78 réponses à ce sujet

[Face of Evil]

Corker wrote...

Morrigan?  Morrigan?  No.  No no.

Ha! In fact, I had predicted that Morrigan and Alistair were going to be lovers in the AU. It was only when the DSC came out that I was proven wrong.

Corker wrote...

The hard-won victory at Denerim becomes a defeat - but it doesn't have to be a rout.

It was going to be a victory or a total rout. The Battle of Denerim was only won via the death of the Archdemon; if the Warden had not succeeded in that task, the horde would have flattened the city and utterly decimated the forces gathered there.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 05 janvier 2011 - 08:30 .

[errant_knight]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Feh, I hate how the DLC makes the Warden seem so precious. The DLC was dumb front to back and there's no point discussing its story value. Leliana is fighting in a Chantry robe for Maker's sake.

Yes. it does tend to reinforce a "Sue" stigma on the Warden, that everything collapses if they aren't present. I think all of the companions, really, could manage pretty well on their own. DSC was an insult to a group of very well written pixels.

Lol! I love that.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of enforced 'ZOMG! The PC is awesomesauce and everyone else is a nose-picking buffoon!!'

[Giggles_Manically]

Which is something that Fallout New Vegas does a lot.

Getting told of by Cass is SO funny.

[Avilia]

I'm not sure I understand why there needs to be no "warden" for the match to happen. Could just be my sleep fogged brain though.

In my mind GW Alistair is free to pursue whatever relationships he see fit to pursue. He trusts Leliana after travelling for a year (or two) and as evidenced by his 'what do you think of' chat, he thinks kindly of her.

Given the right encouragement they could easily move past friendship and into a 'relationship'. Particularly if the 'warden' decides to go back to the Grey Wardens.

Just my opinion of course and I'm sure I've missed something significant.

Modifié par Avilia, 05 janvier 2011 - 09:31 .

[maxernst]

Actually, I'm not sure if Alistair would do as well as that without the Warden--he does manage to recruit all three armies, after all and in the final battle, the real difference is the player controlling the Darkspawn instead of the A.I. Hand over Alistair's party to the player and he beats the Archdemon.



I can easily envision Alistair getting killed at Redcliffe. Think about it. Conal is the warden's dog, not his, so he wouldn't have Dog. He might very well tell Morrigan to get lost right at the start. I'm not sure he recruits Sten; hell he wasn't wild about picking up Leliana at first. He might end up going to Redcliffe with just him and Leliana and that would be pretty tough. I guess if there's only one Warden that Morrigan might try being nice to him and win him over eventually. And I don't see him making those choices, not even to kill all the mages because in the absence of the Warden, I'm guessing Wynne would assume the effective leadership role. She's the only companion he likes and trusts from the start.



As to the main topic...maybe. His initial opinion of her is that she's crazy, and I'm not sure that he'd react all that well to her revelations about her past.

[Merilsell]

Addai67 wrote...

My thoughts exactly.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Avilia wrote...

I'm not sure I understand why there needs to be no "warden" for the match to happen. Could just be my sleep fogged brain though.

In my mind GW Alistair is free to pursue whatever relationships he see fit to pursue. He trusts Leliana after travelling for a year (or two) and as evidenced by his 'what do you think of' chat, he thinks kindly of her.

Given the right encouragement they could easily move past friendship and into a 'relationship'. Particularly if the 'warden' decides to go back to the Grey Wardens.

Just my opinion of course and I'm sure I've missed something significant.

I chalk it up to group dynamics, and for the most part assume that in a DA:O world where the PC exists (male or female), their presence prevents the two from getting together for 'some reason'. Maybe they prefer to make googly eyes at the PC instead of each other. Maybe their heart-to-hearts and issues are dealt with via the PC rather than each other. etc.

Look at some of the banters. If Male PC is romancing Morrigan, Leliana snipes with Alistair about how 'evil' Morrigan is...she doesn't attempt to flirt with Alistair or anything. And if PC is romancing Zevran, Alistair goes to Leliana and gripes about Zevran being 'too much' with the clothes and the hair. He doesn't try to flirt with her. It's like 'I only have eyes for the PC' syndrome; everyone else (in the party) pales in comparison next to The Warden.

[Corker]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

 He doesn't try to flirt with her.

• Alistair: The stories I heard were a little... racier. It had to do with how a bard assassinated her target. How they were... lulled  into complacency.
• Leliana: If those stories were true, who would ever agree to entertain a bard in their court?
• Alistair: Oh, I don't know, there's a certain allure to danger, isn't there? And besides, you couldn't all be assassins, could  you? I'd take my chances. If the stories were true, that is.

I always thought he was flirting a bit here.  Although in another dialogue, he also says that she scares him sometimes, so...

[Giggles_Manically]

I thought that was over how quietly she could move.

