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how much health/defenses enemies ACTUALLY have (biotics AREN'T gimped) (now with video!)


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#51
Ahglock

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Amyntas wrote...

It's not lack of damage, but the fact that CC is limited on higher difficulties. Since almost all enemies have defenses, area of effect CC is not worth the trouble. What's the point of casting shockwave into a group of enemies that still have defenses? You focus-fire on single targets and don't bring down the defenses of all enemies so you can apply CC... otherwise you would get overwhelmed.


I'll throw area pull because I just hit the same spot with area energy drain, so I will hit multiple targets with my CC.  I do it all the time successfully.  Since I play the adept, I usually throw area pull first then hit them with an area defense stripper right before the pull hits.  Singularity while having a much slower travel time is awesome for this as well.  Throw singularity, pop a defense or two, then start popping other defenses.  Frequently the Ai will have them run right into the singularity as they switch cover locations.(which they do a lot)

#52
Bozorgmehr

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

It's pretty obvious to everyone that all sorts of CQC enemies (Krogan, Varren, Husk, Vanguards, and perhaps Geth Hunters as well) have MUCH more health than defense.

Basic non-CQC troopers always feel like around 1:1 to me.


Krogan, Varren regen health so it looks like they've more.

Krogan, Vanguards and Geth Hunters don't have more health points than defense points. 2 successive Heavy Warp bombs will kill (down to health-) Krogan and Vanguards easily, 2 Heavy Warp won't remove their defenses (maybe 2/3) - [Warp damage is doubled against barrier/armor and against ragdolled enemies thus do equal damage]. A level 20 Adept using Viper (3+2 bonus upgrades - without Warp Ammo ) has to empty an entire clip (12 shots) to drop Vanguard's barrier for example. [Viper doesn't have multiplier used against barrier]

Geth Hunters have very strong shields. I dunno if ratio is 1:1 but I think it's pretty close.

YMIRs have almost no health, maybe 20% of total HPs.

Amyntas wrote...

It's not lack of damage, but the fact that CC is limited on higher difficulties. Since almost all enemies have
defenses, area of effect CC is not worth the trouble. What's the point of casting shockwave into a group of enemies that still have defenses? You focus-fire on single targets and don't bring down the defenses of all enemies so you can apply CC... otherwise you would get overwhelmed.


CC isn't limited at all. You can easily CC lots of enemies (Shepard isn't needed to do so). Garrus Area Overload + Jack/Jacob/Samara/Morinth Pull Field will consistently get 2-3 enemies in the air (against shields); use Incineration Blast/Area Reave against armored enemies, Reave against barrier.

Warp bombs are excellent defense strippers with huge AoE. They also stagger (protected)- and knockdown/kill (unprotected) enemies within its Detonation Radius.

Dominate and AI Hacking are the ultimate CC powers - Singularity and Stasis work on defenses.

Plenty of CC, and well worth the 'trouble' IMHO

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 05 janvier 2011 - 09:49 .


#53
sinosleep

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Amyntas wrote...

It's not lack of damage, but the fact that CC is limited on higher difficulties. Since almost all enemies have defenses, area of effect CC is not worth the trouble. What's the point of casting shockwave into a group of enemies that still have defenses? You focus-fire on single targets and don't bring down the defenses of all enemies so you can apply CC... otherwise you would get overwhelmed.


You are right in that you can't run into a room and immediately break out the AOE CC (although singularity still works plenty well even with defenses up) stick but I'm of the opinion enemy defenses are shredded so quickly if you  and your squadmates apply the proper offensive rock to their defensive scissors that it's a none issue for me. The big difference from normal to insanity is your "on sight" tactic. Instead of immediately going for CC powers you have to either shoot or AOE strip an individual or group to get things started. Once you do that you are a warp explosion away from clearing even more enemies of defenses and starting a chain. And since I've already shown that enemies have plenty of health that is actually harder to take down than their defenses are then there is nothing wrong with doing just that.

If you're going to allow the adept to possess a malleable flaming biotic sledge hammer that bypasses the entire r/p/s defense system then what is the point of establishing it in the first place?

