8194 réponses à ce sujet

[ReallyRue]

I've decided to subscribe to the idea that all the companions are bi. Although that seems unlikely (not everyone IRL is bi), I think it would please more people, because then everyone has four options, for both gay and straight. Hope it is so. At the moment, neither Anders nor Fenris give any impression of liking men, but they've both shown an interest in women.

[Erani]

^ Even though yes, not everyone IRL is bi, if we are getting 4 LIs it wouldn't be unreasonable to think they are all bi. I mean 4 people out of whatever huge number of people live in Thedas is a very small fraction LOL. Also, that way everyone is happy because we all get to romance everyone with each gender, and honestly I was very disappointed with the way Witch Hunt ended for my female Wardens...so maybe that'd be prevented if all LIs are bi.

[Nefarious Asparagus]

I am personally okay with a little suspension of disbelief regarding what amounts to an optional sidequest in a high fantasy video game.

Anyway, it's probably rather easy to make all the companions bi options without making it seem too coincidental or compromising their identities (in a fictional context), anyway--have a couple of them actually identify as straight (or gay) and have your Hawke be the surprising exception. That happens plenty in real life, too. Identifying as straight or gay doesn't mean 100% exclusivity.

Modifié par Nefarious Asparagus, 19 février 2011 - 04:39 .

[Blue_Shayde]

^ I agree. Bi for all. scrap the realism argument, this is a fantasy game. xD

We're saying Gaider says adding all bi LI wouldn't be cost effective and take to many resources.......but isn't this also the person who said adding in a s/s romance was not that much trouble at all to do? So those two ideas contradict each other, don't they? I agree with the past thoughts, I think what Gaider said was in reference to a all-gay character, not all bi. so bring on the choices! ^^ *tosses confetti inside the happy bubble of bi LI*

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 19 février 2011 - 04:07 .

[Incantrix]

Hmmmm...how would all bi not be cost effective? By the end of the day everyone can romance the same person; no complaints and no trying to cater to anyone. Maybe im misunderstanding something? =/

[Russalka]

Incantrix wrote...

Hmmmm...how would all bi not be cost effective? By the end of the day everyone can romance the same person; no complaints and no trying to cater to anyone. Maybe im misunderstanding something? =/

I would like it if most of the dialogue concerning romance reflected which sex Hawke is.

Modifié par Russalka, 19 février 2011 - 09:29 .

[Incantrix]

^ I agree, would solve all the angst of the romance drama that is dragon age lol

[FenrisDeSolar]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

FenrisDeSolar wrote...

Yes, well, I don't see a lot of guys complaining about that, and that really annoys me, actually. Why are so many more people fine with lesbians than gay men?! >_<

'Cause I hated Leliana?  I hate lesbians?  But some of my best friends are lesbians!  Actually, I think I just hated Leliana and never cared about anything she had to say.  (Actually, it's a good question, but I'm not sure it actually has to do with relative comfort of lesbians versus gay men. I just think it's an M/M thread so the focus is on and comparisons are being made to Zevran. But... I could be wrong, and frequently am.) 

No, it's a fair point. That question is sort of misplaced. I'm returning to mah pr0nz now...

[Jimmy Fury]

Russalka wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

Hmmmm...how would all bi not be cost effective? By the end of the day everyone can romance the same person; no complaints and no trying to cater to anyone. Maybe im misunderstanding something? =/

I would like it if most of the dialogue concerning romance reflected which sex Hawke is.

Wouldn't that get a bit... forced after a while? In conversation with other companions it makes sense but in conversation with hawke, which is where the romance dialogue will occur... It wouldn't fit very well would it?

I mean, when you talk to someone you use personal pronouns, not third person pronouns. Personal pronouns are mostly genderless. You, Your, Us, We, Our...
If Hawke eventually gets a title of some sort that might work but even then DA uses a few genderless titles like Ser.

A few lines here and there is one thing but most of the dialogue? I dunno. I can't see that working very well.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 20 février 2011 - 06:51 .

[Nefarious Asparagus]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

Hmmmm...how would all bi not be cost effective? By the end of the day everyone can romance the same person; no complaints and no trying to cater to anyone. Maybe im misunderstanding something? =/

I would like it if most of the dialogue concerning romance reflected which sex Hawke is.

Wouldn't that get a bit... forced after a while? In conversation with other companions it makes sense but in conversation with hawke, which is where the romance dialogue will occur... It wouldn't fit very well would it?

I mean, when you talk to someone you use personal pronouns, not third person pronouns. Personal pronouns are mostly genderless. You, Your, Us, We, Our...
If Hawke eventually gets a title of some sort that might work but even then DA uses a few genderless titles like Ser.

