21 réponses à ce sujet

[Dirtyharry50]

I am coming back to Baldur's Gate after a long break and starting from scratch on what will be my first complete playthrough. Last time I think I got to around chapter five with a Paladin main and this time it is a Paladin main again. But this is about Imoen. I remember something about people would often dual class Imoen at some point to mage. I'm wondering what level is ideal to do this? Does doing this compromise her ability to be my traps person? Since this is pretty much a first play through for me and I mean to do Tales of the Sword Coast too before moving on to BG2, would I be better off keeping her a pure thief for any reason? Info on the pros and cons of this choice and level at which to make it would be most appreciated. 

[Eurypterid]

I believe most people dual her at level 6 or 7. The pros are you can get her skills up fairly high. The cons are until her mage levels exceed her Thief levels, she cannot use her Thief skills at all, so you're going to be looking at a period of time where you don't have the ability to deal with traps and locks (unless you pick up another Thief).

[Dirtyharry50]

I would like for Imoen to be able to handle the traps and locks in Durlag's Tower when we get there and not need another thief. On the other hand I think I would like her to dual to Illusionist and offset the spells that Dynaheir lacks. When I played before my party consisted of my paladin self, Imoen, Khalid and Jahiera then lastly Minsc and Dynaheir. I would like to play again with that same party. That doesn't leave me any room for a substitute Thief whilst Imoen levels up to regain her thieving skills. What to do, what to do?

[Dirtyharry50]

Looking at my party after the fact I could swear I had picked up a cleric. I think I might have lost Minsc early on but then picked up Dynaheir anyway, leaving the spot for a cleric later on who I think was Branwen but I forget now for sure.



I probably need to have a cleric don't I? So maybe I need to live without Dynaheir and Minsc in favor of a cleric and temporary thief while Imoen levels who could later be replaced by a second caster if there is another good aligned one I could pick up.

[Son of Imoen]

I don't know if it's completely necessary, I'm sure there are people who complete BG with a six man party with Jaheira (part-time druid) as the only divine caster, but having a cleric and half-a-druid (Jaheira) sure makes the going a lot easier. Especially as clerics have some handy spells Jaheira can't provide: command, silence and hold person.

If you give Imoen points in find traps only, she can be dualed even at level 4 and still be useful for disarming traps (gives her the base she had as lvl 1 plus 75 points, she can swallow a potion of perception, potion of power or potion of master thievery if needed). I usually dual her at level 5 and give her some points in pick locks as well before dualing her. That way she gets her thievery skills back after 50.000 xp, still early enough to be useful for some locks and traps you encounter halfway in the game.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 06 janvier 2011 - 11:28 .

[Dirtyharry50]

Thinking about this some more I think by the time I stopped playing last time in chapter 5 I did not have Dynaheir or Minsc but rather Branwen and Yoshiro who I think is a thief isn't he? So I could probably do the same thing and just play it by ear as to whether I keep Yoshiro once Imoen has her levels or replace him with somebody I meet in my travels and like more. I like the idea of dual classing Imoen later but how much of the first game and TotSC is left if you do it at 6 or even 7? I don't know how this works so how high could I get her traps and lock picking at 6? High enough for Durlags or is 7 needed? I guess another way of looking at this is that I could dual Imoen early and pickup a thief I keep for the entire game so I am covered for Durlag's later on.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

1. Yoshimo is a BG2 thief (bounty hunter), not a BG1 character. Still, there are a lot of thieves in BG1 to choose from, and some cleric/thief multiclasses too (and multi-/ dualclassing is the smart thing to do in BG1), so it shouldn't be too difficult to fill your party with all the clerical and thieving power you might need.

2. Imoen can dualclass to a specialized mage? That means you are playing vanilla BG1. Google for BG Tutu and BGT for cool ways to enhance your experience. Both mods allow you to play BG1 in the BG2 engine. Tutu does this by creating a separate BG1 (tutu) game, BGT imports BG1 into BG2 and turns the whole thing into one giant game. (in BGT you could actually import Imoen into BG2 the way you created/dualclassed her in BG1 - with vanilla BG1 or Tutu she'll be the way that Bioware dualcassed her)

[FrostyThundertrod]

In vanalla or tutu L5 is good to duel her, in BGT I wood what till Level 10. to get here skills high enouf to handel Late BG2 and ToB. Has well to maxamise the extra hit point that tiefs get over mages.

[Dirtyharry50]

OK I read up on BGT and tutu and decided Easytutu with the degreenifier and bg1npc mods would be very cool. So I am going to install all that tonight and start over. I hadn't gotten far yet anyway so it's no loss. Rather than roll another paladin I think I might go with a dwarf fighter/thief multiclass though. I did some reading on this too and it sounds like it would be fun to play and is a powerful combination. It also resolves my worries about all things thievery I think. I could have Imoen specialize in lockpicking and I could specialize in traps, etc. If I do this I can probably dual Imoen as early as level 4 from what I've read too right? Or else just do it at 5? I think this setup would be a lot of fun with the backstabbing element and my main character dealing with the traps, etc not to mention becoming a very capable fighter in time. Keeping in mind the long term, do I need to worry about any stats like int or whatnot for the thief to later get UAI? Is there some minimums I need to be aware of at character creation? Suggestions for a good build for a multiclassed fighter/thief would be great. Thanks for all the replies so far. I really appreciate it. I'm having fun already reading, learning and planning for the future here. Now it's installs time...

