170 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

As for the video OP, I never personally liked anime (Evangelion is anime right?). They overdramatized things imo. I wouldn't want the emotional part to be done this way, imho.

[slimgrin]

Dr. Heart wrote...

I'd rather have a more artistic approach with a more emotionally involved and gut wrenching story over a bunch of explosions any day.

I think we can have both. As long as it's not bogged down by mimicking other action games, which was the case in ME2.

[Bamboozalist]

AwesomeName wrote...

Bamboozalist, I accepted a long time ago that these things are subjective and that we disagree on the clip - for you that's not enough and you want to keep this train wreck of a tangent going... Everyone here gets it already that I think it would work, and that you don't. Furthermore, they can watch that clip and decide for themselves. You constantly fixating on it after we've already said we why like or don't like it, is just beating a dead horse and steering the thread of its tracks...

Hey, you're the one who said I was wasn't looking at the clip the right way.

[Nightwriter]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I'm a little betwazzled today. Maybe you could help a sista out and tell me: is this essentially asking, would you rather have an emotional experience, or an exciting KA-POW! action one?

Rather, it is asking: Would you like to have a profound emotional experience in the inevitable KA-POW! action one?

But that is such an easy question. Do we all not want to be moved by our games?

Phaedon wrote...

Those are not opposite things, you know.

A common sentiment among gamers who dislike unnecessary juxtaposition of game elements.

I think people juxtapose them because they have been juxtaposed in the past - often we will get one, but not the other. Or we will get enough of one, but not enough of the other.

[Bamboozalist]

Nightwriter wrote...

A common sentiment among gamers who dislike unnecessary juxtaposition of game elements.

I think people juxtapose them because they have been juxtaposed in the past - often we will get one, but not the other. Or we will get enough of one, but not enough of the other.

The same can be said for movies. I think the reason that people don't think you can have a deep emotional experience AND well done action is because the common thought is to simply focus on one and hope it distracts people from the other.

I don't understand why though, because to me with out an emotional connection action has no value and is dull regardless of how good it looks. For example, I consider the lightsaber fight between Anakin and Obi-wan to be extremely boring despite the visuals.

Modifié par Bamboozalist, 07 janvier 2011 - 10:37 .

[Bamboozalist]

NewMessageN00b wrote...

I'd also think Bioware overreacted. When someone posts "it is shet" on the internet, you just take it lightly and note that it needs improvements. You're not supposed to take those comments so literally. If anyone posted at all, it meant that the combination worked. Why change the combination?

Because if you combine, gold, silver, platinum, emeralds, rubies, a bunch dumptruck full of diamonds, and a bucket of vomit it's going to be a generally good combo (that vomit can only get on so much) but if you could remove the vomit when making the sequel wouldn't you? (I AM NOT SAYING THAT ANY OF ME1'S FEATURES WERE VOMIT!)

If developers see people complaining about something they generally try to fix it. One of the biggest and most vocal complaints about a sequel will always be things that didn't get fixed.

[Nightwriter]

Bamboozalist wrote...

The same can be said for movies. I think the reason that people don't think you can have a deep emotional experience AND well done action is because the common thought is to simply focus on one and hope it distracts people from the other.

I don't understand why though, because to me with out an emotional connection action has no value and is dull regardless of how good it looks. For example, I consider the lightsaber fight between Anakin and Obi-wan to be extremely boring despite the visuals.

I have always thought that any lightsaber fight is cool, but the ones that truly stick with me are built upon some emotional battle of some kind.

I think the stigma also comes from the fact that writers who are unable to deliver good emotional entertainment will fall back on delivering lots of action entertainment. I am not sure when action became associated with cheapness, but I find it weird considering writing editors are always looking at your stuff and telling you "Action! Action! Action! Tell the story through action! Show, don't tell!"

[Bamboozalist]

Nightwriter wrote...

I think the stigma also comes from the fact that writers who are unable to deliver good emotional entertainment will fall back on delivering lots of action entertainment. I am not sure when action became associated with cheapness, but I find it weird considering writing editors are always looking at your stuff and telling you "Action! Action! Action! Tell the story through action! Show, don't tell!"

