25 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

Over the NYs break I played through as a soldier for the first time since getting the firepower pack. I have used the Mattock before as a collector ship upgrade and thought it was good but not broken. However after using it with Adrenaline rush I have no idea what they were thinking. Can anyone confirm that adrenaline rush does not "slow down" the rate of fire for the mattock the way it does other weapons? To me it appears to still fire as fast as you can pull the trigger with everything else slowed down and still gaining the massive damage bonus.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Yes. It's a bug with the Mattock that basically makes it the most damaging non-heavy weapon in the game when under AR.

[Praetor Knight]

I'd love to try the Shuriken under AR, if it's the same set trigger feature I'm thinking of on the Mattock.

[sinosleep]

Adrenaline rush mattock damage is OBSCENE

[kstarler]

I notice a slowdown under both AR's, but it's mainly because I'm in the top percentile of clickers. That said, the slowdown is FAR more visible with heightened AR. And yes, the Mattock + AR is overpowered.

[ScroguBlitzen]

sinosleep wrote...

Adrenaline rush mattock damage is OBSCENE

Exactly how obscene are we talking about?
Just profane or REALLY  offensive?

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 04 janvier 2011 - 10:52 .

[sinosleep]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

Exactly how obscene are we talking about?
Just profane or REALLY  offensive?

I'm talking, MONUMENTALLY abhorrent. It's almost too odious for words!

[Tony Gunslinger]

I don't know if it's an oversight or if it was deliberate, but the cat's out of the bag now, so it wouldn't surprise me to see a hissy fit if and when they did patch it up.

[sinosleep]

It's DLC, and from what I understand DLC is a mother****er to patch since it all has it's on kernel or some such, making even things that really need to be patched (like the archon visor) all but impossible.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Damn, good point. I think a similar thing happened with Borderlands when they released a DLC that raised the level cap. They couldn't patch the rest of the game, so whoever played the DLC (which was virtually everyone) overleveled and the rest of the game was completely worthless to go back to. It took them forever to release the fix, which happened a few months ago, and by then alot of people had already left for other games.

[jwalker]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

I don't know if it's an oversight or if it was deliberate, but the cat's out of the bag now, so it wouldn't surprise me to see a hissy fit if and when they did patch it up.

Just like with Kasumi DLC...
Her passive is broken. They should fix it, right ?
But I don't see many complaints about Flashbang Granades rendering Harby useless for the whole duration of a fight...

[sinosleep]

Yeah, it kinda sucks the amount of self regulating players that don't want to "game" the game have to do. Be careful of the stasis bug, don't use FB on Harby, etc, etc, etc.

[SirValeq]

Actually, with some modding skills it's possible to tone the Mattock down for yourself. There's a way to edit DLC weapons (and the only thing you lose is their in-game name and description displays) just like the regular ones in coalesced.ini. But has anybody ever done that for the Mattock? I doubt it. With all the crying and raging about overpowered stuff, very few people ever stop using it.

If anything, I'm sure people modded it to have more ammo and larger magazines!

[Malanek]

iLikeBWgames wrote...

Actually, with some modding skills it's possible to tone the Mattock down for yourself. There's a way to edit DLC weapons (and the only thing you lose is their in-game name and description displays) just like the regular ones in coalesced.ini. But has anybody ever done that for the Mattock? I doubt it. With all the crying and raging about overpowered stuff, very few people ever stop using it.
If anything, I'm sure people modded it to have more ammo and larger magazines!

The question is whether you can specifically slow it down when, and only when, you have adrenaline rush operating. I don't have a problem with it outside of AR.

[sinosleep]

Malanek999 wrote...


The question is whether you can specifically slow it down when, and only when, you have adrenaline rush operating. I don't have a problem with it outside of AR.

Same here, outside of AR I don't really think it's all that crazy a weapon. It's still very good since it's all around attributes are great, but the viper crushes it against armor and the carnifex edges it out on every other class. 