A few lines here and there is one thing but most of the dialogue? I dunno. I can't see that working very well.

A lot of your language when referring or talking to another person is gendered, whether it's overt or not. For instance, I used the Equal Love mod to try romancing Alistair as a male Warden, and gave up on it shortly into it because him acting like my character was female was too weird, even though he never made any explicit references to femininity. Gender (at least re: male/female dichotomy)  is so intrinsic to our language/culture that trying to stay as gender-neutral as possible is actually probably gonna be pretty noticeable. How often (especially when you are straight) do you refer to your s.o. as just that, over boyfriend/girlfriend?

[IndelibleJester]

Nefarious Asparagus wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

Hmmmm...how would all bi not be cost effective? By the end of the day everyone can romance the same person; no complaints and no trying to cater to anyone. Maybe im misunderstanding something? =/

I would like it if most of the dialogue concerning romance reflected which sex Hawke is.

Wouldn't that get a bit... forced after a while? In conversation with other companions it makes sense but in conversation with hawke, which is where the romance dialogue will occur... It wouldn't fit very well would it?

I mean, when you talk to someone you use personal pronouns, not third person pronouns. Personal pronouns are mostly genderless. You, Your, Us, We, Our...
If Hawke eventually gets a title of some sort that might work but even then DA uses a few genderless titles like Ser.

A few lines here and there is one thing but most of the dialogue? I dunno. I can't see that working very well.

A lot of your language when referring or talking to another person is gendered, whether it's overt or not. For instance, I used the Equal Love mod to try romancing Alistair as a male Warden, and gave up on it shortly into it because him acting like my character was female was too weird, even though he never made any explicit references to femininity. Gender (at least re: male/female dichotomy)  is so intrinsic to our language/culture that trying to stay as gender-neutral as possible is actually probably gonna be pretty noticeable. How often (especially when you are straight) do you refer to your s.o. as just that, over boyfriend/girlfriend?

I always call my SO my SO specifically to make them genderless to whoever I'm speaking to.

But I might be in the minority.

[Blue_Shayde]

IndelibleJester wrote...

Nefarious Asparagus wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

Hmmmm...how would all bi not be cost effective? By the end of the day everyone can romance the same person; no complaints and no trying to cater to anyone. Maybe im misunderstanding something? =/

I would like it if most of the dialogue concerning romance reflected which sex Hawke is.

Wouldn't that get a bit... forced after a while? In conversation with other companions it makes sense but in conversation with hawke, which is where the romance dialogue will occur... It wouldn't fit very well would it?

I mean, when you talk to someone you use personal pronouns, not third person pronouns. Personal pronouns are mostly genderless. You, Your, Us, We, Our...
If Hawke eventually gets a title of some sort that might work but even then DA uses a few genderless titles like Ser.

A few lines here and there is one thing but most of the dialogue? I dunno. I can't see that working very well.

A lot of your language when referring or talking to another person is gendered, whether it's overt or not. For instance, I used the Equal Love mod to try romancing Alistair as a male Warden, and gave up on it shortly into it because him acting like my character was female was too weird, even though he never made any explicit references to femininity. Gender (at least re: male/female dichotomy)  is so intrinsic to our language/culture that trying to stay as gender-neutral as possible is actually probably gonna be pretty noticeable. How often (especially when you are straight) do you refer to your s.o. as just that, over boyfriend/girlfriend?

I always call my SO my SO specifically to make them genderless to whoever I'm speaking to.

But I might be in the minority.

Er...its not really that big of a deal. Its just a couple lines of coding, where you set a flag according to the gender flag which sets it in conversations so they'll refer to you as a he/she accordingly. The same flag would also dictate which conversations are available. There would be no need for the use of genderless pronouns.

[Nefarious Asparagus]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

Er...its not really that big of a deal. Its just a couple lines of coding, where you set a flag according to the gender flag which sets it in conversations so they'll refer to you as a he/she accordingly. The same flag would also dictate which conversations are available. There would be no need for the use of genderless pronouns.

Well, my point is that your language, and the ways in which you interact with people, are gendered beyond just which kinds of pronouns you use. It's not simply a matter of changing them. Zevran and Leliana had quite a few different conversations depending on what gender the Warden was and honestly I prefer it that way; gives the relationship a bit more verisimilitude. I'm no programmer, but I'm sure that it takes more than a few lines of coding to have that variability.

Regardless of how much it does take, that costs extra money to write and voice, and DA2 has a limited budget, and the devs have admitted that romance options are not incredibly high on their priority list. That's why it's very unlikely we'll be getting all-bi LIs.