[Corker]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I thought that was over how quietly she could move.

It starts with that but then gets back into bed.

• Alistair: Ah, yes, but I heard you often seduced your targets. They'd remember you.
• Leliana: Not if they died...
• Alistair: Oh.
• Leliana: Dying while in the company of a lovely seductress... tell me that isn't a good death.
• Alistair: I don't know if I should take you seriously... but you scare me sometimes.

[Avilia]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Avilia wrote...

I'm not sure I understand why there needs to be no "warden" for the match to happen. Could just be my sleep fogged brain though.

In my mind GW Alistair is free to pursue whatever relationships he see fit to pursue. He trusts Leliana after travelling for a year (or two) and as evidenced by his 'what do you think of' chat, he thinks kindly of her.

Given the right encouragement they could easily move past friendship and into a 'relationship'. Particularly if the 'warden' decides to go back to the Grey Wardens.

Just my opinion of course and I'm sure I've missed something significant.

I chalk it up to group dynamics, and for the most part assume that in a DA:O world where the PC exists (male or female), their presence prevents the two from getting together for 'some reason'. Maybe they prefer to make googly eyes at the PC instead of each other. Maybe their heart-to-hearts and issues are dealt with via the PC rather than each other. etc.

Look at some of the banters. If Male PC is romancing Morrigan, Leliana snipes with Alistair about how 'evil' Morrigan is...she doesn't attempt to flirt with Alistair or anything. And if PC is romancing Zevran, Alistair goes to Leliana and gripes about Zevran being 'too much' with the clothes and the hair. He doesn't try to flirt with her. It's like 'I only have eyes for the PC' syndrome; everyone else (in the party) pales in comparison next to The Warden.

I see this as a useful starting point.  They're already talking, just a few nudges and it could be more than that

[jackkel dragon]

No, you Mary Sue-tossers are all wrong! DSC *obviously* happened because Alistair forgot to finish Return to Ostagar and kill that pesky Hurlock Vanguard!


As for the topic: I actually like the Alistair/Leliana pairing, but I agree with those that believe it can't work with any other wardens around, especially if Alistair isn't in charge.

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

I hate to contribute to the off-topic DSC discussion, especially given as I don't own DSC, but I do think Alistair siding with the werewolves and the golems is somewhat understandable, even if my rationale for each seems kind of contradictory.



With the werewolves, Zathrian committed a grave injustice against them, and I can see Alistair choosing the option of retribution over reconciliation - especially since reconciliation seems impossible from his point of view. After all, once he heard what Zathrian had done, he certainly wouldn't take Witherfang's heart, would he?



Regarding the Anvil of the Void...Alistair is the absolute last Grey Warden in Ferelden. If he fails to stop the Blight, Ferelden is lost. And the Grey Wardens must be willing to do anything to stop the Blight. Even though he killed the elves over a since of justice, at least there he still got an army in the werewolves themselves. Here, following his sense of justice means throwing away an army, and a powerful one at that. His heart may be against it, but his duty as a Grey Warden demands he preserve the anvil.



Back on topic, I actually like the idea, and wouldn't have minded seeing a romance between them if you weren't attempting to romance either them. Not that I'd likely ever see it, mind you, since they're my two favorite romanceable characters in the game. But it would have been a neat addition.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The Water God wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Look at some of the banters. If Male PC is romancing Morrigan, Leliana snipes with Alistair about how 'evil' Morrigan is...she doesn't attempt to flirt with Alistair or anything. And if PC is romancing Zevran, Alistair goes to Leliana and gripes about Zevran being 'too much' with the clothes and the hair. He doesn't try to flirt with her. It's like 'I only have eyes for the PC' syndrome; everyone else (in the party) pales in comparison next to The Warden.

No doubt she can't stop checking out everything she sees. Hair convo, chantry sisters, and doesn't Alistair and Leliana have a banter where she's caught eyeing the male warden. Seems like she picks the hottest thing in the room and everything else becomes a non-sexual entity.

*laugh* Ah, the conversation they have if Leliana is romancing the Warden

* Alistair: So... this thing you and him have going? Doesn't that violate your vows?
* Leliana: What? What kind of question is that to just blurt out? What do we "have going"?
* Alistair: Yes, I'm that blind. I so totally did not see you ogling each other before.
* Leliana: He was not ogling me. Was he? Was he really ogling me?
* Alistair: Now that you say it, I'm not sure. Maybe he wasn't ogling you. I don't know... I could always ask him...
* Leliana: You can't do that! Could you? You couldn't do that...
* Alistair: I could. But I won't. Next thing you'll have me pulling his hair and passing him love letters.
* Leliana: I... just mind your own business. How inappropriate!

[Addai]

maxernst wrote...

As to the main topic...maybe. His initial opinion of her is that she's crazy, and I'm not sure that he'd react all that well to her revelations about her past.