[ScroguBlitzen]

sinosleep wrote...

the carnifex edges it (Mattock) out on every other class. 

No.

It's burst damage may edge out the Mattock, but there is more to consider:
Average shots per heat sink pickup: Carnifex = 5, Mattock = 18.5
Shots per clip reload: Carnifex = 6, Mattock = 16
Average damage per heat sink pickup: Carnifex = 427, Mattock = 932
Average damage per reload: Carnifex = 512, Mattock = 806
More subjectively: Carnifex zoom is a little too much, Mattock zoom is perfect

Also

Quit posting Torchlight videos and making me eager for Diablo 3.  With our luck, Diablo 3 and Mass Effect 3 will come out on the same day.  I love Mass Effect, but it will lose out to Diablo 3 for me if I have to choose.  I may have to go play some torchlight though to pass the time...

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:46 .

[SirValeq]

Malanek999 wrote...
The question is whether you can specifically slow it down when, and only when, you have adrenaline rush operating. I don't have a problem with it outside of AR.

It's not about slowing it down. It's about setting a logical minimum refire rate (like it's done with all other weapons). You could for example set it the same as the Viper, and the Mattock is actually supposed to have the same RPM as the Viper if you look at the dev comments in its config file.
Still, it's a player-side solution and not everybody can or wants to dabble in such things.
They certainly didn't test the DLC properly before releasing it.

[sinosleep]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

No.

It's burst damage may edge out the Mattock, but there is more to consider:
Average shots per heat sink pickup: Carnifex = 5, Mattock = 18.5
Shots per clip reload: Carnifex = 6, Mattock = 16
Average damage per heat sink pickup: Carnifex = 427, Mattock = 932
Average damage per reload: Carnifex = 512, Mattock = 806
More subjectively: Carnifex zoom is a little too much, Mattock zoom is perfect

Also

Quit posting Torchlight videos and making me eager for Diablo 3.  With our luck, Diablo 3 and Mass Effect 3 will come out on the same day.  I love Mass Effect, but it will lose out to Diablo 3 for me if I have to choose.  I may have to go play some torchlight though to pass the time...

*thread derailing in progress* 

If it's between D3 and ME 3, ME 3 is going to have to wait. D3 is my first love, ME 3 is my current girl friend, and in that battle the first love is going to come out on top each and every time.

*thread back on track* 

Plus, the carnifex would only edge it against armor any way, although I'm still of the opinion that outside of AR the mattock isn't really TOO crazy.

[implodinggoat]

I really don't think the Adrenaline Rush on the Mattock is excessive since you can only really take advantage of its really high ROF when you're targeting a single powerful enemy and if you do so you'll eat up a lot of ammo in the process which means that you can't rely on unloading the thing like that as a general strategy.



The Mattock is a very powerful weapon; but I don't think its overpowered since its limited ammo forces you to limit the degree to which you fully unleash the thing. Unleashing it to drop the occasional charging Krogan or YMIR mech is fine; but if you unleash it on every enemy you meet you'll run out of ammo real quick.

[SirValeq]

Mattock? Ammo problems? Huh?



Check out sinosleep's vid of a Mattock soldier on Horizon. Using Mattock under AR let's you conserve ammo, not waste it, because of the huge damage boost. I don't really understand your logic.

[Ahglock]

Yeah the mattock does not have ammo issues IMO. Its damage per bullet is great and each heat clip you pick up gives back a lot of ammo.

[implodinggoat]

iLikeBWgames wrote...

Mattock? Ammo problems? Huh?

Check out sinosleep's vid of a Mattock soldier on Horizon. Using Mattock under AR let's you conserve ammo, not waste it, because of the huge damage boost. I don't really understand your logic.

I'm not talking about using it in Adrenaline Rush, I'm talking about really unloading with the thing all the time rather than firing in controlled bursts of 2 or 3 shots.

Unleashing the Mattock in AR against elite enemies is great; but against low level enemies you need to fire in controlled bursts or the ammo thirst will get to you.