As an aside, I sure wish posting had a preview button.

Modifié par Nefarious Asparagus, 20 février 2011 - 07:41 .

[Nefarious Asparagus]

Double post.

Modifié par Nefarious Asparagus, 20 février 2011 - 07:36 .

[Blacklash93]

Most of the M/M exclusive dialogue with Zevran basically broke down "U gay?" and Zevran going on about his childhood among prostitutes and the open-mindedness of Antivans. It was kind of annoying how he always had to justify his sexuality with that stuff.



Hopefully they stay away from that in DA2.

[Dasher1010]

I suggest we retitle this threat the offciail Gay Wardens' hangout thread or at the very least have a Gay Wardens group.

[Blue_Shayde]

^ I like that title. xD Gay Wardens, welcome.

[moilami]

IndelibleJester wrote...

Nefarious Asparagus wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

Hmmmm...how would all bi not be cost effective? By the end of the day everyone can romance the same person; no complaints and no trying to cater to anyone. Maybe im misunderstanding something? =/

I would like it if most of the dialogue concerning romance reflected which sex Hawke is.

Wouldn't that get a bit... forced after a while? In conversation with other companions it makes sense but in conversation with hawke, which is where the romance dialogue will occur... It wouldn't fit very well would it?

I mean, when you talk to someone you use personal pronouns, not third person pronouns. Personal pronouns are mostly genderless. You, Your, Us, We, Our...
If Hawke eventually gets a title of some sort that might work but even then DA uses a few genderless titles like Ser.

A few lines here and there is one thing but most of the dialogue? I dunno. I can't see that working very well.

A lot of your language when referring or talking to another person is gendered, whether it's overt or not. For instance, I used the Equal Love mod to try romancing Alistair as a male Warden, and gave up on it shortly into it because him acting like my character was female was too weird, even though he never made any explicit references to femininity. Gender (at least re: male/female dichotomy)  is so intrinsic to our language/culture that trying to stay as gender-neutral as possible is actually probably gonna be pretty noticeable. How often (especially when you are straight) do you refer to your s.o. as just that, over boyfriend/girlfriend?

I always call my SO my SO specifically to make them genderless to whoever I'm speaking to.

But I might be in the minority.

In FInnish language we don't have "he" and "she". We only have "hän", and it can mean either he or she, there is no way you can tell which. I find English better in a way it is more clear. You instantly know the gender. On the other hand it is complicated because you need to write "he or she" when you could write in Finnish just "hän".


Edit: It is very common in Finnish language by the way use word "se" which is "it" in English. Like "who was it", "where did it go" etc etc. All fine and very commonly used in every day speech and literature when talking about human beings, even though once every 10 years you can hear someone saying that kind of speaking is not good.

Edit: Learn Finnish if you want to speak genderlessly.

Modifié par moilami, 20 février 2011 - 02:52 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Nefarious Asparagus wrote...
A lot of your language when referring or talking to another person is gendered, whether it's overt or not. For instance, I used the Equal Love mod to try romancing Alistair as a male Warden, and gave up on it shortly into it because him acting like my character was female was too weird, even though he never made any explicit references to femininity. Gender (at least re: male/female dichotomy)  is so intrinsic to our language/culture that trying to stay as gender-neutral as possible is actually probably gonna be pretty noticeable. How often (especially when you are straight) do you refer to your s.o. as just that, over boyfriend/girlfriend?

I have to disagree with several points:
1: I use the equal love mod to romance alistair and only noticed gender specific dialogue a couple of times. The vast majority of those were party-banter with someone refering to the warden as "she". He has a few lines where he specifies that you're a lady but that's it. 

2: I still maintain that english is a lot more gendered in the third person than in the first. Look at the boards. We really have no idea what sex anyone is on here. We assume based on avatars but we can be wrong.
Yet until we start talking about someone instead of to someone their sex is mostly irrelivant. Take this whole post for example. I have no idea what your sex is and that's fine. Nothing I have said or will say is gendered so I don't need to know your sex.

3: I never said "as gender neutral as possible" I just said making most of the romance dialogue, between Hawke and the LI, gender specific would sound forced after a while. You brought up a good example though so let's use that.
I refer to my ex boyfriend as my ex boyfriend. It's third person. He's not here and I'm not talking to him.
In a first person conversation with him though, I call him Brandon.
In third person I might say "my boyfriend's pants were in the hall"  but to him I might say "why are your pants in the hall?" it's gender neutral. I wouldn't yell across the apartment "Boyfriend! Get your pants out of the hall!" I would yell his name.
Making most of the dialogue between the LI and Hawke gender specific would result in lines like "You're pants are in the hall good lady" Which after a while would sound a bit... I mean Merril knows she has girl-parts you don't need to keep calling her lady.