#54
Doctah T

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Kelsjet, I'd like some evidence that guns are more efficient than powers.

#55
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*

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Bozorgmehr wrote...

Krogan, Varren regen health so it looks like they've more.

Krogan, Vanguards and Geth Hunters don't have more health points than defense points. 2 successive Heavy Warp bombs will kill (down to health-) Krogan and Vanguards easily, 2 Heavy Warp won't remove their defenses (maybe 2/3) - [Warp damage is doubled against barrier/armor and against ragdolled enemies thus do equal damage].

Geth Hunters have very strong shields. I dunno if ratio is 1:1 but I think it's pretty close.

YMIRs have almost no health, maybe 20% of total HPs.


Warp Bombs do more total damage than twice the amount of Warp damage because there's an additional physics damage (700 Newtons. And physics damage seem to work better on stripped enemies). After the physics damage enemies are also ragdolled for a few seconds allowing for double weapon damage. Warp Bombs might also benefit from Biotic upgrades more than Warp vs Armor, but I'm not sure.

But you're most likely right that Krogans have near 1 : 1 Health : Armor ratio on Insanity. I was a bit biased because of Grunt's absurd amount of Health. But Varrens and Husks still seem mostly Health to me. Just compare Varrens to FENRIS Mechs. Their Health : Armor ratio appear quite different, even if I use Inferno ammo.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:59 .


#56
Bozorgmehr

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Warp Bombs do more total damage than twice the amount of Warp damage because there's an additional physics damage (700 Newtons. And physics damage seem to work better on stripped enemies). After the physics damage enemies are also ragdolled for a few seconds allowing for double weapon damage.


Very true, but the physical damage is taken when enemies hit obstacles. You can see how much health they've got left right after the explosion and before they hit anything. It is difficult to determine the exact ratio but to me the difference looks pretty significant.

Warp Bombs might also benefit from Biotic upgrades more than Warp vs Armor, but I'm not sure.


I don't think upgrades change anything. A Warp explosion inflicts ~equal damage to enemy protection compared to a single Warp.

But you're most likely right that Krogans have near 1 : 1 Health : Armor ratio on Insanity. I was a bit biased because of Grunt's absurd amount of Health.

Yeah Grunt is pretty tough :devil:

Enemies have pretty strong defenses and health also (more than Shepard without defensive buffs)

Kronner wrote...
NG+: Garrus (Turian Renegade) + Area Overload and 3 tech upgrades is good enough to strip shield of a regular enemy.

160 = Area Overload damage, 30% bonus from tech upgrades, 25% bonus from passive

160 * 1.55 = 248 you get 2x bonus if you hit shields first so 248 * 2 = 496.

It
seems that regular enemies have about that many shield points (~450 is my
guess)


Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 05 janvier 2011 - 11:10 .


#57
kstarler

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EDIT: Bah! I misread what was written. I withdraw my comment.

Modifié par kstarler, 05 janvier 2011 - 11:38 .


#58
Bozorgmehr

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kstarler wrote...

Unless I am misreading what you wrote, and you are not comparing warp against armor and warp bombs against health.


I was comparing the two :D but it wasn't really clear in my post - my bad :)


EDIT:
Thanks for the BBCode tip Sinosleep. I didn't have to go line by line to correct the spacing this time. :D


What BBCode tip? You can correct the damn spacings with one click? Please share, I hate doing that the hard way :P

#59
kstarler

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Bozorgmehr wrote...

kstarler wrote...

Unless I am misreading what you wrote, and you are not comparing warp against armor and warp bombs against health.


I was comparing the two :D but it wasn't really clear in my post - my bad :)


EDIT:
Thanks for the BBCode tip Sinosleep. I didn't have to go line by line to correct the spacing this time. :D


What BBCode tip? You can correct the damn spacings with one click? Please share, I hate doing that the hard way :P


Yeah, sorry about that. I missed the part where you pointed out that warp does double damage to both armor and biotic affected targets, so my point was redundant. As to the BBCode,

sinosleep wrote...