You want to show. Telling is very bad. Mass Effect has been pretty good about showing us and not telling us. Soveriegn showed us his power at the Citadel, Harbinger showed us the power of the Reapers/Collectors by having Shepard killed off at the beginning of ME1. How would you like it if ME2 started out with you waking up in the lab and simply being told about all the events that happened in the 12 minute cutscenes before that? Or think about in ME1 how little of an impact Vigil would have had if he was just sitting in a server room somewhere and we didn't get to see the ruins of the Prothean bunker with the statis pods on the walls.

The key is not showing, but making sure what you show is important. You can have emotion and explosions. In fact for explosion to be important and have any value past something blowing up, you need to have emotion.

Edit: Funky formating.

Modifié par Bamboozalist, 07 janvier 2011 - 11:47 .

[Nightwriter]

Whoa. I'm confused, Bamboozalist. The very first thing ME2 does is tell me about the Collector threat and the missing colonies without showing me at all. Since this is the driving force of the plot, I thought this was pretty bad form. It basically says, "This is what's happening, it's important, you care, that's why you're joining a terrorist organization, start recruiting people." TIM basically hands you the whole plot in the first ten minutes.

So I agree, and I've always upheld the "show, don't tell" rule, but... they do break it in a lot of ways.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 08 janvier 2011 - 12:08 .

[Phaedon]

Nightwriter wrote...

Whoa. I'm confused, Bamboozalist. The very first thing ME2 does is tell me about the Collector threat and the missing colonies without showing me at all.

Well, nope.

[Nightwriter]

Well, yes. Firstly, Shepard agrees to work with Cerberus before he's even seen Freedom's Progress. Not good. Secondly, all I see on Freedom's Progress is an empty colony. Compare this to Eden Prime, where we actually get to see everything as it's happening, making the opening big bang of the plot more forceful.

[TheNexus]

If I were you, I'd honestly just stop reading anything and everything about ME3 and just pick it up when it comes out. You'll be infinitely more pleased with it after not thinking about it than if you go into it with ridiculously high expectations.

[Phaedon]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well, yes. Firstly, Shepard agrees to work with Cerberus before he's even seen Freedom's Progress. Not good. Secondly, all I see on Freedom's Progress is an empty colony. Compare this to Eden Prime, where we actually get to see everything as it's happening, making the opening big bang of the plot more forceful.

I am pretty sure that TIM said 'Go to Freedom's Progress and see for yourself' to all 3 of my Sheps. You arrive at an empty colony and view the quarian's footage. Also, Horizon.

[Nightwriter]

Understand that I'm not trying to be unreasonable here, Phaedon. It's just that:

1. Shepard says, "If what you say is true... I'd consider helping you." This already sounds like an agreement to work with Cerberus. It's kind of startling. Why? Because even if it was true, I wouldn't consider working with Cerberus.

2. Shepard walks out of that first TIM meeting and tells Jacob, "I'm only working with Cerberus because..." like he's already agreed to it. He hasn't gone to Freedom's Progress yet.

3. Shepard tells Tali, "I'm only working with Cerberus because..." like he's already agreed to it. He hasn't even seen evidence of the threat yet.

The impression you get is that you're working with Cerberus from that very first meeting and have signed on the dotted line, and the rest is just processing the paperwork.

[Phaedon]

1. Plot device, necessary one.



2-3. He is technically working with them, Miranda and Jacob are the only squaddies that you can pick.

[Metalunatic]

I totally agree with you OP. I want a story that gives me chills becouse of its awesomeness.

[Phaedon]

DJ1107 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

As for the video OP, I never personally liked anime (Evangelion is anime right?). They overdramatized things imo. I wouldn't want the emotional part to be done this way, imho.

-has a seizure- Okay did tou just try to compare that ****-wiped show Evangelion to something good like the Mass effect series. I'm sorry if I don't get what your saying but that just sounds like the most wrong comparison in the world. Anyway for me they better go the distance with ME3 being a masterpiece.

Errr...the OP posted the video, not me.

[Nightwriter]

Phaedon wrote...

1. Plot device, necessary one.

2-3. He is technically working with them, Miranda and Jacob are the only squaddies that you can pick.

No it's not.

He is working with Cerberus, yes.

[Phaedon]

The whole Lazarus project was a necessary plot device too. How would he fight the Reapers if he still was given assignments by the Council who didn't believe him?

[Nightwriter]

I understand the Lazarus plot device, and it is handled a bit better. Whereas in the Cerberus plot device, the game forces you into working with them when you don't want to, then uses that to sever all your old relationships (like my good buddy AntiChri5 said).