[FrostyThundertrod]

For a dwarf fighter thief

18/some thing STR

17 Dex

19 CON

8 INT

8 WIS "more helps with some saving throws"

at least 8 CHA Less then 8 and some NPC will have veray ngitive reaction to you



If you want to be a back stabber

** in longswords

** in two weppon fighting add a third soon has your able

If you want to be a fighter with thif ablitys then use any wepon you want, if this charater makes it to ToB the thif epic ablity will let it use some very powerfull wepons that normlay it could not.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

FrostyThundertrod wrote...
8 INT

For a BG2 melee character, the powergaming numbers are 5n +1, meaning 6, 11, 16 or 21. There is an enemy that drains (temporarily) 5 points of intelligence per hit. When your intelligence score reaches 0, you die.
Of course, there is a tome of intelligence in BG1. If you use that, then 10 intelligence is certainly a pretty powerful choice.

8 WIS "more helps with some saving throws"

No it doesn't.
Wisdom has no actual purpose outside of dialogues for fighters. If you're powergaming, this is a perfect attribute to minimize.
A dwarf can improve his saving throws with his constitution though.

at least 8 CHA Less then 8 and some NPC will have veray ngitive reaction to you

That's true for BG1. Fortunately there are many charismatic NPCs you might be able to persuade to join you who can then do the talking for you.
Unfortunately, getting them to join may require some charisma.

What I would suggest as weapon  choices for BG1 would be staves and bows. (long bow is better in BG1, but in BG2 you should use a short bow or melee weapons)
Staves are the best backstabbing weapons. Besides that, in BG your protagonist must not die. If you can keep him at a distance from the enemy even in melee, that's good. (and bows because in BG1, ranged combat rules supreme!)

[Dirtyharry50]

The stats discussion I understand and will try to roll my character accordingly. I've read about the powerful stave in BG2 and being able to backstab with them as well so that sounds pretty good. Should I go with ** in staves and ** in long bows then? If I do that, since points are limited, doesn't that adversely affect me later in BG2 when I want to switch to short bows? I forget now, maybe bows is just one thing when assigning points? I did a lot of googling and reading tonight and read some opinions that going with either long or short swords, and dual wield specialization was good. I know my PC can't die but on the other hand I do like him in the thick of things to some extent. I do remember from before, ranged was goodness as much as possible.

[Son of Imoen]

Just realised I made a mistake in my earlier post: levelling up a thief gains you 25 points to spend, so Imoen can get 75 points extra in the skill of your choice if you dual at level 4 and make her your secondary thief, specialising in 1 skill only. That should be enough. Even for Durlag's Tower, 100 in traps is enough (I don't know what points Imoen in the vanilla game has for starters, I never play unmodded).

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 06 janvier 2011 - 11:32 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Dirtyharry50 wrote...
I've read about the powerful stave in BG2

A Staff of Striking can be found even in BG1 (Durlag's Tower), so you should be able to get some pretty nice backstabs even in BG1.
I think it can be recharged like a wand by selling it to a merchant, but I've never tried that.

Should I go with ** in staves and ** in long bows then? If I do that, since points are limited, doesn't that adversely affect me later in BG2 when I want to switch to short bows?

Yes, of course it would affect you later (unless you used vanilla BG1, employing neither Tutu nor BGT).
Here is a list of ranged weapons available in BG1.
It's only a few points of damage difference, but of course in BG1 the enemies only have a few HP, so every point might count.
Personally, I think I'd install the Item Revisions mod and then go with Long Bows.

I did a lot of googling and reading tonight and read some opinions that going with either long or short swords, and dual wield specialization was good. I know my PC can't die but on the other hand I do like him in the thick of things to some extent. I do remember from before, ranged was goodness as much as possible.

It's true, dualwielding is pretty much the best way to rack up a lot of damage. But in BG1 you will want to stick to ranged damage, and having to go into the inventory everytime an enemy closes in on you can get a bit tiresome. (and bows get as many APR as a dualwielder would)
In fact, I once ran with a high level kensai (dualwielding + a low level archer through (SCS) BG1. The kensai wasn't really able to make more kills than the archer, and furthermore he was constantly in danger of dying.
The smart middleground would be to take up a single sword first and take a shield into your left hand. This would give you some additional protection and would also allow you to quickly switch to a ranged weapon (a sling preferably). When you reach BG2 (and once you've dumped 2 points into two weapon fighting) you can drop the shield, take up a certain Short Sword for your left hand and go to town.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Son of Imoen wrote...