[EDIT HERE]

For everyone have copy/paste issues, here's a work around. Instead of using the quick reply box what you want to do is use the STANDARD FORM. Once in the standard form, and BEFORE you paste anything in click the BBCode box.

Then go ahead and paste the quote/post/whatever inside and click submit.

Your formatting will be the way you want it to be. You can then add in bolds or whatever else by just editing.

It's very helpful if you compose the post in a different program and then past into the forum.

Modifié par kstarler, 05 janvier 2011 - 11:43 .


#60
Bozorgmehr

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kstarler wrote...

As to the BBCode,

sinosleep wrote...

[EDIT HERE]

For everyone have copy/paste issues, here's a work around. Instead of using the quick reply box what you want to do is use the STANDARD FORM. Once in the standard form, and BEFORE you paste anything in click the BBCode box.

Then go ahead and paste the quote/post/whatever inside and click submit.

Your formatting will be the way you want it to be. You can then add in bolds or whatever else by just editing.

It's very helpful if you compose the post in a different program and then past into the forum.


Thanks that should help a lot (you too Sinosleep) :)

#61
Alamar2078

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I'm not sure I properly understand the point of the OP?? I certainly agree that many [most??] targets have a significant amount of health when compared to their defenses.

However once defenses are stripped there are SOOOO many ways to do nasty things to the enemies that they might as well not have any health. So many Biotic, Tech, and Ammo powers shine here that you can [almost] ignore a defenseless enemy.

As far as the "Adepts stink" posts I'm not sure how to take them. I see their point that once defenses are down there are so many things you can do to them that you lose interest. A few well timed, well placed rounds [esp. with a good ammo power] and a single grunt is down. On the other hand if I'm playing an Adept I'm sure as heck not going to ignore a Warp Bomb so I can fling guys around screen, send them spinning in a Singularity, Pull or Push them off a cliff, etc. [I.E. the fun stuff]

Edit:  Oh yeah you can't pass up stripping a guy in the back, pulling in into a crowd, them Warp Bombing him ... :)

Modifié par Alamar2078, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:14 .


#62
Praetor Knight

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Alamar2078 wrote...

I'm not sure I properly understand the point of the OP?? I certainly agree that many [most??] targets have a significant amount of health when compared to their defenses.

There are multipiers that are used against defenses that do not apply to health.

Check here: http://social.biowar...1/index/1143264

#63
Alamar2078

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In strict terms of Biotics I guess some of the whining comes down to:



-- Compared to the [IMHO] overpowered classes you have to work harder & longer ...



-- Some of the systems in place may not make much physical sense. For example I can see Shields & Barriers really messing with Biotic / physical powers. However I don't see Armor offerring nearly the protection levels as Shields / Barriers.

#64
Alamar2078

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Praetor Shepard wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

I'm not sure I properly understand the point of the OP?? I certainly agree that many [most??] targets have a significant amount of health when compared to their defenses.

There are multipiers that are used against defenses that do not apply to health.

Check here: http://social.biowar...1/index/1143264


I'm aware that there are multipliers & other things that apply to defenses but not to health.  My point is that once defenses are stripped the target is so vulnerable to various powers that "I don't care" any more.

I.E. All things being equal I'd probably rather face a grunt with 2x health and no defenses rather than 2x defenses and no health simply because there are so many powers & effects that only work on defenseless targets.

#65
sinosleep

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Alamar2078 wrote...

I'm not sure I properly understand the point of the OP?? I certainly agree that many [most??] targets have a significant amount of health when compared to their defenses.

However once defenses are stripped there are SOOOO many ways to do nasty things to the enemies that they might as well not have any health. So many Biotic, Tech, and Ammo powers shine here that you can [almost] ignore a defenseless enemy.

As far as the "Adepts stink" posts I'm not sure how to take them. I see their point that once defenses are down there are so many things you can do to them that you lose interest. A few well timed, well placed rounds [esp. with a good ammo power] and a single grunt is down. On the other hand if I'm playing an Adept I'm sure as heck not going to ignore a Warp Bomb so I can fling guys around screen, send them spinning in a Singularity, Pull or Push them off a cliff, etc. [I.E. the fun stuff]

Edit:  Oh yeah you can't pass up stripping a guy in the back, pulling in into a crowd, them Warp Bombing him ... :)


A lot of the "adepts suck" crowd take the stance that by the time you get enemies down to health it's not worth the effort to use biotics on them.

