161 réponses à ce sujet

[cachx]

The Smoking Man wrote...
Also, artistically, it (as in Terminator Kong, not the fetus) looks nearly identical to a boss in some old 2D sidescroller game. The name of it escapes me at the moment, though; otherwise I'd have a picture. It's been posted before in another one of these threads.

Third boss from Contra 3 the Alien Wars, I believe.

While I thought the look of the Reaper was kinda lazy, I didn't really had much issue with it, or the concept behind it.

Now I can't stop thinking that the Reapers are a homage to Chrono Trigger's Lavos (Giant, insectoid, weapon of mass destruction on the outside. And slightly humanoid alien lifeform on the inside).

[The Smoking Man]

adam_grif wrote...

"Sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

That's a non-argument. You may as well have said "they are so far beyond us that we can't understand." Ok, but then you have to admit that the writers don't understand what they were doing either, which means you've just destroyed your own position. That's not a defense!

I wouldn't have been able to suspend my disbelief about the use of "genetic paste" to build the thing even if it were magic instead of technology, which makes it even less of an argument.

cachx wrote...

Third boss from Contra 3 the Alien Wars, I believe.

Thank you.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 05 janvier 2011 - 11:54 .

[didymos1120]

kmcd5722 wrote...

On top of all the things mentioned already, it is a horrible boss fight.

I'm on Insanity Vangaurd, and I have had some frustrating moments prior to this boss. But I seriously just want to chuck my controller through the TV. That god forsaken human reaper won't die and Harbinger is so ****ing annoying. I have died so many times coming so close, I may give up. I can't stand it.

Wow, really?  That's my only real gripe with the Human-Reaper Larva: it's a pushover, even on Insanity.  You don't actually have to hit the weak points either, though it certainly helps.  Just keep chipping away at the armor, and medi-gel as often as necessary (which shouldn't be often).  When it starts doing it's "I'm gonna git u" routine....use cover.

[didymos1120]

cachx wrote...
Now I can't stop thinking that the Reapers are a homage to Chrono Trigger's Lavos (Giant, insectoid, weapon of mass destruction on the outside. And slightly humanoid alien lifeform on the inside).

That or someone in the art department is a Maiden fan:

[kmcd5722]

didymos1120 wrote...

kmcd5722 wrote...

On top of all the things mentioned already, it is a horrible boss fight.

I'm on Insanity Vangaurd, and I have had some frustrating moments prior to this boss. But I seriously just want to chuck my controller through the TV. That god forsaken human reaper won't die and Harbinger is so ****ing annoying. I have died so many times coming so close, I may give up. I can't stand it.

Wow, really?  That's my only real gripe with the Human-Reaper Larva: it's a pushover, even on Insanity.  You don't actually have to hit the weak points either, though it certainly helps.  Just keep chipping away at the armor, and medi-gel as often as necessary (which shouldn't be often).  When it starts doing it's "I'm gonna git u" routine....use cover.

I never get hit by the blast by the Reaper, the Reaper isn't hard to fight other than killing it, which is impossible for me.  I can only use CAIN once and then it drops to 45%, and it takes out about a fifth to a fourth armor on the Reaper.  I only have four medi-gel left, which really sucks.  Kasumi and Jack drop like flies, no matter how many times I get them to try to stay in cover.  Then when Harbinger keeps popping up all time knocking me out cover, shields down, then I'm torn to **** within two seconds.  I stay in cover way up top where I have a lot to work with and can't get hit at angle by the Reaper. 

[The Smoking Man]

kmcd5722 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

kmcd5722 wrote...

On top of all the things mentioned already, it is a horrible boss fight.

I'm on Insanity Vangaurd, and I have had some frustrating moments prior to this boss. But I seriously just want to chuck my controller through the TV. That god forsaken human reaper won't die and Harbinger is so ****ing annoying. I have died so many times coming so close, I may give up. I can't stand it.

Wow, really?  That's my only real gripe with the Human-Reaper Larva: it's a pushover, even on Insanity.  You don't actually have to hit the weak points either, though it certainly helps.  Just keep chipping away at the armor, and medi-gel as often as necessary (which shouldn't be often).  When it starts doing it's "I'm gonna git u" routine....use cover.

I never get hit by the blast by the Reaper, the Reaper isn't hard to fight other than killing it, which is impossible for me.  I can only use CAIN once and then it drops to 45%, and it takes out about a fifth to a fourth armor on the Reaper.  I only have four medi-gel left, which really sucks.  Kasumi and Jack drop like flies, no matter how many times I get them to try to stay in cover.  Then when Harbinger keeps popping up all time knocking me out cover, shields down, then I'm torn to **** within two seconds.  I stay in cover way up top where I have a lot to work with and can't get hit at angle by the Reaper. 

