8194 réponses à ce sujet

[RosaAquafire]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Its that the Flamboyant "sexy" Gay/Bisexual Elf is in danger of becoming a trope almost as cliche as the Gay/Bi Rogue trope.

But from what we know of Fenris, he is the opposite of flambouyant. He's stoic, serious, tough, and quite possibly have some anger management issues. Does being slender and having feathered hair seriously invalidate his actual personality? Really? Like, really?

[Blue_Shayde]

Saibh wrote...

One elf doesn't make a pattern. I really do think we're tricking us into thinking it is. Like you said, it's the flamboyant elf that would be a problem. However, I feel the need to point out that Anders is going to be much more flamboyant than Fenris.

So, in all honesty, even though Zevran and Fenris' personalities are wildly different, would you still have a problem? Just because he is an elf, and Anders isn't? Despite Anders having more traits in common with Zevran?

well said, my friend. 

[scootermcgaffin]

RosaAquafire wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Its that the Flamboyant "sexy" Gay/Bisexual Elf is in danger of becoming a trope almost as cliche as the Gay/Bi Rogue trope.

But from what we know of Fenris, he is the opposite of flambouyant. He's stoic, serious, tough, and quite possibly have some anger management issues. Does being slender and having feathered hair seriously invalidate his actual personality? Really? Like, really?

If you're not Farrah Fawcett and/or it's not 1976, then feathered hair invalidates all sorts of things. 

[ScotGaymer]

Saibh wrote...

One elf doesn't make a pattern. I really do think we're tricking us into thinking it is. Like you said, it's the flamboyant elf that would be a problem. However, I feel the need to point out that Anders is going to be much more flamboyant than Fenris.

So, in all honesty, even though Zevran and Fenris' personalities are wildly different, would you still have a problem? Just because he is an elf, and Anders isn't? Despite Anders having more traits in common with Zevran?

Ya know I am not even going to bother talking to you anymore because you consistently misread or dont read what I say.

Others seemed to understand what I say just fine - its just you who doesnt and makes responses based that lack of understanding.

Honestly.

I dont mind if you disagree. Just actually disagree with what I actually said instead of part of what I said or what I didnt say please.

As to the flambouyant elf thing; well Fenris seemed fairly flouncy to me in the trailers and what not. You guys are right about him seeming to have a more serious character which hopefully will mitigate the tropiness of doing the Gay Elf again.

I dont dislike Zevran as a character; nor do I dislike the GayElf as a trope. I just feel like we have already done it so lets do something a little bit different.

About Isabela; Yeh I mean I knew the moment she was announced that she was the f/f option. Given she was already established as Bisexual it waas a foregone conclusion. I was kinda sad about it because she seems to be a b*tcher fatter version of Leliana.

If you guys check the tropes website you will find a good few RPG related tropes that ALL originate from Bioware. Its kind of depressing that Bioware has a long and proud history of creating tropes. I just wanted this one time not to be subjected to a stereotypical "gay" or "lesbian" hobag trope of a character.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 08 février 2011 - 06:25 .

[Ryzaki]

???

There really is no gay bisexual elf trope. One example does not make a trope.

There's a bisexual rogue trope.

If you'd prefer someone other than Fenris that's fine but don't try to say its because he's cliched.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 06:28 .

[Saibh]

FitScotGaymer wrote...
If you guys check the tropes website you will find a good few RPG related tropes that ALL originate from Bioware. Its kind of depressing that Bioware has a long and proud history of creating tropes. I just wanted this one time not to be subjected to a stereotypical "gay" or "lesbian" hobag trope of a character.

You have done absolutely nothing to prove I misunderstood you.

You have an issue with the flamboyant-flirtatious archetype being used for the bi characters.

I pointed out that Fenris isn't like that.

I said since he isn't, do you have a problem with his race, and only his race, despite Anders fitting the 'hobag' archetype more? 

Because, for all that you say "It isn't that he's an elf", that is literally the only thing you are objecting to.

[upsettingshorts]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

As to the flambouyant elf thing; well Fenris seemed fairly flouncy to me in the trailers and what not. You guys are right about him seeming to have a more serious character which hopefully will mitigate the tropiness of doing the Gay Elf again.

I highly doubt anyone described as a more stoic character than Valen Shadowbreath is going to be anything close to "flouncy" or stereotypically "Gay Elf."

FitScotGaymer wrote...

fatter version of Leliana.

Oh no you didn't.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 février 2011 - 06:39 .

[ScotGaymer]

@Saibh - like I said I am not responding to what you said because you didnt actually reply to what I said. You replied to something I DIDNT say. So I didnt respond to you, I responded to others.

So I dont need to prove or disprove anything.