That logic implies a) it takes a substantial amount of time to get them to health B) once they are there there's not enough of it to bother doing anything other than continuing to shoot them.

My OP points out that both A) and B) are wrong by virtue of instant AOE counters and the fact that nearly everything in the game recieves modifiers against defenses while not receiving those same modifiers against heatlh. That and then we get into the fact that guns are single target weapons that require ammunition whereas powers can come in the AOE variety and in the case of biotics can be turned into AOE attacks by going with warp bombs.

The game makes it so easy for you to take out defenses, that the claim that they are any more than a minor irritation AT BEST is ludicrous. Then you combine that with the fact that the game ENCOURAGES you to use aoe biotic attacks against defenseless enemies (tech abilities are geared towards defense stripping, other than cryo blast they all recieve bonuses when used against defenses and do LESS damage against health) by virtue of giving you bonuses when enemies are in health.

With regards to singularity, it's best used against enemies WITH defenses, than those without. For one, it saves you time by not having to cast another singularity or pull. You simply cast the singularity on an enemy (which DOES CC through defenses) with protections, THEN remove protections, he automatically gets sucked up, and presto instant warp bomb. For an already defenseless enemy you are better off using pull since it has a shorter CD and can actually hold more enemies longer (the more enemies in a singularity the quicker it pops, pull duration is unaffected by numbers) than a singularity will.

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:59 .


#66
kstarler

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I think you can lump the "Layered defenses are too tedious!" and "Bring back Immunity spam!" folks into this as well as the Adept bashers.

#67
Alamar2078

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Well I am NOT in the "Adepts suck" camp but I am in the camp that says you have to work smarter, harder, and perhaps longer to achieve similar results compared to certain classes that [to me] seem overpowered. [I'm thinking Widow + Mattock Soldier for example as a class that's just too strong even though I enjoy the class]

As for your point that enemies without defenses are more than a minor irritation I would have to disagree with you [at least on "goon-level" enemies]. At this point so many options light up for nasty things to do with them you can nearly ignore them in terms of being a viable threat. Powers or effects that may cause a stumble at this point that totally disable enemies for long periods of time.

For example you would agree that it would be "easier" [maybe not quicker] to kill a goon-level enemy with 500 health and no defenses vs. an enemy with 500 shields and no defenses would you?? My point is that with many classes once you strip defenses the CC and other effects on powers are so magnified that they are almost irrelevant. Actually for adepts a defense stripped enemy becomes a liability for the enemy as warp bombs, chains, ugly crowd control, etc. will rain down and never give enemies a chance.

Note: I may have a biased opinion because the way I play adepts I restrict myself so I don't play them optimally. I'm a "powers only" guy for RP purposes. Therefore my opinions may be biased based on limited exposure to power builds.

EDIT:  I actually think we should have layered defenses.  IMHO even goons should have either Shields or Barriers AND should have Armor.   I think it would be more fun but that's just me.

Modifié par Alamar2078, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:05 .


#68
sinosleep

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You're misunderstanding my argument. I said enemy DEFENSES are nothing more than a minor irritation and as such if you like adepts on normal, you shouldn't have a problem with adepts on insanity. Defenses are so easily dealt with (the game stacks the deck in your favor so heavily it's ridiculous) that I find it hard to believe you could like adepts on normal but think they are useless on insanity.

The points you are making about beating defenseless enemies down with powers are the same points I'm making. Enemies go down quickly on health because all the inventive ways in which you can take them down at that point.  What other people are arguing is that those inventive ways to take them down are a waste of time cause you should just keep shooting them.

Even on classes like the adept that DON'T receive all the weapon damage bonuses that classes like solders, infiltrators, and vanguards do.

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:14 .


#69
The Spamming Troll

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sinosleep wrote...