Just realised I made a mistake in my earlier post: levelling up a thief gains you 25 points to spend, so Imoen can get 75 points extra in the skill of your choice if you dual at level 4 and make her your secondary thief, specialising in 1 skill only. That should be enough. Even for Durlag's Tower, 100 in traps is enough (I don't know what points Imoen in the vanilla game has for starters, I never play unmodded).

The amount of thieving points depends on whether or not you are running BG1 or BG2 engine and (if it's the BG2 engine) your thief could also have a kit (which Imoen normally doesn't).

[Son of Imoen]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
The amount of thieving points depends on whether or not you are running BG1 or BG2 engine and (if it's the BG2 engine) your thief could also have a kit (which Imoen normally doesn't).

I run the BG2 engine (Tutu).

The manuals I have (both for BG1 and BG2) state 20 points/level-up (30 at 1st level) but are notorious for their errors: in-game in Tutu (Dirtyharry50: so using the BG2 engine) I get to give 25 points/level (kitless or Swashbuckler) - 40 at 1st level. Is it 20 points (30 at 1st level) in vanilla BG1, Humanoid Taifun? (if so, I was right the 1st time, but only in case of vanilla BG1 as well as right the 2nd time, but only in case of Tutu ).

About kitted Thiefs, as HT said, it's different: Bountyhunters get 20 points to spend, Assassins 15 (source: playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php, the manuals don't specify). But Imoen can only have a kit if it's given to her by a mod or using a game editor (Shadowkeeper if it's Tutu or BGT).

p.s.: sorry about the link not working, it should link to the 'classes' (capital c) 'and Kits' page, instead of an empty 'classes and Kits' page, but the forumsoftware keeps messing up and making a c out of the C. *frustrated*

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
having to go into the inventory everytime an enemy closes in on you can get a bit tiresome

For Dirtyharry50: another good reason for going the Tutu or BGT way: the BG2 engine let's you pause while going through your inventory, so you can avoid the fight going on out of your (the player's) view, while switching weapons or putting a potion in the quickslot.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 06 janvier 2011 - 06:57 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Yep, in BG1 vanilla thieves get 30 points at level 1, and 20 points for every level up.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 06 janvier 2011 - 08:05 .

[Dirtyharry50]

I have EasyTutu and the npc banter mod installed now but haven't rolled my character yet. I'm going to do that tonight. Imoen is going to be a secondary thief and do lockpicking. My PC will do the rest of thieving and if I have enough points eventually locks too I suppose. I'll look at how many points Imoen has at level 4 and go to 5 if need be to get her 100 or close to it I think. As for melee vs ranged I know i should focus on ranged and I think I like the original suggestion of staves and bows. The only thing is I am not really sure how much I will like the way backstabbing plays in the game until I experience it. Since it takes a while to have enough skill for that I'll be committed to this character by the time i find that out but you never know until you try so I want to do this. I'm sure I can still focus on other skills with him in combat if I don't enjoy the way backstabbing plays but hopefully I will like it. It sounds like it would be pretty fun.



So with that in mind I'll take the stats advice here into account when making him and I am going to specialize in bows and staves initially. I am tempted to go short bows though so I don't need to rely on a mod in BG2 which I assume improves the odds of finding decent longbows there after reading about it? Am I wrong to be cautious about this and should just use it? I am not sure I like all the weapons being changed is the thing vs how the game was originally made.

[Dirtyharry50]

By the way, thanks so much guys for taking the time to educate me about these things. I like doing my homework before diving in as for me that makes the game much more fun over the long haul.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

IR doesn't necessarily radically change everything. Though that is possible, I was referring to the general changes:

Changing the damage that a weapon type does, reducing a bow's attacks per round but adding bonus damage as per enchantment (BG1 already had this, BG2 and Tutu remove it), etc.

This doesn't mean you should install it. In my (very personal) opinion these general changes simply look "right". The less mods you install, the less bugs you will see. It's a smart idea to go minimalistic on your semi-first run.

[Dirtyharry50]

OK, I am going to do without that mod this time at least. Thanks for that list of ranged weapons you linked earlier. I just looked that over again. I am going to go with short bows and staves for openers. I'll have other guys who can make use of the nice long bows we come upon. I'd rather do that and have the points in the right place for BG2 when I get there. Plus I notice there are a couple good short bows I can get so that'll be fine. I bookmarked that handy list for future reference so I know where to obtain such things. Time to go roll up my dwarf and get started! I'll come back and let you know how I make out there.

[Dirtyharry50]

I wound up rolling a chaotic good dwarf fighter/thief with these stats:
STR 18/68
DEX 17
CON 19
INT 11
WIS 8
CHA 10

I put all his thief points into traps to start off with 60 already. And then I set out adventuring and kept going until 2:30 in the morning here. lol

I won't post about that here to avoid spoilers but maybe I will in the other forum. I'm sure I'll have more questions and comments as I go along. Thank you guys again for taking the time to get me off to a great start tonight. I had a blast.

Modifié par Dirtyharry50, 07 janvier 2011 - 07:44 .