The Cain can one-shot it even on Insanity. Try aiming for the mouth (which isn't a "Weak Point", I know); that seems to make the splash hit all of the "Weak Points".

[Captain Crash]

The Smoking Man wrote...



Thank you.

Brilliant

[The Smoking Man]

All that said, I think I'm getting some good vibes from the ME3 teaser that they'll undo the villain decay seen in ME2, and even outdo Sovereign in terms of intimidation. I can only hope the final product lives up to that.

[drhys23]

i always thought they were using humans to construct it because the collectors used both organic and inorganic materials for their tech.

[Crimmsonwind]

To copy what I just typed in the other thread, not realizing this is where the action is at the moment...

I can't speak for everyone else, but my hatred of the human reaper comes from the fact that it does not look like a Reaper to me at all. It looks like a Terminator. The Reapers we see look like ships, not like skeletons. Granted the human Reaper is a "fetus," but how on earth is that supposed to "grow" into a Reaper?

I had thought about it, maybe the rest of the "ship" is built around the skeleton, but I just don't see the point of crafting what is effectively a giant half-formed human if you're just going to surround it in a giant tin can. If this is explained adequately in ME3, maybe I'll hate it less. Until then, I'm going with "Hey, skeletons tested well with people, let's make the last boss a giant skeleton."

Modifié par Crimmsonwind, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:15 .

[kmcd5722]

The Smoking Man wrote...
The Cain can one-shot it even on Insanity. Try aiming for the mouth (which isn't a "Weak Point", I know); that seems to make the splash hit all of the "Weak Points".

I will have to try that... One-shot? Really?  Hmm, well I will go back to it when my nerves are sufficiently cooled.

[The Smoking Man]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

I had thought about it, maybe the rest of the "ship" is built around the skeleton, but I just don't see the point of crafting what is effectively a giant half-formed human if you're just going to surround it in a giant tin can. If this is explained adequately in ME3, maybe I'll hate it less. Until then, I'm going with "Hey, skeletons tested well with people, let's make the last boss a giant skeleton."

Which is another reason the fetus concept would've made more sense. It would sorta just grow on its own, no need to actually manufacture Terminator parts. This wouldn't be a form worthy of spaceflight, hence constructing the "shell" around it. With the Terminator, you have to manufacture the Terminator shell, inject the magical gray/orange genetic liquid into it (how does that work, exactly?), and manufacture the Reaper "ship" shell. Why not just inject the genetic paste into the ship shell?

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:24 .

[wulf3n]

RiouHotaru wrote...
And that's what ME3 is for.

That is the most annoying argument ever!

It may work for things like the overall reapers motives and their plans etc, but for details and explanations as to how the baby reaper is created what gooifying humans is for, and why they were creating a baby reaper in the first place. should have been Explained in ME2, unless Bioware is planning on having more baby reapers in ME3 (which would be one of the most stupid ideas ever) any explanation to any of this is going to be out of place, why and how the reapers were making a baby isn't going to matter any more, because all we'll care about is stopping them.

[The Smoking Man]

kmcd5722 wrote...

The Smoking Man wrote...
The Cain can one-shot it even on Insanity. Try aiming for the mouth (which isn't a "Weak Point", I know); that seems to make the splash hit all of the "Weak Points".

I will have to try that... One-shot? Really? Hmm, well I will go back to it when my nerves are sufficiently cooled.

I know I've done it before. On Insanity, I think you have to hit the general mouth area for it to work, though. There might be some other locations you can hit and make it work. Even if it doesn't instakill it, it should take out a huge chunk of its HP. On easier difficulties, you can miss and hit, say, somewhere between its 3 eyes, and it'll one-shot it.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:36 .

[Jamin101]

im surprised in this thread at the people constantly asking what the goo does. What does the red lightning on soverign do,? How exactly are we planet scanning etc?



Complaining about it being terminator or cheesy is one thing complaining it doesnt make sense from a science point of view is rediculous if you played me1 and me2 up to the boss battle

[The Smoking Man]

Jamin101 wrote...

im surprised in this thread at the people constantly asking what the goo does. What does the red lightning on soverign do,? How exactly are we planet scanning etc?