You're misunderstanding my argument. I said enemy DEFENSES are nothing more than a minor irritation and as such if you like adepts on normal, you shouldn't have a problem with adepts on insanity. Defenses are so easily dealt with (the game stacks the deck in your favor so heavily it's ridiculous) that I find it hard to believe you could like adepts on normal but think they are useless on insanity.

The points you are making about beating defenseless enemies down with powers are the same points I'm making. Enemies go down quickly on health because all the inventive ways in which you can take them down at that point.  What other people are arguing is that those inventive ways to take them down are a waste of time cause you should just keep shooting them.

Even on classes like the adept that DON'T receive all the weapon damage bonuses that classes like solders, infiltrators, and vanguards do.



sure adepts are fun on insanity if you love applying singularity all day long. adepts gameplay should revolve around using all your biotics, but adepts on insaity all play exactly the same. find an enemy, hit em with singularity, follow with warp, then find the next enemy and repeat. i have a problem with enemy protections because im using the predetor and shiruken to take them down, while another class has an AR, shotgun and ammo mods. its not even comparable without enemy protections and its nowhere near comparable with. in my opinion the adept will always be weaker then any other class on insanity because biotics are virtaully disabled and your weapons are sidearms.

enemy protections > adepts.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:51 .


#70
Atmosfear3

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

You're misunderstanding my argument. I said enemy DEFENSES are nothing more than a minor irritation and as such if you like adepts on normal, you shouldn't have a problem with adepts on insanity. Defenses are so easily dealt with (the game stacks the deck in your favor so heavily it's ridiculous) that I find it hard to believe you could like adepts on normal but think they are useless on insanity.

The points you are making about beating defenseless enemies down with powers are the same points I'm making. Enemies go down quickly on health because all the inventive ways in which you can take them down at that point.  What other people are arguing is that those inventive ways to take them down are a waste of time cause you should just keep shooting them.

Even on classes like the adept that DON'T receive all the weapon damage bonuses that classes like solders, infiltrators, and vanguards do.



sure adepts are fun on insanity if you love applying singularity all day long. adepts gameplay should revolve around using all your biotics, but adepts on insaity all play exactly the same. find an enemy, hit em with singularity, follow with warp, then find the next enemy and repeat. i have a problem with enemy protections because im using the predetor and shiruken to take them down, while another class has an AR, shotgun and ammo mods. its not even comparable without enemy protections and its nowhere near comparable with. in my opinion the adept will always be weaker then any other class on insanity because biotics are virtaully disabled and your weapons are sidearms.

enemy protections > adepts.


Thats what you have squadmates for. To make up for what you lack in skills for stripping enemy defenses.

#71
sinosleep

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

You're misunderstanding my argument. I said enemy DEFENSES are nothing more than a minor irritation and as such if you like adepts on normal, you shouldn't have a problem with adepts on insanity. Defenses are so easily dealt with (the game stacks the deck in your favor so heavily it's ridiculous) that I find it hard to believe you could like adepts on normal but think they are useless on insanity.

The points you are making about beating defenseless enemies down with powers are the same points I'm making. Enemies go down quickly on health because all the inventive ways in which you can take them down at that point.  What other people are arguing is that those inventive ways to take them down are a waste of time cause you should just keep shooting them.

Even on classes like the adept that DON'T receive all the weapon damage bonuses that classes like solders, infiltrators, and vanguards do.



sure adepts are fun on insanity if you love applying singularity all day long. adepts gameplay should revolve around using all your biotics, but adepts on insaity all play exactly the same. find an enemy, hit em with singularity, follow with warp, then find the next enemy and repeat. i have a problem with enemy protections because im using the predetor and shiruken to take them down, while another class has an AR, shotgun and ammo mods. its not even comparable without enemy protections and its nowhere near comparable with. in my opinion the adept will always be weaker then any other class on insanity because biotics are virtaully disabled and your weapons are sidearms.

enemy protections > adepts.


Adepts have problems with the same abilities other classes have problems with. Throw on it's own is pretty weak (sentinel's have the same problem) unless there's a ledge nearby and shockwave is worthless (just like it's worthless on vanguards) no matter what, but their other powers (singularity, pull, warp,) are all quite useful on insanity.