Mordin's loyalty mission is a good example since its filled with a lot of charging Krogan which the Mattock is great for bringing down quickly; but those Krogan do eat up a lot of ammo and they are backed up by a lot of Vorcha who you need to take down with one or two well placed shots if you want to have the ammo left to bring down those Krogan.

The Mattock can be devestating when you unload with it in AR; but even with the AR damage bonus you can't fire it haphazardly if you want to keep it fed with ammo.

[Ahglock]

Since the mattock is absurdly accurate and it is one bullet per mouse click I have never had issues with firing haphazardly. It is however many bullets I need and no more to the head almost every time.

[implodinggoat]

Ahglock wrote...

Yeah the mattock does not have ammo issues IMO. Its damage per bullet is great and each heat clip you pick up gives back a lot of ammo.

It definitely doesn't have ammo issues like the Vindicator or Carnifex do.

I did the math once and a thermal clip for the Vindicator gives you enough ammo to do around 650 damage while a thermal clip for the Mattock gave you enough ammo to do  over 900 damage.

If you maintain your accuracy with the Mattock its ammo rarely becomes a limitation unless you're engaging a bunch of enemies who don't drop ammo like Husks.

Since Assault Rifles tend to be your go to weapon, I think the Mattock is about as ammo hungry as an assault rifle should be.  If you're accurate with it and use your other weapons you won't have ammo problems with it; but if you rely on it too much and don't strive for accuracy the ammo limitations will bite you in the ass.

I could see reducing the amount of ammo per thermal clip a little for the Mattock in ME3; but I really don't find the weapon to be terribly overpowered.  The only really overpowered weapons in my opinion are the Locust SMG which has no weaknesses at all and the Viper which has too much ammo considering its power and accuracy aside from those I think most of the weapons should be made more powerful so that they are viable alternatives to the most devestating weapons like the Mattock, Revenant, Geth Shotty, Viper and Widow.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 06 janvier 2011 - 07:01 .

[ShaggyWolf]

implodinggoat wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Yeah the mattock does not have ammo issues IMO. Its damage per bullet is great and each heat clip you pick up gives back a lot of ammo.

It definitely doesn't have ammo issues like the Vindicator or Carnifex do.

I did the math once and a thermal clip for the Vindicator gives you enough ammo to do around 650 damage while a thermal clip for the Mattock gave you enough ammo to do  over 900 damage.

If you maintain your accuracy with the Mattock its ammo rarely becomes a limitation unless you're engaging a bunch of enemies who don't drop ammo like Husks.

Since Assault Rifles tend to be your go to weapon, I think the Mattock is about as ammo hungry as an assault rifle should be.  If you're accurate with it and use your other weapons you won't have ammo problems with it; but if you rely on it too much and don't strive for accuracy the ammo limitations will bite you in the ass.

I could see reducing the amount of ammo per thermal clip a little for the Mattock in ME3; but I really don't find the weapon to be terribly overpowered.  The only really overpowered weapons in my opinion are the Locust SMG which has no weaknesses at all and the Viper which has too much ammo considering its power and accuracy aside from those I think most of the weapons should be made more powerful so that they are viable alternatives to the most devestating weapons like the Mattock, Revenant, Geth Shotty, Viper and Widow.

I really agree with this post. Especially the bit about using all the guns as a soldier. If soldiers don't do that they will suffer from the Mattock's drawback, as you said; and they'll also generally be an underwhelming force in a fight, but that's another matter

I like the idea of improving the other weapons. For instance, I really like the way the vindicator feels and functions (It's really fun to rack up headshots with). And it's very useful in the early game because of its accuracy. The mattock does have a fairly loose pattern until you get the AR accuracy upgrade, so the vindicator would fill a great niche there- except even if a few mattock bullets miss the mark, it still outperforms the vindicator.

Anyway, the Mattock's undeniably good but I don't think it's to the point of needing a nerf or anything, as you said.