@Ryzaki.
Also you too dont appear to have actually read what i actually said. So I am afraid I cant really respond to your erroneous statement.

@Upsettingshorts.

Never said I couldnt be wrong now could I? lol.

Like I said hopefully IF he is the s/s interest then the fact that he is a more serious/tragic character will mitigate the tropiness of the gay elf thing. Fingers crossed.

As to Isabela - perhaps I should have said curvaceous. Her new model certain seems a lot more busty than she was before. Certainly compared to Leliana at any rate.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 08 février 2011 - 06:45 .

[Blue_Shayde]

lol. well...i think using race as a grounds is silly. aside from personal taste, race will hold less ground over story, personality, and how the romance is delivered. In the end, if its done right, something like pointy ears will be the least of one's worries in the romance. That would go for the dwarf lovers, to.



I only ask for something different. We've had the easy-going, flirty type. we've have the dutiful churchy type. and if you count other bioware games...we've got a million rogue types. So i personally don't want anders, seb, isabela, or varric. A stoic warrior is something new for me. Again, though, this is purely based on a very small amount of character info and nay-say that's been given. Its subject to change according to actual gameplay experience. xD

[ScotGaymer]

Thats precisely it.

I am not objecting to the fact that he is an elf; I am just saying its kinda already been done in DAO with Zevran (though he is a different sort of person) and that something a bit different would be nice.
Given the various examples of the gay or bi elf in various varying forms of fiction, media, and literature it is almost verging on a trope. And I dislike tropes. They are a bit like stereotypes. Fine when they are done comedically but potentially dangerous when done seriously.

I am objecting to the dangers of tropifying characters. And wishing for something a bit different. Whats wrong with that?

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 08 février 2011 - 06:49 .

[Xewaka]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...
As to the flambouyant elf thing; well Fenris seemed fairly flouncy to me in the trailers and what not. You guys are right about him seeming to have a more serious character which hopefully will mitigate the tropiness of doing the Gay Elf again.

I highly doubt anyone described as a more stoic character than Valen Shadowbreath is going to be anything close to "flouncy" or stereotypically "Gay Elf."

I always thought gay elf was redundant.

[Ryzaki]

Please list the various gay elves through out fiction media and literature.

And really he's a sterotype because he's an lef? Even if he acts nothing like the typical elven sterotype? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 06:49 .

[ScotGaymer]

Again Ryzaki you arent actually read what I am saying. You are reading and responding to part of it; cherry picking half a post.



Please focus on the whole point/thrust of what I am saying instead of nitpicking please!

[Ryzaki]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Thats precisely it.

I am not objecting to the fact that he is an elf; I am just saying its kinda already been done in DAO with Zevran (though he is a different sort of person) and that something a bit different would be nice.
Given the various examples of the gay or bi elf in various varying forms of fiction, media, and literature it is almost verging on a trope. And I dislike tropes. They are a bit like stereotypes. Fine when they are done comedically but potentially dangerous when done seriously.

I am objecting to the dangers of tropifying characters. And wishing for something a bit different. Whats wrong with that?

This is what you said.

What various examples of gay elves are in varying forms of fiction? 

It's like peopl saw one Penny Arcade Comic and started jumping to ridculous conclusions. <_<

How is Fenris a sterotype? 

And Anders is closer to Zev's personality typ than Fenris. So once again. How exactly is Fenris a sterotype? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 06:55 .

[ScotGaymer]

*le sigh*



Okay again you are missing the point.



So I am not going to reply.



Sorry.

[Ryzaki]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

*le sigh*

Okay again you are missing the point.

So I am not going to reply.

Sorry.

without those examples you have no point!

You can't just say: "Oh this is a trope." when it's only been used rarely.

If there was supposedly "various examples of gay elves in media." you'd be able to point them out! 

As forBW developing a trope: If 2 elves are troping despite the elves having diferential personalities...

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 06:59 .

[Blue_Shayde]

FitScotGaymer wrote..
I am not objecting to the fact that he is an elf; I am just saying its kinda already been done in DAO with Zevran (though he is a different sort of person) and that something a bit different would be nice.
Given the various examples of the gay or bi elf in various varying forms of fiction, media, and literature it is almost verging on a trope.

I'm confused to. once again, the only thing your pointing at is that he's an elf. I just said its his personality I'm looking at. A Stoic Warrior.

Ignore the race for a moment. We've had the flirty, easy-going lover. we've got the easy-going rogue. we've had the churchy type.

Zevran was a flirty, easy-going lover. Fenris would not be because he doesn't like physical contact and  is stoic looking.

