can't have a gay romance? And think of what gay DLC would look like. People would accuse Bioware of making it DLC only because they're afraid of putting gay content in the main game. They'd get even more "Bioware is homophobic" accusations.

But the point is that they're going to get that no matter WHAT they do. Anders? Too swishy and flirty. Fenris? But he's an elf! Sebastien? Omg, he's DLC! Varric? Are you saying that gays can only get a short fat guy??

They're damned no matter what they do, so I just hope they pick the character who's best suited to be bisexual with their background and personalities.

[scootermcgaffin]

Jimmy Fury wrote...
But like Saibh and Gaider said, someone on the forums will be mad no matter what.
People spent months complaining that DA2 wasn't going to be enough like Origins and now they're complaining that it'll be too similar.
I would defend DLC romancables if they were ever an option.  It would free up the devs with a seperate budget, more flexible timeline for development, and no need to worry about taking away from core game resources.

DLC romances for all: fine, wonderful, okay, good, all other kinds of positive adjectives.

M/F and F/F in base game, DLC for M/M: Not cool.

But again, I don't know why we're discussing it since it's highly unlikely that he's romancible.

[Collider]

M/F and F/F in base game, DLC for M/M: Not cool.

*nod*

And yes, Sebastian's unlikely. Probably Fenris.

[Eudaemonium]

obnoxiousgas wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

I would love Varric as a LI, though since I play fem!Hawkes mostly I am not terribly bothered which one he is. I just tend to think that if he is a LI it would be likely that he'd be the bi one due to his central role in the story, and thus either Hawke could have (had) that kind of relationship with him.

I dunno, in Origins the LIs that were most central to the story (Alistair and Morrigan) were the straight options, while the bi options were distinctly more optional and had a much smaller impact on the plot. On the other hand, David Gaider has said that they're trying to give all of the characters a 'hook' to the main plot, so maybe the difference in terms of story-based importance is much smaller in DA2 - which is quite nice, and everyone's fair game.

You have a point. However, it seems the poster-LI for DA2 has been Isabela, who if DAO is anything to go by, is probably the bi option. So unless she's mysteriously become straight, or they just wanted a catch-all poster-Li for either Hawke , the Origins pattern might not hold here. And of course, like you said, there is the 'every character has a plot hook' aspect. I'm really looking forward to that!

[Fidget6]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Collider wrote...

You feel Zev was a bit of a copout, scooter?

Zevran was one of my favorite characters in the game, actually, and my favorite romance (as either sex). I just dislike how he kept justifying it and made sure we knew that, actually, he preferred women, etc.

I actually liked that about him. Most bisexuals have a preferred sex, so to me it felt that they took some consideration into his character and sexuality, rather than just tacking on a bisexual option last minute.

[Blue_Shayde]

i like how the biggest reasoning against Fenris is again, his race.

But anyway, Gaider said someone will complain the bi LI is ugly and not appropriate as a bi LI. So my question...which of the guys we know about might fit this description?? Honestly, all four guys are attractive enough on their own terms, and I can't see how any would fail as an appropriate bi LI. So...who would fit that description? If I had to look hard at it...

Varric might only on the basis of dwarf hate out there. Anders might, not on the basis of looks but that he was apparently a womanizer and thus wouldn't in some way fit the bill. Sebastien (other then my personal dislike of the dracula face), is dlc and yes...not everyone can get dlc...which might make him inappropriate for the bi LI. And Fenris, heaven forbid, had the unfortunate luck of being born elf...thus dooming himself no matter what personality and story he might have, because another gay elf would be inappropriate. (<- yes, there is sarcasm xD)

That's my guess...but then, that once again leaves me with no clue as to who it could be. xD

OMG. what if its Isabela? (she's actually....a shemale! )

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 08 février 2011 - 05:24 .