Complaining about it being terminator or cheesy is one thing complaining it doesnt make sense from a science point of view is rediculous if you played me1 and me2 up to the boss battle

There are lots of (mostly minor) things that don't make sense in ME, but the Terminator takes nonsense to a whole new level.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:47 .

[MajFauxPas]

There were humanoid statues on Ilos from the Progenitor... I mean Membari... I... wtf is their name? The Collectors... yeah Collectors. Thy were humanoid. In ME 1 they were, anyway. And then they got their DNA scrambled so they look like... reapers? With exoskeletons? I dunno... it's be easier to believe those are power suits and there's a little humanoid inside. I mean wtf BioWare, insects, mollusks and vertebrates are just not the same family!

But then the Reapers go through all that trouble to make the humanoid Collectors look like insects, which vaguely resemble the Reaper mollusk ships--vaguely. Then they meet the humans and they are inspired, man! INSPIRED! They hastily begin construction of a shiny human idol they can drool over....

Here's the Ilos statue (Cthulhu anyone?) of what I can only imagine the Protheans looked like, since it's their homeworld:




Now that I look at it again, it's a Prothean Husk... perhaps remnants of the Protheans' cyborg evolution documented in the ME1 beacon memories?

Modifié par MajFauxPas, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:45 .

[wulf3n]

Jamin101 wrote...

im surprised in this thread at the people constantly asking what the goo does. What does the red lightning on soverign do,? How exactly are we planet scanning etc?

The Goo is essential to understanding how the reapers are created, is it wrong to ask what it's doing in the creation of a "SYNTHETIC" being?

Jamin101 wrote...
Complaining about it being terminator or cheesy is one thing complaining it doesnt make sense from a science point of view is rediculous if you played me1 and me2 up to the boss battle

It doesn't make sense from any point of view let alone scientific. just Goo = Reaper, and we're supposed to just accept it?

Modifié par wulf3n, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:51 .

[Aigyl]

Keep in mind even the Codex says the reasons behind the Human Reaper are unknown. The story behind it is not finished yet. The devs haven't forgotten about the Human Reaper, it will very likely be elaborated on in ME3 as RiouHotaru said. Mass Effect is a trilogy after all, not everything is going to be fully explained in the second Act.

To say the Human Reaper does not make sense without having played ME3 is like saying Saruman in the LOTR books does not make sense because you don't know why he's sided with Sauron exactly until Return of the King (the Palantir I think it's called - the corrupted orb thingy that doesn't make an appearance until the third book and explains how Saruman fell to the dark side).

That said I do wish they had gone with the 'organic' look from the concept art.

Modifié par Aigyl, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:03 .

[didymos1120]

wulf3n wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
And that's what ME3 is for.

That is the most annoying argument ever!

It may work for things like the overall reapers motives and their plans etc, but for details and explanations as to how the baby reaper is created what gooifying humans is for, and why they were creating a baby reaper in the first place. should have been Explained in ME2, unless Bioware is planning on having more baby reapers in ME3 (which would be one of the most stupid ideas ever) any explanation to any of this is going to be out of place, why and how the reapers were making a baby isn't going to matter any more, because all we'll care about is stopping them.

You're overlooking one very simple way to do this without it being "out of place":  we learn more about how the full-size Reapers work and/or their origins in the course of looking for ways to defeat them, and that information also happens to explain what was going on in the Collector base. 

Also, them making more Reapers is something we should expect, given that it's heavily implied that it's the main purpose of the cycle.  The destruction of galactic civilzation and subsequent "cover up" are secondary goals. Why wouldn't they make another attempt now that they've marked humanity out as prime Reaper material?  Harbinger basically says as much at the end of ME2 anyway.

Modifié par didymos1120, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:02 .

[didymos1120]

Aigyl wrote...

Keep in mind even the Codex says the reasons behind the Human Reaper are unknown. The story behind it is not finished yet. The devs haven't forgotten about the Human Reaper, it will very likely be elaborated on in ME3 as RiouHotaru said. Mass Effect is a trilogy after all, not everything is going to be fully explained in the second Act.

More importantly, Casey Hudson said so:

The only thing we've heard a lot of complaints about is the game's final boss. Were you guys happy with how that came out? Anything you would approach differently?

I've heard those criticisms, but I've also heard a lot of amazing praise of it. I think it was just the visual design of the final boss that I've heard criticism about, and even that, I think when people play Three, there will be more reasoning behind that.

Now, let the b!tching and nit-picking and over-parsing commence, because I know someone's gonna feel all offended by that.

[wulf3n]

Aigyl wrote...