Bring his race into it and complaining about tropes is silly. In that since, can't I say this? Not another gay/lesbian human! That's been done a million times! And yet, I don't see anyone ever complain about tropes when its human. in fact...when its human, they suddenly ignore race and focus on the personality. So why can't we do that with elves to?

[ScotGaymer]

Sorry Ryzaki but you arent getting the point. Dont mean to be rude here sorry.

No point in getting into it because you wont actually read the entirety of what i am saying; so just accept that I was hoping for something a little bit different than the gay elf and the lesbian rogue.
And am a bit bummed about the fact that we arent getting either.


@Shayde.

Yes I was agreeing with you. And was revising my opinion a bit.

As I said I hope that the fact that he is a different person from Zevran that it will mitigate the whole "gay elf" thing a bit; or alot (im hoping).

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 08 février 2011 - 07:05 .

[Ryzaki]

So your only problem is because he's an elf he's a sterotype?

Okay then. Apparently when it comes to elves personality doesn't matter.


So if a human male is flamboyant he's less of a sterotype than a stoic elven male. Okay then.

And your point about the trope means little if you can't provide examples.

One example isn't making a trope.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 février 2011 - 07:08 .

[Blue_Shayde]

maybe what fitscot is saying and not wording right is he doesn't want a flamboyant, sex-loving elf. a stoic elf would be ok. by gay, he might be referring to the sort of flamboyant stereotype we see. and since Zevran was that...he wants a different sort of elf. that's where he's getting the elf part, maybe?

[Ryzaki]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

maybe what fitscot is saying and not wording right is he doesn't want a flamboyant, sex-loving elf. a stoic elf would be ok. by gay, he might be referring to the sort of flamboyant stereotype we see. and since Zevran was that...he wants a different sort of elf. that's where he's getting the elf part, maybe?

Oh in that case I apologize.

I don't see how Anders is less of a sterotype than Fenris though. Frankly it looks the other way around to me.

[connorthedragonslayer]

My stance on the whole Fenris thing is simply: I do not want to date an elf.



I'm just elfist like that.

[Blue_Shayde]

^ Hee hee...i think we all have that side, though. I for one don't want to date a dwarf. ^^'

[Jimmy Fury]

Saibh wrote...

One elf doesn't make a pattern. I really do think we're tricking us into thinking it is. Like you said, it's the flamboyant elf that would be a problem. However, I feel the need to point out that Anders is going to be much more flamboyant than Fenris.
So, in all honesty, even though Zevran and Fenris' personalities are wildly different, would you still have a problem? Just because he is an elf, and Anders isn't? Despite Anders having more traits in common with Zevran?

To play devil's advocate for a moment:
You're right that one elf doesn't make a pattern. Neither does 2. But what about 3? 4? Because if Fenris is bi I can name 4 gay/bisexual elves off the top of my head.: Cluracan from Sandman, Zander from Drawn Together (who is a gay elf from a fantasy game no less...), Zevran, and then Fenris.

Even 4 might not be a pattern but it could become a pattern. Effiminate elf is already a trope. It doesn't matter if Fenris is effeminate or a giant tattooed bucket of testosterone. If Gay Elf becomes a trope of its own the two will inevitably get linked.



No longer Devil's Advocate: But personally I just like scruff. Elves have no scruff. Not wanting an elf because you're not keen on hairless twinks is just as valid as not wanting a dwarf because you don't like short fuzzy guys.

[ScotGaymer]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Saibh wrote...

One elf doesn't make a pattern. I really do think we're tricking us into thinking it is. Like you said, it's the flamboyant elf that would be a problem. However, I feel the need to point out that Anders is going to be much more flamboyant than Fenris.
So, in all honesty, even though Zevran and Fenris' personalities are wildly different, would you still have a problem? Just because he is an elf, and Anders isn't? Despite Anders having more traits in common with Zevran?

To play devil's advocate for a moment:
You're right that one elf doesn't make a pattern. Neither does 2. But what about 3? 4? Because if Fenris is bi I can name 4 gay/bisexual elves off the top of my head.: Cluracan from Sandman, Zander from Drawn Together (who is a gay elf from a fantasy game no less...), Zevran, and then Fenris.

Even 4 might not be a pattern but it could become a pattern. Effiminate elf is already a trope. It doesn't matter if Fenris is effeminate or a giant tattooed bucket of testosterone. If Gay Elf becomes a trope of its own the two will inevitably get linked.



No longer Devil's Advocate: But personally I just like scruff. Elves have no scruff. Not wanting an elf because you're not keen on hairless twinks is just as valid as not wanting a dwarf because you don't like short fuzzy guys.

Thank you Jimmy Fury.

That was precisely my point; I didnt say it was a trope or a stereotype but that it was nearing/verging on one and that id like very much to avoid that.