[Eudaemonium]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

Varric might only on the basis of dwarf hate out there. Anders might, not on the basis of looks but that he was apparently a womanizer and thus wouldn't in some way fit the bill. Sebastien (other then my personal dislike of the dracula face), is dlc and yes...not everyone can get dlc...which might make him inappropriate for the bi LI. And Fenris, heaven forbid, had the unfortunate luck of being born elf...thus dooming himself no matter what personality and story he might have, because another gay elf would be inappropriate.

Heh, I know I've used that line of reasoning, so guilty! I think it mainly boils down to elves being perceived as effeminate. That said, Fenris would actually make a different sort of M/M romance due to his apparently stoic disposition - very different to Zevran. Varric, however, fits the 'charming rogue' stereotype and would be pretty cliche as the M/M option were it not for the fact he was a dwarf. yet again, race plays a part in expectations and judgements.

[Fidget6]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

i like how the biggest reasoning against Fenris is again, his race.

But anyway, Gaider said someone will complain the bi LI is ugly and not appropriate as a bi LI. So my question...which of the guys we know about might fit this description??

I just figure he meant no matter who they chose to make the bi option people are still bound to b*tch about it, which is true.

[obnoxiousgas]

Eudaemonium wrote...

obnoxiousgas wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

I would love Varric as a LI, though since I play fem!Hawkes mostly I am not terribly bothered which one he is. I just tend to think that if he is a LI it would be likely that he'd be the bi one due to his central role in the story, and thus either Hawke could have (had) that kind of relationship with him.

I dunno, in Origins the LIs that were most central to the story (Alistair and Morrigan) were the straight options, while the bi options were distinctly more optional and had a much smaller impact on the plot. On the other hand, David Gaider has said that they're trying to give all of the characters a 'hook' to the main plot, so maybe the difference in terms of story-based importance is much smaller in DA2 - which is quite nice, and everyone's fair game.

You have a point. However, it seems the poster-LI for DA2 has been Isabela, who if DAO is anything to go by, is probably the bi option. So unless she's mysteriously become straight, or they just wanted a catch-all poster-Li for either Hawke , the Origins pattern might not hold here. And of course, like you said, there is the 'every character has a plot hook' aspect. I'm really looking forward to that!

Yes, that actually made me extremely happy. No idea if Isabela's going to be any more 'relevant' than the other characters, but it's great that at least one of the (probable) bi options is getting some exposure.

But, uh, this is the M/M thread, so... I'd quite like it if Anders were the bi option? I'll admit to being shamefully biased there though, and I'm sure I'll like whoever it is. Also I am a special and unique snowflake who apparently in the minority that preferred Zevran to Alistair.

[Eudaemonium]

I tended to romance Alistair, though I actually liked Zevran more (and believe he has the most in-depth and developed romance-arc of any of the characters). My least romanced-character is actually Leliana, who I romanced once, followed by Morrigan, who I romanced twice.

I am *so* not really a heterosexual male =P.

[Jimmy Fury]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

i like how the biggest reasoning against Fenris is again, his race.

But anyway, Gaider said someone will complain the bi LI is ugly and not appropriate as a bi LI. So my question...which of the guys we know about might fit this description?? Honestly, all four guys are attractive enough on their own terms, and I can't see how any would fail as an appropriate bi LI. So...who would fit that description? If I had to look hard at it...

Varric might only on the basis of dwarf hate out there. Anders might, not on the basis of looks but that he was apparently a womanizer and thus wouldn't in some way fit the bill. Sebastien (other then my personal dislike of the dracula face), is dlc and yes...not everyone can get dlc...which might make him inappropriate for the bi LI. And Fenris, heaven forbid, had the unfortunate luck of being born elf...thus dooming himself no matter what personality and story he might have, because another gay elf would be inappropriate. (<- yes, there is sarcasm xD)

That's my guess...but then, that once again leaves me with no clue as to who it could be. xD

OMG. what if its Isabela? (she's actually....a shemale! )

I don't think Gaider was being that literal in his prediction.
Someone will make those complaints no matter who it is simply out of spite that their prefered character wasn't the one.
Although I still maintain that not wanting Fenris simply because he's an elf is a perfectly valid stance.