They're also no more likely to be spambots than any other class in the game. They ALL spam to some degree, whether it be adrenaline rush, charge, cloak, warp, tech armor, drone, etc, etc, etc. Ability spamming is most certainly NOT an adept specific problem.

And with regards to weapons, a) you don't give pistols or SMGs the credit they deserve (they receive nice modifiers just like every other weapon) and B) you get access to ARs or shotguns any way later in the game.

#72
kstarler

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

sure adepts are fun on insanity if you love applying singularity all day long. adepts gameplay should revolve around using all your biotics, but adepts on insaity all play exactly the same. find an enemy, hit em with singularity, follow with warp, then find the next enemy and repeat. i have a problem with enemy protections because im using the predetor and shiruken to take them down, while another class has an AR, shotgun and ammo mods. its not even comparable without enemy protections and its nowhere near comparable with. in my opinion the adept will always be weaker then any other class on insanity because biotics are virtaully disabled and your weapons are sidearms.

enemy protections > adepts.

I would love to see some evidence to support your claim Spamming. Sinosleep and others have already provided ample evidence that the opposite of what you claim is true, and I personally know your estimation of adepts and Insanity to be false from my own experience playing the class from Normal difficulty (the level they were balanced for) up to Insanity difficulty (where I find that they are extremly versatile, yet challenging at the same time.) Aside from that, I have played the game through with three different Adepts now (a forth is in progress), and EACH ONE has a different build and bonus power, and each plays with enough difference that I am not utterly bored with them.  While I respect your right to have an opinion and state it on these forums, it would be nice if you actually stated a fact to back up your claims. But don't worry, I don't have any expectation that you will change your forum manner any time in the near future, or the distant future for that matter.

In the meantime, I will correct what you've written.

Adepts sure are fun on Insanity. Adept gameplay revolves around using all your biotics, which helps them all play differently. You have a problem with enemy protections because you are using only weapons to take down enemy defenses, instead of using your team's powers, as well as your own, because you just don't want to. (This line was a sentence fragment, so I have no idea what you were trying to say.) In your opinion, the adept will always be weaker then any other class on insanity because you don't know (and don't want to know) how to correctly utilize your powers and those of your squad, and instead rely on your weapons.
the truth is, Adepts > Enemy Protections. :wizard:

Anyway, Sinosleep's original post is still true. It is a MYTH that it is more effective to simply shoot enemies until they die in ME2 because powers are uselss against enemy protections and enemies have so little health that they may as well insta-die once their protections are gone. And if you don't believe it, then go watch Sinosleep's latest video. I noted at least two times where he would have most likely died from a Geth Hunter's advance if he had only relied on his weapons to kill them. I know, because I died many times in those types of situations when I was first learning to play at Insanity level difficulty. You know, before I learned how to use my powers and my squad powers correctly.

Modifié par kstarler, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:41 .


#73
The Spamming Troll

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Atmosfear3 wrote...

Thats what you have squadmates for. To make up for what you lack in skills for stripping enemy defenses.


i know i can use squad mates, i know i can play on a lower difficulty, and i know i dont even have to play the game. its too bad ME1 sunk its teeth deep into me.

sinosleep wrote...

Adepts have problems with the same
abilities other classes have problems with. Throw on it's own is pretty
weak (sentinel's have the same problem) unless there's a ledge nearby
and shockwave is worthless (just like it's worthless on vanguards) no
matter what, but their other powers (singularity, pull, warp,) are all
quite useful on insanity.

They're also no more likely to be
spambots than any other class in the game. They ALL spam to some degree,
whether it be adrenaline rush, charge, cloak, warp, tech armor, drone,
etc, etc, etc. Ability spamming is most certainly NOT an adept specific
problem.

And with regards to weapons, a) you don't give pistols
or SMGs the credit they deserve (they receive nice modifiers just like
every other weapon) and B) you get access to ARs or shotguns any way
later in the game.


if enemy protections are about 50% of enemies health, were basically using our abilities atleast 50% less often.  the only abilites that are effetive on insnaty are your signature abilities(and most likely your bonus power). i dont know what other ability your using other then those 6 powers. i think thats a bad thing, not just for adepts, but ever class, minus the soldier.