That's what I'm thinking.  People talk about how similar they are, but ehhhh... not really.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Addai67 wrote...

maxernst wrote...

As to the main topic...maybe. His initial opinion of her is that she's crazy, and I'm not sure that he'd react all that well to her revelations about her past.

That's what I'm thinking.  People talk about how similar they are, but ehhhh... not really.

When Alistair gets to the gossip stage though, he also says he feels sorry for her (for taking her from her life in the Chantry).

When I say they're similar, I personally mean they have similar values in their beliefs of right and wrong.

[Lord_Anthonior]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

When Alistair gets to the gossip stage though, he also says he feels sorry for her (for taking her from her life in the Chantry).

When I say they're similar, I personally mean they have similar values in their beliefs of right and wrong.

Indeed, I think he says that he actually feels bad for her and that she looks sad so alistair does pay some notice to Leliana.

I agree that the have the same values and beliefs, Leliana strong enough to fight in case the ashes are defiled that's why I see her as an acceptable and even understandable pair for alistair and since alistair have no experience with the ladies not even after being recruited to the wardens, Leliana can even help in that regard as well. In Origins alistair did asked Leliana to stay and to conduct a quest about the broodmothers so he does trust and respect her skills, and I think Leliana sounds supportive after alistair's heritage is known. If it wasn't for the respective Warden to romance either of them I'd say that it wouldn't be far fetched to see them ending together eventually.

Also, I think Leliana is Fereldan but raised in Orlais so if it need be, a trace can be made to prove Leliana's nationality and loyalty to Ferelden, afterall, if it wasn't for Loghain...maybe...just maybe Maric would have end up marrying Katriel, of course we would never know for sure but the possibility was there. Leliana would've make a fine Queen since she already knows how to move around in high courts.

[Addai]

The Water God wrote...

Leliana is alot more outgoing than Alistair (Or at least she used to be.) The Romance to me feels like the classic total nerd gets hottest girl in the school story.

Except... ugh.  I have to get out of this topic.

:sick:

[wickedgoodreed]

Addai67 wrote...

maxernst wrote...
As to the main topic...maybe. His initial opinion of her is that she's crazy, and I'm not sure that he'd react all that well to her revelations about her past.

That's what I'm thinking.  People talk about how similar they are, but ehhhh... not really.

I agree. Okay, they're both nice people, but beyond that...

If  you bring both Alistair and Leliana to the Circle Tower and show some sympathy to the blood mage who asks for mercy you can get an interesting exchange.

Blood mage: But I...I would like a chance to atone for what I have done. Please, if you spare me I...I could escape and seek penance at the Chantry.
Alistair: You know they'll never take you. Harlots, murderers yees. Malificarum, oh no. (VO notes: Saracastic, a little contemptous of the Chantry)
Leliana: Your comments betray your ignorance,  Alistair. The Chantry accepts all, regardless of what they've done. (A little preachy and sanctimonious) 
Alistair: Well, it seems you're familiar with a whole other Chantry because the one I know wouldn't hesistate to shove a sword of mercy right through her heart. (A little condescending and patronizing)

Given that the blood mage is pleading for her life at their feet and that Leliana (who was once one of those "harlots/murderers" he mentions) is standing right there too his sarcastic comments seem pretty insensitive and come off as judgmental to me (even if he has a point). Alistair clearly doesn't like the chantry, and that's something Leliana is pretty sensitive about.

Also, [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie].

Modifié par wickedgoodreed, 06 janvier 2011 - 07:32 .

[Lord_Anthonior]

The Water God wrote...
Problem is she was born in Orlais, and isn't a native of Fereldan.

Not only that but Leliana is 100% commoner. And we have no idea who her father is, and I'm willing to bet that it's more likely Leliana was concieved in Orlais than Fereldan, so she could be half Orleasian for all we know. And even if she is a full blooded Fereldan I doubt that's going to change peoples minds about her being raised by those cold blooded Orleasians.

Leliana as a queen is completely impossible.

well..politics are politics so that notion is discarded and out of consideration. I just thought that she mentioned something about being from Ferelden and working for Lady Cecile or being Orlesian and working for her during the time of the Orlesian occupation, however,  her entire conversation about her past is something I can't remember very well. 

Modifié par Lord_Anthonior, 06 janvier 2011 - 08:01 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

well..politics are politics so that notion is discarded and out of consideration. I just thought that she mentioned something about being from Ferelden and working for Lady Cecile or being Orlesian and working for her during the time of the Orlesian occupation, however,  her entire conversation about her past is something I can't remember very well. 

According to Leliana (I had this convo last night during a reply), her mother is Fereldan but Leliana was born in Orlais. She also says she considers herself Fereldan, which I thought a bit odd considering she became a bard, but maybe it's something of her mother's heritage she just didn't want to let go of.