But, again, conversations between the LI and others that are about Hawke, yeah that makes sense. I never said otherwise.

[Incantrix]

I just think that if the all bi thing were to happen, it would be initiated by the player, that is all.

[moilami]

Incantrix wrote...

I just think that if the all bi thing were to happen, it would be initiated by the player, that is all.

Definetly would prefer it that way. Companions should have some manners and try not to hit male Hawke who they can see is not interested. I would though understand if some would still try as devs decision to "tell a story", but it would not be appreciated by my Warden.

[Blue_Shayde]

moilami wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

I just think that if the all bi thing were to happen, it would be initiated by the player, that is all.

Definetly
would prefer it that way. Companions should have some manners and try
not to hit male Hawke who they can see is not interested. I would though
understand if some would still try as devs decision to "tell a story",
but it would not be appreciated by my Warden.

Considering the different personalities, I could only see Isabela and Anders being the type to hit on you on their own. Anders, only if they haven't completely rewritten his entire personality. (and your female...not sure if he was bi how open to offering himself to a male he'd be) Still, if all LI are Bi, that would answer their promise that ...what was it...something for all genders and orientations. (was that the exact wording. xD or was it all sexes or all tastes? ah well) We'd all get an elf and a human to choose from. (poor dwarf fans. =(   )

Modifié par Blue_Shayde, 20 février 2011 - 05:27 .

[moilami]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

moilami wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

I just think that if the all bi thing were to happen, it would be initiated by the player, that is all.

Definetly
would prefer it that way. Companions should have some manners and try
not to hit male Hawke who they can see is not interested. I would though
understand if some would still try as devs decision to "tell a story",
but it would not be appreciated by my Warden.

Considering the different personalities, I could only see Isabela and Anders being the type to hit on you on their own. Anders, only if they haven't completely rewritten his entire personality. (and your female...not sure if he was bi how open to offering himself to a male he'd be) Still, if all LI are Bi, that would answer their promise that ...what was it...something for all genders and orientations. (was that the exact wording. xD or was it all sexes or all tastes? ah well) We'd all get an elf and a human to choose from. (poor dwarf fans. =(   )

Isabella certainly would try to hit me if she so wanted to do. Of Anders I am not very sure. I think he could if he wanted, but I think he would still not do it just because he wants to do it. Zevran would had tried to hit me if he wanted.

[Incantrix]

Blue_Shayde wrote...

moilami wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

I just think that if the all bi thing were to happen, it would be initiated by the player, that is all.

Definetly
would prefer it that way. Companions should have some manners and try
not to hit male Hawke who they can see is not interested. I would though
understand if some would still try as devs decision to "tell a story",
but it would not be appreciated by my Warden.

Considering the different personalities, I could only see Isabela and Anders being the type to hit on you on their own. Anders, only if they haven't completely rewritten his entire personality. (and your female...not sure if he was bi how open to offering himself to a male he'd be) Still, if all LI are Bi, that would answer their promise that ...what was it...something for all genders and orientations. (was that the exact wording. xD or was it all sexes or all tastes? ah well) We'd all get an elf and a human to choose from. (poor dwarf fans. =(   )

Don't remind me of the heart break!

[Finis Valorum]

moilami wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

I just think that if the all bi thing were to happen, it would be initiated by the player, that is all.

Definetly would prefer it that way. Companions should have some manners and try not to hit male Hawke who they can see is not interested. I would though understand if some would still try as devs decision to "tell a story", but it would not be appreciated by my Warden.

Well I think that ideally it should depend on the personality of the companion in question. If it fits their genral character to aggressively go after what they want then they should probably also do so in matters of love and give the player the option to turn them down subtly or hard if they so wish should they not share the attraction.

For example in the extremely unlikely event that Sebastian would be a bi Li, and assuming he's the kind of noble who usually gets what he wants it would be nice if he'd let my male characters know so himself without me having to drag it out of them especially if he's the type to chase after the ladies.

If Anders is the m/m Li however then yes I do hope we have to drag it out of him because then I can totally ignore it. As for Fenris I wouldn't care either way, I will likely never get over his teenage looks when it comes to that possibility but if it would be in character for him to hit on the guys, then by all means he should do that.

In short i hope the world of Dragon Age is a gay panic free world where people don't feel threatened by simply receiving a flattering comment or cheesy pick up line from someone of the same gender.