"later" in the game as in the second to lest mission? i just dont think the adept/sentinel/engineer should be stripped of decent weapons untill then. if the game is gunplay first, abilities later, then why do only those classes with abilities get crappy weapons? its like your putting a handicap, on a handicapped person.

kstarler wrote...

I would love to see some evidence to
support your claim Spamming. Sinosleep and others have already provided
ample evidence that the opposite of what you claim is true, and I
personally know your estimation of adepts and Insanity to be false from
my own experience playing the class from Normal difficulty (the level
they were balanced for) up to Insanity difficulty (where I find that
they are extremly versatile, yet challenging at the same time.) Aside
from that, I have played the game through with three different Adepts
now (a forth is in progress), and EACH ONE has a different build and
bonus power, and each plays with enough difference that I am not utterly
bored with them.  While I respect your right to have an opinion and
state it on these forums, it would be nice if you actually stated a fact
to back up your claims. But don't worry, I don't have any expectation
that you will change your forum manner any time in the near future, or
the distant future for that matter.

Anyway,
Sinosleep's original post is still true. It is a MYTH that it is more
effective to simply shoot enemies until they die in ME2 because powers
are uselss against enemy protections and enemies have so little health
that they may as well insta-die once their protections are gone. And if
you don't believe it, then go watch Sinosleep's latest video. I noted at
least two times where he would have most likely died from a Geth
Hunter's advance if he had only relied on his weapons to kill them. I
know, because I died many times in those types of situations when I was
first learning to play at Insanity level difficulty. You know, before I
learned how to use my powers and my squad powers correctly.


well, my mistake. i was under the impression that throw, slam, pull, shockwave, and dominate were useless on protected enemies, werent they?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 janvier 2011 - 04:41 .


#74
kstarler

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

well, my mistake. i was under the impression that throw, slam, pull, shockwave, and dominate were useless on protected enemies, werent they?

In fact you are mistaken about throw, slam, pull, and shockwave. They all stagger protected enemies, which can be very useful for stunning and then stripping defenses from multiple mobs. However, you are correct; dominate cannot be used on protected enemies. With that said, when you dominate an enemy, they gain a temporary barrier while fighting for you.

Modifié par kstarler, 06 janvier 2011 - 05:08 .


#75
sinosleep

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@spammingtroll

50% that you has TONS of instant counters as well as TONS of modifiers for your weapons. That's the point I've been making this whole time. It's 50% in straight numbers, but amounts to much less than that in game due to the way the game stacks the deck in your favor with regards to taking them down.

Just because a power doesn't work against protections doesn't make it at all useless.

This is me on insanity making heavy use of pull.

This is me on insanity making heavy use of slam

This is me on insanity making heavy use of cryo blast

There are exactly TWO abilties in this game that suck regardless.

Shockwave is crap cause you can't control the CC (enemies fly EVERYWHERE) and compared to other 6 sec CD abilities it just doesn't cut it

Throw is good for throwing enemies off ledges but is otherwise crap because it's based on physics damage and so even using the pull/throw combo it often won't kill your target outright.

I'm all for people disagreeing, but if all you are going to do is pollute my thread with nonsense about how by virtue of a power not working through defenses it's automatically worthless, then do me a favor and butt out of it.


With regards to the weapons, you are straight up WRONG. The carnifex is one of the most damaging weapons IN THE GAME and it's a pistol, and the smgs more than hold their own against shields. You're calling them crap without having a damned thing to base it on.

And second to last mission? LMFAO, that's a laugh. At 4 recruitment missions you get horizon, ANY 5 missions after that you get the collector ship. If you go on any side quests you can get to the collector ship without having even completed half the recruitment or loyalty missions for crying out loud.

That's yet another myth consistently posted in these forums, how the collector ship weapons are late game. They are mid game AT WORST.

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 janvier 2011 - 05:07 .