[MColes]

David Gaider wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...
Can you confirm if it's someone attractive and not varric? lol

I'm certain that, whoever it is, there will be at least twenty people who will immediately fly to the internet to tell us how ugly and/or inappropriate he is as a m/m romance.

[ScotGaymer]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

i like how the biggest reasoning against Fenris is again, his race.

But anyway, Gaider said someone will complain the bi LI is ugly and not appropriate as a bi LI. So my question...which of the guys we know about might fit this description?? Honestly, all four guys are attractive enough on their own terms, and I can't see how any would fail as an appropriate bi LI. So...who would fit that description? If I had to look hard at it...

Varric might only on the basis of dwarf hate out there. Anders might, not on the basis of looks but that he was apparently a womanizer and thus wouldn't in some way fit the bill. Sebastien (other then my personal dislike of the dracula face), is dlc and yes...not everyone can get dlc...which might make him inappropriate for the bi LI. And Fenris, heaven forbid, had the unfortunate luck of being born elf...thus dooming himself no matter what personality and story he might have, because another gay elf would be inappropriate. (<- yes, there is sarcasm xD)

That's my guess...but then, that once again leaves me with no clue as to who it could be. xD

OMG. what if its Isabela? (she's actually....a shemale! )

It isnt that he is an Elf.

Its that the Flamboyant "sexy" Gay/Bisexual Elf is in danger of becoming a trope almost as cliche as the Gay/Bi Rogue trope. It pops up in games now and again (when they actually include m/m its USUALLY with the gay or bisexual flamboyant elf); and it pops up in various other forms of media and literature all over the place many many times.

Sometimes it comes off like its okay to be "gay" or otherwise "penis loving" (or vagina loving for the girls) if the chracter isnt human because then it doesnt count. Just like Liara didnt count as a lesbian relationship because she was from a monogendered alien race and not human. Or if he/she is a ****ty rogue it doesnt count. And quite often both.

At least thats how it is for me.

We had our Gay Elf romance we had our Lesbian Rogue romance; now can we please have something different? Instead of the same thing again?

[Blue_Shayde]

Honestly, the whole elf = gay stereotype is something i never noticed till I joined this forums discussion. the only other gay elf I know of is Zander from Drawn Together. After that, elves have always been the stereotype graceful and beautiful race with either amazing magic or really great archery skills. but i've rarely seen gay ones outside of fanfiction. oh well...

I still want Fenris. xD And if I can't have him, I'll wait for a modder (cause I suck at programming xD). And if not...it'll be another Shep and Avelis for me. My Shep is single through all games, hoping one day Kaiden will warm up. xD And my mage from DAO went on to rebuild the Grey Wardens with Alistair and Zevran, leaving me to tell myself (thanks to the lack of detail in the ending's description), that Alistair would soon realize his deeper feelings for his 'best friend' and they'd end their days happily together. In this one, I'll probably stalk and befriend/rival Fenris and then tell myself they'll end up together some day. xD ( i really don't care which of the guys, in the end. the only one I'm fully against is Anders. Cause I really don't want another flirty, easy-going sex loving LI.)

And I hate to say...but if Isabela is the bi LI...they've already snagged another bi female rogue...again.

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 08 février 2011 - 06:02 .

[Saibh]

One elf doesn't make a pattern. I really do think we're tricking us into thinking it is. Like you said, it's the flamboyant elf that would be a problem. However, I feel the need to point out that Anders is going to be much more flamboyant than Fenris.



So, in all honesty, even though Zevran and Fenris' personalities are wildly different, would you still have a problem? Just because he is an elf, and Anders isn't? Despite Anders having more traits in common with Zevran?