Keep in mind even the Codex says the reasons behind the Human Reaper are unknown. The story behind it is not finished yet. The devs haven't forgotten about the Human Reaper, it will very likely be elaborated on in ME3 as RiouHotaru said. Mass Effect is a trilogy after all, not everything is going to be fully explained in the second Act.

Sure not everything, but at least something? i mean we know absolutely nothing about why we had to do what we did in ME2.

Things crucial to ME2 should be explained in ME2, Things crucial to the overall series, can be explained whenever.

It would be like not being told what use the conduit was to sovereigns plans in ME1, what his plans where, what Sovereign was doing there, how he got there, or what he was. Sure it could have been explained later, but it sure would have made ME1 a lot more hollow.

[edit]
At the end of ME1 i had a clear idea of what i had achieved, and why it was important, so i felt really good about myself. At the end of ME2 sure i had killed a reaper, and stopped collectors from harvesting more people, but i have no clue as to what that really meant for the galaxy, i can speculate, but it doesn't feel like i've done anything overly special because i don't know what the stakes were. They may explain what the point of it all was in ME3 but by then it will be a moot point, i'll be focusing on the events of ME3.
[/edit]

With the Lord of the Rings reference, why Saruman turned evil isn't really apart of any 1 specific book, its a part of them all, and wasn't lord of the rings supposed to be only one book? just split up because its so big? i don't know, i just heard that somewhere.

Modifié par wulf3n, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:19 .

[didymos1120]

wulf3n wrote...

It doesn't make sense from any point of view let alone scientific. just Goo = Reaper, and we're supposed to just accept it?

No, you're just supposed to accept that it has yet to be explained.  You should also realize that you're making unwarrented assumptions about what the goo was.  You're assuming it was "magical gene paste" or whatever, but that's not really supported by the game.  Nothing in particular is really supported by the game, in fact. All we know is that what eventually happened to the captive humans was to get broken down into undifferentiated slurry, and that this slurry was then used in some fashion by the baby-Reaper-making apparatus.  All we learn from EDI's analysis is that she detected organic signatures withing the decidedly inorganic superstructure.

I mean, she flat out tells you, TWICE even, that she can only begin to speculate as to what the hell's actually going on. She also emphasizes that she has no clue how many humans are required or how far along the process is.  The only context in which genetics comes up is that a certain level of diversity is one of the criteria in selecting a species for Reaper-hood, and EDI doesn't bring the subject up at all during her discussion.  At best, it's merely alluded to when she speculates that the Protheans were rejected, but even that's supposition.

Now, of course, you can choose to continue being bent out of shape about this, but it is what it is, and it was obviously done deliberately because they make a point of saying, via EDI, that "You don't know enough to figure this out right now."

Modifié par didymos1120, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:49 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Nothing wrong with the concept imo. But the execution of it was horrible I believe.



In ME1 we had a foreboding sense of doom and epic confrontation during and throughout the entire game.



In ME2 we literally got to the end and it was like *drum roll please* A human reaper!...TA DAAAA



...



TA...da?





It was just very underwhelming.



And it would have made much more sense to fight the collector general because the Reaper was in a larvae stage and couldnt fight back.



This also would have solved the ridiculous issue of being able to take down a baby reaper with my assault rifle.... -.-

[Pedro Costa]

adam_grif wrote...

In summary:

1. Why is it human shaped? Will the final reaper be like some kind of ridiculous giant robot superman that shoots lasers out of its dick, or will the human shape be covered in the standard cuttlefish design exterior? In the case of the former, it looks utterly ridiculous, and in the case of the latter it is completely redundant and unnecessary.

2. Why are they using mushed up humans as a construction material? EDI claims they are using the "essence" of humans, but this is total nonsense, philosophically and scientifically. Mushed up humans are certainly not a great construction material. Even so, why can they then not simply use raw materials that humans are made of (which are trivial to get in huge quantities and would not require wholesale kidnap and destruction of human lives to draw attention to themselves)?

Pretty much this.

edit: Not to mention Sovereign hinted that it was only tech+AI (which made it more intimidating, menacing and awe-inspiring), and simply loathed organics. Kind of a hypocrit, apparently, seeing it itself is basically a cyborg thanks to ME2.
Not only that, but it basically rendered Sovereigns claim that we couldn't possibly understand their motivations completely unsupported, and, in fact, stupid. Actually, all of Sovereigns badass dialogue became moot and nonsensical once Terminator was revealed.

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 06 janvier 2011 - 02:03 .